Razeontherock
Member
Hmm, now you're talking about "the fellowship of the Saints. A great topic!
And it's not just for Catholics anymore, lol
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Matters Of The Heart
- Thread starter Edward
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Hmm, now you're talking about "the fellowship of the Saints. A great topic!
And it's not just for Catholics anymore, lol
Well.
Jewish symbolism / Gentile symbolism all should be seen as moving to an ultimate reality of heart and mind. There’s no temple in the mind (New Jerusalem). Everyone should look to eternal life through the work of Jesus.
The temporal continuing life of Eden is now the eternal life through the Christ. Types and shadows help to understand, but there are ultimate realities to search for.
eddif
Razeontherock
Member
Do you remember that old song There Is A River? Well there is a river that flows through the whole Bible, Genesis to Revelation. Of course the concept is more fully developed at the end. You're talking about that river!
The cerebellum is probably the tree of life on either side of the river
Revelation 22:2 KJV
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
The cerebellum sliced open (mid section dissection) looks like a tree. There is about 150 ml of spinal / cerebral fluid in the boday at any one time, but the body makes about 250 ml a day.
So
A river flows all the time.
The heart has rivers too.
Hebrews 8:10 KJV
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
River / rivers. Information carried by nerves looks like a river system. Angels carrying messages look like rivers too.
The heart is our river system in this thread though,
Mississippi redneck
eddif
Razeontherock
Member
So, what is the heart? Did God intend for it to be like the river of inspiration that we see throughout Scripture? Does this pertain to both our hearts and minds?
An interesting thing relating to previous comments about archaic views of the mind being lower than the heart: our small intestine has more nerves (or nerve endings?) than our brain. I was really surprised when I first encountered that info so I'm surprised I don't recall all the related details; it's not something you use every day.
An interesting thing relating to previous comments about archaic views of the mind being lower than the heart: our small intestine has more nerves (or nerve endings?) than our brain. I was really surprised when I first encountered that info so I'm surprised I don't recall all the related details; it's not something you use every day.
Edward
2024 Supporter
Ezekiel 36:26
'"I'm going to give you a new heart, and I'm going to give you a new spirit within all of your deepest parts. I'll remove that rock-hard heart of yours and replace it with one that's sensitive to me.../(ISV)
I like the way that the International Standard Version puts it, and, indeed, this is true. I show a marked change in my heart from how I was before to where I am now. I think I am regaining my sensitivity. Years of television will desensitize us and actually inhibit our sensitivity to hearing the Lord and His Spirit. The more stimulus from the world, the harder it is to hear Him. So I cut out the TV. I still watch movies and videos but not like I used to. The change has been gradual, but real. I never wept during a movie! Until Passion of the Christ, that is...And now, sometimes a video will bring tears to my eyes and I relate to the people and situation and feel compassion, and it affects me.
This has to be the new heart that this scripture speaks of.
'"I'm going to give you a new heart, and I'm going to give you a new spirit within all of your deepest parts. I'll remove that rock-hard heart of yours and replace it with one that's sensitive to me.../(ISV)
I like the way that the International Standard Version puts it, and, indeed, this is true. I show a marked change in my heart from how I was before to where I am now. I think I am regaining my sensitivity. Years of television will desensitize us and actually inhibit our sensitivity to hearing the Lord and His Spirit. The more stimulus from the world, the harder it is to hear Him. So I cut out the TV. I still watch movies and videos but not like I used to. The change has been gradual, but real. I never wept during a movie! Until Passion of the Christ, that is...And now, sometimes a video will bring tears to my eyes and I relate to the people and situation and feel compassion, and it affects me.
This has to be the new heart that this scripture speaks of.
What do I listen to?:
My buddies
The Bible
A good commentary
Created nature
Sometimes all of it reasoned out with the mind of Christ ( not the carnal mind).
I Corinthians 15:52 KJV
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
IMHO there will be changes at the resurrection.
I have not at this received all the changes.
Oh I have the word in my heart, but I still tend toward a wretched man. We just have to be aware of Romans 7:25
The law in our heart convicts us of sin, but perfection awaits judgement. Oh but brother we have a new heart. Well the heart / intentions were only evil continually before the flood. We were better off at the end of the flood, but were we perfect? If changes happen at the resurrection what are the changes? If we are perfect now why church discipline?
