Miracles, do you believe?

[DivineNames]

Mar 5:1 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
Luk 8:26 And they arrived at the country of the Gadarenes, which is over against Galilee.

I find no fault with this ?

"Jesus and his followers crossed the Sea of Galilee and went either to Gerasa (Mark and Luke) or to Gadara (Matthew)."

 

[spirit1st]

Well ,I say ?I never been over there and about 2000 years have pasted .I do not know what was where then .May have been a lot of water ? But the point is ?We accept GODS LIVING WORD as TRUTH or reject it ?I accept it .Every WORD in it .I know the LORD and if I worry over something and pray .Soon HE will tell me? But I do not worry about those things .I think about how to please HIm and be with HIM forever more .I want to bless and love all people ,evil and righteous .

 

[DivineNames]

You know the TRUTH is ? You look for a fault with GODS living WORd .

kwag_myers virtually challenged me to find fault with God's "word".

 

[DivineNames]

Well ,I say ?I never been over there and about 2000 years have pasted .I do not know what was where then .May have been a lot of water ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_rise

 

[spirit1st]

I don"t think these people were there either ?You know ,What we all ,should seek is the NEW birth .With it ?We can call GOD FATHER and HE will call us HIS CHILDERN .Our life are so fast here .We think we live a long time?We do not .Because we do not know time as TRUTH .As you may know .once satan the demons and those who follow them ,are put in the lake of fire.Time will be no more .Also a day too the LORD is a 1000 years to us .After 6000 year or 6 days to the LORd .we have a 1000 years of rest or a sabbath day to the LORD .
Knowing HIM is everything .It starts really ,when we are born of GOD .This moment is when we know HIM as FATHER ,as HE knows us as HIS KIDS .This is what we should ALL seek 1st .Once we have this new birth .Then we can be taught by the HOLY SPIRIT ,To cause our minds to take on the thoughts of JESUS CHRIST .Then we will see the signs and wonders in our lifes and be a real reaper and sower for the KINGDOM of GOD .Being led by the HOLY SPIRIT .You see ?demons put many thoughts into our minds .we must reject them .The LORD JESUS CHRIST also puts thoughts in our minds .We must be able to understand which is which ?
I hope YOU will seek the LORD with ALL YOUR HEART and know HIm as FATHER and FRIEND FOREVER MORE .

 

[maribel]

Strange but I wasn't able to vote. It was open when I came in but I don't remember voting. Is there a way of knowing?

I would have voted the second choice because I had something happen to me like a miracle.....I should have been hit by the car but some fancy footwork and rather high and long leap saved me. Now, no way am I capable of that kind of footwork and leaping but it was so fast and furry in my head, I don't think I could convince anyone. Many people though might well believe what they experienced to the point where they might convince others. And maybe it was a miracle but only God and I need to know, at least for me.

 

[spirit1st]

We had a guest speaker where I go.He asked all who have been healed to stand .almost all the church stood .Some were on there death beds were healed .one lady had been taken to the place of the dead in the hospital .She rose up ?The doctor fell to his knees and ask the LORD too save him .
I my self have had many miracles ,yet was surprized so many others in this church had been healed .I was very happy too see this .

 

[maribel]

WOW Spirit

Did you know those people? How absolutely exciting to witness something like that. I would love to see such an event. I guess sometimes I am a bit like doubting Thomas.

 

[spirit1st]

I never knew so many had been healed ?I have had many healings and miracles .I never would tell others much ,years ago ,as I knew most would say things I would not like .But a couple of years ago ,the LORD told me to start telling ,So I have and have been called a lot of things and many have judged them in different ways .A few accept them as TRUTh and give the LORD GLORY .I GUESs these are the ones the LORD is looking for .As you may well know?The HOLY SPIRIT with in us ,must reveal to us what is TRUTh or we lean to our own understanding and pretty must reject most things .I think ?We think ,if GOD was going to reveal anything?Surly HE would tell us ?We are funny beings?I do not tell all my testamonys as some people can not understyand some things .Just as on some sites?People say JESUS CHRIST turned water into wine ,others get mad and say it was grape juice ?Many will not accept the bible as written ,they go to other books to understand and by pass the HOLY SPIRIT as if other books written by GODS knows who is right and they do not need the HOLY SPIRIT .Many argue these points and will even ban others who will not accept these other writters ?I got banned once because I said ?JESUS CHRIST took all my sins away .

