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Most Christians are idolators

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Elysian

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Shalom,

Christians are supposed to worship the one true God. But most of them worship the things of the world - country, flag, family, wealth, status etc. Of course, they make excuses for this. They hide their idolatry behind sweet sounding words like patriotism etc.

Shameless, really, when Christians act like pagans and yet claim moral superiority.

Elysian
 
Elysian,

Actually, every person, not just Christians, are idolaters. I believe everyone has made God out to be someone He is not at some point which is a violation of the second commandment. Then there is James 2:10 if we think there are any loop holes.

James 2:10
New King James Version (NKJV)

<sup id="en-NKJV-30300" class="versenum">10</sup> For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

- Davies
 
Shalom,

Christians are supposed to worship the one true God. But most of them worship the things of the world - country, flag, family, wealth, status etc. Of course, they make excuses for this. They hide their idolatry behind sweet sounding words like patriotism etc.

Shameless, really, when Christians act like pagans and yet claim moral superiority.

Elysian
i do hope you dont sign any contract. saying a vow to be a good citizen or declaring one loyalty a nation isnt worship.

we teach that in my church. the flag and christian flag and the bible all have a pledge the kids recite.

do we not pledge that same idea to our spouses

"to have and told and in sickness and in health"

we often do that vow before god. i guess that is a sin too.
 
The point brought up here is a good reminder for us all. The truth is, this does not apply to Chrisitans only but everyone so before this thread takes a dive in the wrong direction I want to post this friendly reminder from our ToS.

2.1: This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act.
 
I honestly cannot see the connection between holding allegiance to one's country and worship.
 
I honestly cannot see the connection between holding allegiance to one's country and worship.
i used to think that was an only jw thing but since my time here i see that its not. many of the pacifists and non trinitarian hold to that.

saying to the pledge means that one will obey the laws of the land so long as they dont contradict the commands of god.

that is biblical per romans 13.
 
I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America
and to the republic for which it stands,
one nation, under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all.

Allegiance "the loyalty of a citizen to his or her government or of a subject to his or her sovereign."

I agree, in light of Romans 13, I can't see how simple allegiance to one's country is "idol worship".
 
I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America
and to the republic for which it stands,
one nation, under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all.

Allegiance "the loyalty of a citizen to his or her government or of a subject to his or her sovereign."

I agree, in light of Romans 13, I can't see how simple allegiance to one's country is "idol worship".

+1 :thumbsup
 
I don't see any connection between the pledge of allegiance and idolatry. In fact the pledge affirms that America is to be a Nation under God.

I am on an debate site where JW's and Non-trins trump about this sort of thing. As a veteran having served for ten years it's a big turnoff.
 
Shalom,

Christians are supposed to worship the one true God. But most of them worship the things of the world - country, flag, family, wealth, status etc. Of course, they make excuses for this. They hide their idolatry behind sweet sounding words like patriotism etc.

Shameless, really, when Christians act like pagans and yet claim moral superiority.

Elysian

This is true! We have no continuing country or city here...we are strangers and pilgrims here or else we are idolators like everyone else!
 
This is true! We have no continuing country or city here...we are strangers and pilgrims here or else we are idolators like everyone else!

True, true! See on this very thread how 'Christians' rush forth to defend their idolatry with various excuses. Why blame pagans when 'Christians' can't even set a good example for the rest of the world?
 
True, true! See on this very thread how 'Christians' rush forth to defend their idolatry with various excuses. Why blame pagans when 'Christians' can't even set a good example for the rest of the world?

Most Christians are indoctrinated into a Christianity that has no power today to change the world. So the world is accepted as it is...thus removing the responsibility to win the world for Christ.
 
