Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[JLB]

First off, we do not feel "sorry" for our sins, we change our mind about who Christ is. We do NOT have repentance of our sin. We have repentance of who we think Christ Is. Judas felt "sorry" for his sin, but never changed His mind about WHO the innocent man was that he betrayed.

There remaineth no more sacrifice for sin, Because Christ Paid for EVERY sin. Past present and future for EVERY man.

If any man Is saved by Grace and earned none of it , He cannot "earn his way out of Grace." He even paid for the sin of unbelief, unbelievers will get to compare their "good deeds" against the "good deed" of Christ.

The price has been paid for man's, man must confess his sin,

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

If....


JLB

 

[JLB]

What you are saying is an unsubstantiated opinion - a teaching counter to and in disagreement with the Scriptures.

More empty words...

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You do realize that at the time Hebrews was written, the recipients would have said; "Lake of Fire", huh? The "Lake of Fire" is NOT what they would have understood Hebrews 10:27's fire to mean. It's a re-definition on your part to think it is. But you probably know this already.

The "lake of fire" is a term used only within the vision in John's Revelation of Christ given 90-95 A.D, 30 years after this epistle.

On the other hand, the Hebrew people, newly converted to Christians (HIS PEOPLE), who this Epistle was written to were quite familiar with God's fire, snuffing out people. Hebrews even calling God a consuming fire. Even consuming HIS PEOPLE and HIS sacrifices when necessary.

Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is destined for people to die once, and after this, judgment, ​

Heb 10:27's "fire" means 1st death (everybody's destiny). It's illogical to think the author meant the Lake of Fire since Revelation hadn't even been written (visioned) yet.

You re-define it (Heb 10:27's fire) to mean Rev's 2nd death.

Why? Because there are no verses that speak of a saved person going to the Lake of Fire so you just pick this one out, as if it were talking about the Lake of Fire. It's clearly not.

You're not fooling anyone that's thinking this passage through, either.

You have read the gospels, haven't you?

 

[chessman]

You have read the gospels, haven't you?

Yep

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What you are saying is opinion counter to the Scriptures.

Sanctified, partakers of the Spirit turning away from the truth comes right from the scriptures. It is not counter to them.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yep

Then you are familiar with Jesus' teachings about the place of burning of the damned, right?

 

[gr8grace3]

The price has been paid for man's, man must confess his sin,

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

If....


JLB

That is rebound for the believer, we sin(been paid for) we are out of fellowship with the Lord and Not walking in the Light. We confess it(name and site it to God) and we are returned to fellowship and walking in the light. Sin again, name it and site to God to get back into fellowship.

 

[chessman]

Then you are familiar with Jesus' teachings about the place of burning of the damned, right?

Yep.

Can you quote one verse in the Gospels where Jesus says Lake of Fire, that the Hebrew's readers would have understood?

No, you can't. Yet you just said Heb 10:27 was about the Lake of Fire.

 

[jonahmano]

Hebrews 10:11 And every priest stands every day serving and offering the same sacrifices many times, which are never able to take away sins. ​

I think this is the forum talking about born-again Christians and not any priests or idol worshippers. If I'm wrong please do correct me. Please give me an example of any born-again Christians

 

[jonahmano]

Then are you agreeing with OSAS?

Yeah I do agree with OSAS on what part? yea that we are saved through grace by faith and I don't agree with "that is the end of it" rather I say that's the first step and the next step is to have the attitude of obedience to the Scriptures and not simply sit.

 

[Deborah13]

First off, we do not feel "sorry" for our sins, we change our mind about who Christ is. We do NOT have repentance of our sin. We have repentance of who we think Christ Is. Judas felt "sorry" for his sin, but never changed His mind about WHO the innocent man was that he betrayed.

There remaineth no more sacrifice for sin, Because Christ Paid for EVERY sin. Past present and future for EVERY man.

If any man Is saved by Grace and earned none of it , He cannot "earn his way out of Grace." He even paid for the sin of unbelief, unbelievers will get to compare their "good deeds" against the "good deed" of Christ.

I don't think you read the same words I did written by Adam Clarke.
"Seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God - They reject him on the ground that he was an impostor, and justly put to death."