If you see a brother overtaken in a fault? A brother?
Why do I have a natural pacemaker that looks like a crucified man? The law softens the heart, but does it make it perfect? What does teaching the resurrection is already past mean? If our heart can condemn us, has every change taken place?
LOL I still await the book being opened.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
My buddies
The Bible
A good commentary
Created nature
Sometimes all of it reasoned out with the mind of Christ ( not the carnal mind).
I Corinthians 15:52 KJV
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
IMHO there will be changes at the resurrection.
I have not at this received all the changes.
Oh I have the word in my heart, but I still tend toward a wretched man. We just have to be aware of Romans 7:25
The law in our heart convicts us of sin, but perfection awaits judgement. Oh but brother we have a new heart. Well the heart / intentions were only evil continually before the flood. We were better off at the end of the flood, but were we perfect? If changes happen at the resurrection what are the changes? If we are perfect now why church discipline?
If you see a brother overtaken in a fault? A brother?
Why do I have a natural pacemaker that looks like a crucified man? The law softens the heart, but does it make it perfect? What does teaching the resurrection is already past mean? If our heart can condemn us, has every change taken place?
LOL I still await the book being opened.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
Boy we really have a lot to discuss.
Not good:
Carnal mind
Stony heart
Flesh
Will of man
Other?
.........
Good:
One new man
Mind of Christ
Spiritual gifts
Other?
IMHO
The original man
Was a living soul and not the same as
The New Man with the (my laws) in their hearts and minds.
The law of Moses is a schoolmaster and not the ultimate reality.
So back to discussing the heart in the middle of everything. To discuss the human heart requires its interaction with a host of body parts and functions.
The new heart discussion requires the interaction with the total new man.
And I am not wanting to totally take over.
Others are making valid points.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
Not good:
Carnal mind
Stony heart
Flesh
Will of man
Other?
.........
Good:
One new man
Mind of Christ
Spiritual gifts
Other?
IMHO
The original man
Was a living soul and not the same as
The New Man with the (my laws) in their hearts and minds.
The law of Moses is a schoolmaster and not the ultimate reality.
So back to discussing the heart in the middle of everything. To discuss the human heart requires its interaction with a host of body parts and functions.
The new heart discussion requires the interaction with the total new man.
And I am not wanting to totally take over.
Others are making valid points.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
Razeontherock
Member
Yes this is why the new Covenant is better! The new creature (us) is better, closer to our final destination - although not yet perfected. What we shall be does not yet appear, but we know that whatever it is, we will be like Him!
One revelation of the Cross God gave me is it brings everyone to the heart (Love) of Jesus. The four points of the wood can represent the variety of where people start from, whereas where the two pieces of wood meet at the heart. (I realize that the way Jesus was positioned while crucified may not actually be that way, just go with it as an illustration of a larger point)
One revelation of the Cross God gave me is it brings everyone to the heart (Love) of Jesus. The four points of the wood can represent the variety of where people start from, whereas where the two pieces of wood meet at the heart. (I realize that the way Jesus was positioned while crucified may not actually be that way, just go with it as an illustration of a larger point)
Edward
2024 Supporter
A stumbling block, for me, for quite awhile. After all, I'm the (so called) smart one of the family, lol. But they say we have three voices in our head. It's became apparent to me that if I don't identify who in the heck it is talking (in my head), then I'll largely be in darkness whereas if I do discern who is talking then it becomes apparent who is talking as compared to scriptures and how it fits in with the challenge set before us.
But wait! We haven't even come to a consensus on the ID of the three voices in our head. The general consensus that I've heard the most I think, is one is our flesh mind, another is our spirit (sounds like my conscience?!) and the enemy is the third one...
I'm not 100% on that but that's what I hear the most. What do you think? Is that correct ID of the three voices?
Razeontherock
Member
Let's compare 3 voices to 3 wills. I did some reading of ECF's last night that dealt with the topic pretty thoroughly, and they say you're on the right path. I already forget how our own will is described, but let's just say it's not flattering. It's hard for me to even read. Usually I'll remember stuff even after a long sleep, (I finally got a good night's sleep, my shoulder is healing) but the clarity of our own will is already fuzzy. I'll have to see if I can find that again.