 

[kwag_myers]

On the theme of miracles-


"Jesus and his followers crossed the Sea of Galilee and went either to Gerasa (Mark and Luke) or to Gadara (Matthew). They met a demoniac who was uncontrollable... (14- Matthew here as elsewhere multiplies by two) He saw Jesus, ran to him and knelt down. He - or rather the demon in him - cried out, "What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I abjure you by God, do not torment me." Jesus asked his name. He replied, "My name is legion; for we are many." There was a herd of swine near by, and the demons begged Jesus to send them into the swine. Jesus did so, "and the herd, numbering about two thousand, rushed down the steep bank into the sea, and were drowned."

"This story is strange on all counts... One of its details renders it unlikely. Gerasa is about thirty miles south-east of the sea of Galilee, and there is no other large body of water around. Matthew shifts the scene to Gadara, six miles from the sea, perhaps thinking this reduces the problem - though a six-mile leap is just as impossible as one of thirty miles."

(Mark 5:7 / Matt. 8:29 / Luke 8:28)


E.P.Sanders, The Historical Figure of Jesus



A couple of apparent contradictions to be explained, the difference in location, and the "two demoniacs" as Matthew has it. We also have an apparent geographical error.

Wow have you got this wrong. My Bible says in Matthew 8:28 "Gergesenes" which according to Strong's is, "also called Gadarenes, is assumed to have been located on the eastern shore of Lake Gennesaret". In Mark 5:7 and Luke 8:28 it says "the country of the Gadarenes" which (again quoting Strong's) "also called Gergesenes, was the capital of Peraea, situated opposite the south extremity of the Lake of Gennesaret to the south-east, but at some distance from the lake on the banks of the river Hieromax". So what Bible did you get your version from?

As for one or two men, Mark and Luke collaborated on their works (Ungers') while the Gospel of Matthew is named so because it is believed to be Matthew's work, but it cannot be proven. Seems strange that you would mention Matthew based on that. Anyway, Matthew 8:28 says, "duo (two) daimonizomai (to be under the power of a demon)". Mark 5:2 says, "anthropos (indefinitely, someone, a man, one)" and Luke 8:27, "aner (any male or used generically of a group of both men and women)". So it's Luke and Matthew who agree that it was two, and Mark says one. This is a good time to point out that Mark was not one of the twelve, so he wasn't there.

This is the difference between exegisis and eisegesis. I look at the Bible and draw my conclusions from it, you draw your conclusions and try to find a Bible verse to support your conclusion. Only this time it didn't work.

 

[kwag_myers]

Strange but I wasn't able to vote. It was open when I came in but I don't remember voting. Is there a way of knowing?

I would have voted the second choice because I had something happen to me like a miracle.....I should have been hit by the car but some fancy footwork and rather high and long leap saved me. Now, no way am I capable of that kind of footwork and leaping but it was so fast and furry in my head, I don't think I could convince anyone. Many people though might well believe what they experienced to the point where they might convince others. And maybe it was a miracle but only God and I need to know, at least for me.

I only had the poll open for one month. I never expected it to go this long, but there are a couple people who insist on arguing about miracles and trying to tell us that they don't happen ("it's all in our heads" they say). And I'm glad you're okay. Isn't God good?

 

[maribel]

Yes I think God is great.

I would be dead if I hadn't suddenly been able to move so fast and jump so high and so far. I don't know if it was a miracle but it produced in me a feeling of awe that such a thing could happen. I felt the car brush against my clothing - the proverbial brush with death.

If you wish to close the thread, are you able to do that. I am glad I had a chance to get into it.

 

[DivineNames]

So what Bible did you get your version from?

I made the source clear. As for the places in question-

http://www.jcsm.org/biblelessons/Gadarenes.htm

(attempts to explain the difficulty, whether its successful I don't know)

"Assuming all these texts are correct, the Gadarenes were from a town called Gadara. This town is situated about 5 miles southeast of the Sea of Galilee."

"The city of Gerasa, where the Gerasenes lived, is about 25 miles southeast of Gadara. If the NIV was correct, the pigs had to run about 30 miles before they could enter the water!"

So it's Luke and Matthew who agree that it was two, and Mark says one. This is a good time to point out that Mark was not one of the twelve, so he wasn't there.

This is the difference between exegisis and eisegesis. I look at the Bible and draw my conclusions from it, you draw your conclusions and try to find a Bible verse to support your conclusion. Only this time it didn't work.

But you appear to have acknowledged a contradiction. Saying something like, "Mark didn't know what he was talking about" hardly helps you mate!