I am certainly sorry when I sin but I do think that Judas was sorry that he had taken part in condemning an innocent man but that he did not acknowledge that Jesus was the Christ, the Messiah.

I agree with you that repentance means to "change one's mind". When we repent when we are first saved we change our minds about the Christ, who he was and what he did. We also change our mind about who we think we are and how we have been living our lives without Christ.
As one matures in the Lord we may change our minds several times about things that we should or shouldn't do, this is repentance.

There remaineth no more sacrifice for sin, Because
There is no other Savior, no other Redeemer, no other blood that will do, there is no other salvation.

That is rebound for the believer, we sin(been paid for) we are out of fellowship with the Lord and Not walking in the Light. We confess it(name and site it to God) and we are returned to fellowship and walking in the light. Sin again, name it and site to God to get back into fellowship.

Would you explain what you mean by 'out of fellowship with God'. This sounds very close to a works salvation to me. Confess your sin, back in fellowship, sin, out of fellowship, confess, in, sin, out, confess, in, sin, out........

 

[DRS81]

How a believer can turn away from the truth after they "have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit" (Hebrews 6:4 NASB) is beyond my personal understanding. I just know the Bible talks about these sanctified, partakers of the Holy Spirit who do that.

Heb 10:29 are talking about religious dudes and gals, not born again christians. It's beyond your understanding because God breaking his seal that he marked you with is not biblical. A born again christian will die knowing Jesus is God deity.

for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.


For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.



Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma. 3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:1-7


JLB

You need to address people's post and not just repeat yourself over and over.
The kingdom of God is within you when you accepted Jesus as Savior. Rom 10:9.
Please address these scriptures, I've posted them like 3-4 times now.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Matthew 12:28 - But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Matthew 13:11 - He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mark 1:15 - And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Luke 16:16 - The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

The price has been paid for man's, man must confess his sin,

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

If....


JLB

But a believer is no longer convicted of sin but of righteousness. There is something you don't understand. There are two kinds of repentance, repentance for nonbelievers and repentance for believers. When a nonbeliever repents of sin he is accepting the free gift of salvation, when a believer repents he is accepting the righteousness of God and simply drawing closer to him. Do you understand the difference JLB.

Jethro Bodine You seem to be stuck on this sanctification in Heb 10:29. Notice it says 'the blood of the covenant that sanctified them'. What is this blood of the covenant they are referring too? Is it referring to a grace covenant or animal blood? If it's referring to animal blood then it would be a religious ceremonial initiation and not based on grace. (Heb 10:29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?) Notice it says the blood OF the covenant and not BLOOD COVENANT. It says the blood OF the covenant...

Exodus 29:12 And thou shalt take of the blood of the bullock, and put it upon the horns of the altar with thy finger, and pour all the blood beside the bottom of the altar.

Exodus 29:12 Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary - http://biblehub.com/exodus/29-12.htm
29:1-37 Aaron and his sons were to be set apart for the priest's office, with ceremony and solemnity. Our Lord Jesus is the great High Priest of our profession, called of God to be so; anointed with the Spirit, whence he is called Messiah, the Christ; clothed with glory and beauty; sanctified by his own blood; made perfect, or consecrated through sufferings, Heb 2:10. All believers are spiritual priests, to offer spiritual sacrifices,

Heb 10:29 Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - http://biblehub.com/hebrews/10-29.htm
and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing; or "common thing"; putting it upon a level with the blood of a bullock, or at most counting it , "as that of another man"; as the Syriac version renders it; yea, reckoning it as unclean and abominable, as the blood of a very wicked man: this is aggravated by its being "the blood of the covenant"; of the covenant of grace, because that is ratified and confirmed by it, and the blessings of it come through it; and from sanctification by it: either of the person, the apostate himself, who was sanctified or separated from others by a visible profession of religion; having given himself up to a church, to walk with it in the ordinances of the Gospel; and having submitted to baptism, and partook of the Lord's supper, and drank of the cup, "the blood of the New Testament", or "covenant": though he did not spiritually discern the body and blood of Christ in the ordinance, but counted the bread and wine, the symbols of them, as common things; or who professed himself, and was looked upon by others, to be truly sanctified by the Spirit, and to be justified by the blood of Christ, though he was not really so: or rather the Son of God himself is meant, who was sanctified, set apart, hallowed, and consecrated, as Aaron and his sons were sanctified by the sacrifices of slain beasts, to minister in the priest's office: so Christ, when he had offered himself, and shed his precious blood, by which the covenant of grace was ratified, by the same blood he was brought again from the dead, and declared to be the Son of God with power; and being set down at God's right hand, he ever lives to make intercession, which is the other part of his priestly office he is sanctified by his own blood to accomplish. This clause, "wherewith he was sanctified", is left out in the Alexandrian copy:

SLAIN BEASTS/RELIGIOUS OFFERINGS - Lev 17

 

[Tony Hyman]

So, Calvin was incorrect about his view that true believers can't quit believing.

Where dose Calvin say true believers "cant quit believing"?Its meaning of "quit" in terms of I John 2:19 that I am refering to ,not I Timthy 4:1 which speaks of "follow decieving spirits and things taught by demons" .This brings in the concept of Cults I would think ,which I dont think was the intention of the question posed initially in this thread.

 

[Gregg]

More empty words...

If your doctrine is credible, then refute these words:

Yes, Jesus is the Life. He could not stop believing in God the Father, nor could He lose or forfeit eternal life for Himself?

My point is that Christians are inseparably joined to the LORD Jesus Christ, and because of our position in Him - neither can Christians lose or forfeit eternal life.

- - -

"For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and having been filled, you are in Him, who is the Head of all rule and authority, in whom also you were circumcised with a circumcision not made by hands, in the putting off of the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, being buried with Him in baptism, in whom also you were raised through the faith of the working of God, raising Him from among the dead." (Col 2:9-12 LITV)

"For if we have been joined together in the likeness of His death, so also shall we be in the resurrection," (Rom 6:5 LITV)

"But he being joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1Co 6:17 LITV)

"For the one that died has been justified from sin. But if we died with Christ, we believe that also we shall live with Him, knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dies no more; death no longer lords it over Him. For in that He died, He died to sin once for all; but in that He lives, He lives to God. So also you count yourselves to be truly dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Rom 6:7-11 LITV)

"If, then, you were raised with Christ, seek the things above, where Christ is sitting at the right of God; mind the things above, not the things on the earth, For you died, and your life has been hidden with Christ in God. Whenever Christ our life is revealed, then also you will be revealed with Him in glory." (Col 3:1-4 LITV).

or this post, instead of ignoring it:

(Rom 10:9 LITV)

"Because if you confess [aorist active subjunctive, 2nd person sing.] the Lord Jesus with your mouth,"
"and believe [aorist active subjunctive, 2nd person sing.] in your heart that God raised Him from the dead,"
. . . aorist active subjunctive - a condition [two here in this verse] not referencing or taking into account linear time, but rather pointing to a specific moment; it is the summary of an action [here 'confess' and 'believe'] without indicating continuation; the subjunctive use with 'ean' indicates a probable future condition, 3rd class conditional subjunctive; that future condition is given in the following phrase:

"you will be saved [future passive indicative]." - if the two prior conditions are met then what was probable will occur; the outcome of believing and confessing is guaranteed at the very moment the two prior conditions are met. There are no other conditions to negate, reverse, or influence this newly entered state of 'salvation' once it is entered into, once it is consummated. The stated outcome is salvation. Believers enter into Christ on this occasion - into the LIVING ONE, into the Resurrection and the Life, into the Firstborn of all creation.

Paul goes a little further in his account of the new birth:

- - -

(Rom 10:10 LITV)

"For with the heart one believes [present passive indicative, 3rd person] unto [eis] righteousness,"
. . . present passive indicative, 3rd person [impersonal] - faith is formed within the believer and he is declared righteous;

"and with the mouth one confesses [present passive indicative, 3rd person] unto [eis] salvation."
. . . present passive indicative, 3rd person [impersonal] - a saving knowledge of the LORD is formed within the believer and he is declared saved.