God's will is really clear and Scripture is of course the way of knowing it we can be most confident in. They were really big on Scripture itself demonstrating how crystal clear people used to be about recognizing God in their midst, while society had lost that before 400AD when they were writing.
satan's will is always questioning God's Truth. He won't attack or ridicule it to a reasonable Christian, because that would be too obvious. He hides in and among the weaknesses of our fallen nature.
God's will is really clear and Scripture is of course the way of knowing it we can be most confident in. They were really big on Scripture itself demonstrating how crystal clear people used to be about recognizing God in their midst, while society had lost that before 400AD when they were writing.
satan's will is always questioning God's Truth. He won't attack or ridicule it to a reasonable Christian, because that would be too obvious. He hides in and among the weaknesses of our fallen nature.
Razeontherock
Member
I know nothing of Midrash. (Don't they make cream for that? Lol)
Peshat
Remez
Drush
Sod
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/819698/jewish/How-Is-the-Torah-Interpreted.htm
Just one web site.
I got started hearing of this from a Jew listening to me talk. He informed me I was doing Midrash.
eddif
Remez
Drush
Sod
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/819698/jewish/How-Is-the-Torah-Interpreted.htm
Just one web site.
I got started hearing of this from a Jew listening to me talk. He informed me I was doing Midrash.
eddif
For those wondering what I am talking about:
I am not Jewish in a literal sense. Peshat
On a study of the old covenant I share certain understandings. Remez
When I start comparing old and new covenants, I move perhaps to Drush.
When I have a caught up to the 3rd heaven experience, I perhaps move to Sod.
Notice I say perhaps a few times. I am making no extreme claims of highly spiritual experiences.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
I am not Jewish in a literal sense. Peshat
On a study of the old covenant I share certain understandings. Remez
When I start comparing old and new covenants, I move perhaps to Drush.
When I have a caught up to the 3rd heaven experience, I perhaps move to Sod.
Notice I say perhaps a few times. I am making no extreme claims of highly spiritual experiences.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
Edward
2024 Supporter
It's a long arduous change that takes place in us, to change a mans heart and sanctify him unto perfection. The heart is deceitfully wicked but will convict us for sure. The heart wants one thing, but the Lord working upon it wants something else.
I think when our heart or conscience convicts us, it will also tell us what to do (or not do as the case may be). Only in our obedience to this will effect change. I've noticed that when a conscience issue arises, and that voice says, don't you do that...that the flesh (carnal mind) will start freaking out and screaming at me, doubts about why shouldn't I listen to my conscience. That's a dead giveaway who's talking there, lol. Most times listening to our conscience is the correct path to take.
Razeontherock
Member
This gets very confusing because God speaks to and deals with our conscience, and the Holy Spirit convicts us. So all these things can feel a lot like our own conscience or as you say, our own conscience convicting us.
It is precious to know when it's God!! Some people refer to this as being "sensitive to the Holy Ghost," and that's great. The Word also gives us a lot to go by ...
Whatever works! We need to be desperate before the Lord. That's not particularly popular these days, nor is it dignified. It is like a deer panting after a fresh running brook though ...
It is precious to know when it's God!! Some people refer to this as being "sensitive to the Holy Ghost," and that's great. The Word also gives us a lot to go by ...
Whatever works! We need to be desperate before the Lord. That's not particularly popular these days, nor is it dignified. It is like a deer panting after a fresh running brook though ...
Razeontherock
Member
In post #52 I mentioned reading what a Saint had to say about our will. Here it is:
our will teaches us to do everything to flatter the passions, or else it teaches us like the enemy to do good for the sake of good and not care for the Grace that is acquired by it.
More important than who it was (St Seraphim, who seems to have lived around 1800 but I can't really tell) is the context: the Parable of the 10 virgins.
our will teaches us to do everything to flatter the passions, or else it teaches us like the enemy to do good for the sake of good and not care for the Grace that is acquired by it.
More important than who it was (St Seraphim, who seems to have lived around 1800 but I can't really tell) is the context: the Parable of the 10 virgins.
Pizza
Member
No idea. I'm heartless.