 

[spirit1st]

satan and demons are doing everything and anything to cause people to doubt,and to use them to make others doubt.i DO NOT TRUST MAN OR BOOKS WRIITEN BY MAN .I DO ACCEPT THE K.J. i PUT MY WHOLE TRUST IN THE LORD and in the HOLY SPIRIT ,who will teach us anything,Once we are BORN OF GOD . Miracles are not hard for the LORD and we recieve them lots of times .
demons can cause people to see ?What is not there or believe things ,that are not true.They can even reveal them selves in different forms .All to put doubt in our minds .If you search for mistakes ?You will believe you have them .Them doubt enters in .and demons laugh at you .thinking they have you .
Mat 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
1Co 9:10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
Mat 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.



Heb 3:11 So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called Today; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end;

We allow seeds to be planted with in our hearts ,by the things we watch do and read ,Some of these things hurt us greatly .They can keep us from recieving our place at the LORDS table .
GOD has given us many things as the kingdom of GOD is power .
But we may never experiance this power if we doubt or reject TRUTH .
It is ok not to understand ,But to reject or doubt is not good .
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
So we SEE?We must put our faith to work .Steping out in faith to do the impossible .
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.I believe the bible ,the whole bible .

 

[kwag_myers]

If you wish to close the thread, are you able to do that. I am glad I had a chance to get into it.

Yeah, that's a good idea. They'll never understand what it means to walk by faith. Why people like DivineNames and BradTheImpaler lurk around here is beyond me. Just doing Satan's work for him I guess.

"The city of Gerasa, where the Gerasenes lived, is about 25 miles southeast of Gadara. If the NIV was correct, the pigs had to run about 30 miles before they could enter the water!"

They didn't run 30 miles. Matthew 8:28 says, "...when he was come to the other side...", which is KJV for "arrived" (according to Strongs), Mark 5:2 says, "...when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him...", Luke 8:27 "...when he went forth to land, there met him...". The bottom line is that Jesus had just gotten out of the boat. I don't know where you get the idea that He was in the city when the Bible is very clear on this. Maybe you should read it.

But you appear to have acknowledged a contradiction. Saying something like, "Mark didn't know what he was talking about" hardly helps you mate!

I didn't say Mark didn't know what he was talking about. I said that he wasn't there. His is a second hand account which offers a reasonable explanation for the difference. Interesting that you again would take what I said and distort it to suit your purpose.

Now that I've proven this to be a false teaching, would you like to try another, or should I close this thread?

 

[DivineNames]

I didn't say Mark didn't know what he was talking about. I said that he wasn't there. His is a second hand account which offers a reasonable explanation for the difference. Interesting that you again would take what I said and distort it to suit your purpose.

Nothing you say here denies a contradiction, denies that the "word of God" is wrong.

Whether or not it, "offers a reasonable explanation for the difference" is completely irrelevant.

If any of the Gospels were produced by eyewitnesses, then they are very poor works for it.

 

[DivineNames]

Now that I've proven this to be a false teaching, would you like to try another, or should I close this thread?

I can think of another issue that you can try and address if you like. Some of the works in the Bible attributed to St. Paul may not actually have been written by him.

Now I can't say that its impossible that God would want fake books included in the Bible, but its certainly very strange is it not?

If so much as one book in the Bible contains an element of deception like that, and the Bible is inspired by God, then God has inspired deception. If God deceives us in his Bible, then how can any of it be trusted?

 

[DivineNames]

If so much as one book in the Bible contains an element of deception like that, and the Bible is inspired by God, then God has inspired deception. If God deceives us in his Bible, then how can any of it be trusted?

Epistle to the Hebrews
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_the_Hebrews

"The epistle makes no internal claim of authorship", so I do not include this.

 

[kwag_myers]

If so much as one book in the Bible contains an element of deception like that, and the Bible is inspired by God, then God has inspired deception. If God deceives us in his Bible, then how can any of it be trusted?

How can you make a statement like that when you have yet to show "an element of deception"? At best, you have suggested that Mark only had one demonized man when there was really two. And now it's a big deception by God? That's lame.

And if the book of Hebrews had more than one author, why is that an issue? Does Hebrews state anywhere that Paul is the one and only author of the book? Do you understand that Paul dictated much of his work? This is so lame I can't believe I'm answering it. What a waste of time.

 

[DivineNames]

How can you make a statement like that when you have yet to show "an element of deception"? At best, you have suggested that Mark only had one demonized man when there was really two. And now it's a big deception by God? That's lame.

What? I think you should read that again. The claim of "deception" had nothing to do with the supposed demon possession incident.