This verse is an intimate and insightful spiritual account of the very moment a believer is born again! It is the unadulterated Gospel of salvation; not merely implying continuation but unequivocally stating the perpetuity 'eternal life.'

Take the Scriptures mentioned in these two posts . . . and put up an intelligent and credible argument, or else shut down your campaign against the Gospel.



.

 

[Deborah13]

Heb 10:29 are talking about religious dudes and gals, not born again christians. It's beyond your understanding because God breaking his seal that he marked you with is not biblical. A born again christian will die knowing Jesus is God deity.

You need to address people's post and not just repeat yourself over and over.
The kingdom of God is within you when you accepted Jesus as Savior. Rom 10:9.
Please address these scriptures, I've posted them like 3-4 times now.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Matthew 12:28 - But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Matthew 13:11 - He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mark 1:15 - And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Luke 16:16 - The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

But a believer is no longer convicted of sin but of righteousness. There is something you don't understand. There are two kinds of repentance, repentance for nonbelievers and repentance for believers. When a nonbeliever repents of sin he is accepting the free gift of salvation, when a believer repents he is accepting the righteousness of God and simply drawing closer to him. Do you understand the difference JLB.

Jethro Bodine You seem to be stuck on this sanctification in Heb 10:29. Notice it says 'the blood of the covenant that sanctified them'. What is this blood of the covenant they are referring too? Is it referring to a grace covenant or animal blood? If it's referring to animal blood then it would be a religious ceremonial initiation and not based on grace. (Heb 10:29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?) Notice it says the blood OF the covenant and not BLOOD COVENANT. It says the blood OF the covenant...

Exodus 29:12 And thou shalt take of the blood of the bullock, and put it upon the horns of the altar with thy finger, and pour all the blood beside the bottom of the altar.

Exodus 29:12 Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary - http://biblehub.com/exodus/29-12.htm
29:1-37 Aaron and his sons were to be set apart for the priest's office, with ceremony and solemnity. Our Lord Jesus is the great High Priest of our profession, called of God to be so; anointed with the Spirit, whence he is called Messiah, the Christ; clothed with glory and beauty; sanctified by his own blood; made perfect, or consecrated through sufferings, Heb 2:10. All believers are spiritual priests, to offer spiritual sacrifices,

Heb 10:29 Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - http://biblehub.com/hebrews/10-29.htm
and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing; or "common thing"; putting it upon a level with the blood of a bullock, or at most counting it , "as that of another man"; as the Syriac version renders it; yea, reckoning it as unclean and abominable, as the blood of a very wicked man: this is aggravated by its being "the blood of the covenant"; of the covenant of grace, because that is ratified and confirmed by it, and the blessings of it come through it; and from sanctification by it: either of the person, the apostate himself, who was sanctified or separated from others by a visible profession of religion; having given himself up to a church, to walk with it in the ordinances of the Gospel; and having submitted to baptism, and partook of the Lord's supper, and drank of the cup, "the blood of the New Testament", or "covenant": though he did not spiritually discern the body and blood of Christ in the ordinance, but counted the bread and wine, the symbols of them, as common things; or who professed himself, and was looked upon by others, to be truly sanctified by the Spirit, and to be justified by the blood of Christ, though he was not really so: or rather the Son of God himself is meant, who was sanctified, set apart, hallowed, and consecrated, as Aaron and his sons were sanctified by the sacrifices of slain beasts, to minister in the priest's office: so Christ, when he had offered himself, and shed his precious blood, by which the covenant of grace was ratified, by the same blood he was brought again from the dead, and declared to be the Son of God with power; and being set down at God's right hand, he ever lives to make intercession, which is the other part of his priestly office he is sanctified by his own blood to accomplish. This clause, "wherewith he was sanctified", is left out in the Alexandrian copy:

SLAIN BEASTS/RELIGIOUS OFFERINGS - Lev 17

You might also look at the meaning of 'willfully' sinning in verse 26.
This is not a sin because of temptation and weakness but a deliberate sin directed at the Savior and His sacrifice. Finding His blood to be a common thing, just like any other man's.
Once again I quote Adam Clarke. I chose to quote him because he did not believe OSAS, he was not a Calvinist and yet he understood that this verse was NOT talking about sin such as we think of believers falling into sin. I think some posting here think this verse is talking about someone who deliberately commits a sin or backslides.
"This is the meaning of the apostle, and the case is that of a deliberate apostate - one who has utterly rejected Jesus Christ and his atonement, and renounced the whole Gospel system. It has nothing to do with backsliders in our common use of that term. A man may be overtaken in a fault, or he may deliberately go into sin, and yet neither renounce the Gospel, nor deny the Lord that bought him. His case is dreary and dangerous, but it is not hopeless; no case is hopeless but that of the deliberate apostate, who rejects the whole Gospel system, after having been saved by grace, or convinced of the truth of the Gospel. To him there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin; for there was but the One, Jesus, and this he has utterly rejected."

He also says this about Hebrews 6....
"Despite unto the Spirit of grace? - Hath insulted the Spirit of grace. The apostle means the Holy Spirit, whose gifts were bestowed in the first age on believers for the confirmation of the Gospel. See Hebrews 6:4-6. Wherefore, if one apostatized in the first age, after having been witness to these miraculous gifts, much more after having possessed them himself, he must, like the scribes and Pharisees, have ascribed them to evil spirits; than which a greater indignity could not be done to the Spirit of God. Macknight. This is properly the sin against the Holy Ghost, which has no forgiveness."

 

[JLB]

That is rebound for the believer, we sin(been paid for) we are out of fellowship with the Lord and Not walking in the Light. We confess it(name and site it to God) and we are returned to fellowship and walking in the light. Sin again, name it and site to God to get back into fellowship.

Is there ever repentance and overcoming the sin by which you were overcome, in your doctrinal lifestyle?


What can't be refuted by scripture is Paul's clear words to the Ephesians -


5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:1-7


...will not inherit the kingdom of God = 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.



JLB

 

[JLB]

If your doctrine is credible, then refute these words:



or this post, instead of ignoring it:



Take the Scriptures mentioned in these two posts . . . and put up an intelligent and credible argument, or else shut down your campaign against the Gospel.



.

Empty words.


Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:6-7


Paul warned of people who would deceive us about his doctrine.

He warned us not to be partakers with the sons of disobedience, by walking in disobedience, rather than walking with God.


He warned us of the wrath of God coming upon the sons of disobedience, and to not being a partaker with them.


I have a choice to listen to empty words or to what the Lord teaches us, and through Paul and the scriptures.


As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.



JLB

 

[JLB]

DRS81 said -

But a believer is no longer convicted of sin but of righteousness. There is something you don't understand. There are two kinds of repentance, repentance for nonbelievers and repentance for believers. When a nonbeliever repents of sin he is accepting the free gift of salvation, when a believer repents he is accepting the righteousness of God and simply drawing closer to him. Do you understand the difference JLB.

5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:1-7


... the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.Therefore do not be partakers with them.

What part of this verse do you not understand?

What part of Paul's warning to these Ephesian born again Christians, in saying - do not be partakers of the wrath of God.

What would cause such a thing? For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

All you can say to Paul's counsel is, Paul wasn't talking to born again Christians.

Empty words.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Yup, Non-OSAS always take the word 'believing' out of context.
A born again christian can stop believing in what God is trying to do for them,
but they will never ever ever stop believing that Jesus is God in the flesh.
The Holy Spirit has already revealed himself to them, it is finished!

Sadly, the man who mentored Billy Graham get his start as an evangelist, Charles Tempteton, later became an agnostic. Amazingly, Calvinists simply dismiss his years as an evangelist by claiming he never "really believed".

 

[FreeGrace]

Not one single person has yet to address the words of Jesus, on Judgment Day when he says the words.

Why do you say this, when I have done so? I thoroughly explained that context determines the meaning of "inheritance". When eternal life is in view, it speaks of the fact that every child of God is an heir, which Paul explained in Rom 8:17a.

However, when inheritance is based on lack of sin, or obedience, then rewards are in view, such as 1 Cor 6, Eph 5 and Gal 5.

The real fact here is that the non-OSASers have not addressed the promise of reward for behavior.