This is true! We have no continuing country or city here...we are strangers and pilgrims here or else we are idolators like everyone else!
I disagree. I truly do. Here's why:

Paul in no way disclaimed his Roman citizenship and even raised the issue when he was about to be unlawfully scourged. As a citizen of Rome, he knew that he had rights and he exercised them:

Acts 22: 22-29 "They listened to him up to this statement, and then they raised their voices and said, “Away with such a fellow from the earth, for he should not be allowed to live!†And as they were crying out and throwing off their cloaks and tossing dust into the air, the commander ordered him to be brought into the barracks, stating that he should be examined by scourging so that he might find out the reason why they were shouting against him that way. But when they stretched him out with thongs, Paul said to the centurion who was standing by, “Is it lawful for you to scourge a man who is a Roman and uncondemned?†When the centurion heard this, he went to the commander and told him, saying, “What are you about to do? For this man is a Roman.†The commander came and said to him, “Tell me, are you a Roman?†And he said, “Yes.†The commander answered, “I acquired this citizenship with a large sum of money.†And Paul said, “But I was actually born a citizen.†Therefore those who were about to examine him immediately let go of him; and the commander also was afraid when he found out that he was a Roman, and because he had put him in chains.

If it is idolatry to claim citizenship of our earthly nation, then even Paul the Apostle, was an idolator. I don't believe that for a minute... Now, one might say that Paul was simply exercising his rights, but would refuse to show allegiance to Rome. Only that would be hypocrisy. It would be the height of hypocrisy for anyone to demand the rights of citizenship while refusing to show allegiance to one's earthly nation. Part of showing allegiance is to obey all the laws of the land, (Romans 13) as well as to "render to Caesar that which is Caesar's" which, while the letter of what Jesus is speaking of is to pay one's taxes, the spirit is also to render all that is due one's earthly government and part of what every nation expects of it's citizens is their allegiance.

The idea that patriotic citizens who are also Christians believe there is no need to "win the world for Christ" is ludicrous. Some of the most ardent workers in the harvest I know are also some of the most patriotic people I know.

Having said that...I'm bowing out of this thread, mainly because I don't like the tone. No one is more sanctified or holy than anyone else around here...we are all but sinner's saved by grace...that includes everyone. :bigfrown
 
I disagree. I truly do. Here's why:

Paul in no way disclaimed his Roman citizenship and even raised the issue when he was about to be unlawfully scourged. As a citizen of Rome, he knew that he had rights and he exercised them:

Acts 22: 22-29 "They listened to him up to this statement, and then they raised their voices and said, “Away with such a fellow from the earth, for he should not be allowed to live!†And as they were crying out and throwing off their cloaks and tossing dust into the air, the commander ordered him to be brought into the barracks, stating that he should be examined by scourging so that he might find out the reason why they were shouting against him that way. But when they stretched him out with thongs, Paul said to the centurion who was standing by, “Is it lawful for you to scourge a man who is a Roman and uncondemned?†When the centurion heard this, he went to the commander and told him, saying, “What are you about to do? For this man is a Roman.†The commander came and said to him, “Tell me, are you a Roman?†And he said, “Yes.†The commander answered, “I acquired this citizenship with a large sum of money.†And Paul said, “But I was actually born a citizen.†Therefore those who were about to examine him immediately let go of him; and the commander also was afraid when he found out that he was a Roman, and because he had put him in chains.

If it is idolatry to claim citizenship of our earthly nation, then even Paul the Apostle, was an idolator. I don't believe that for a minute... Now, one might say that Paul was simply exercising his rights, but would refuse to show allegiance to Rome. Only that would be hypocrisy. It would be the height of hypocrisy for anyone to demand the rights of citizenship while refusing to show allegiance to one's earthly nation. Part of showing allegiance is to obey all the laws of the land, (Romans 13) as well as to "render to Caesar that which is Caesar's" which, while the letter of what Jesus is speaking of is to pay one's taxes, the spirit is also to render all that is due one's earthly government and part of what every nation expects of it's citizens is their allegiance.

The idea that patriotic citizens who are also Christians believe there is no need to "win the world for Christ" is ludicrous. Some of the most ardent workers in the harvest I know are also some of the most patriotic people I know.

Having said that...I'm bowing out of this thread, mainly because I don't like the tone. No one is more sanctified or holy than anyone else around here...we are all but sinner's saved by grace...that includes everyone. :bigfrown
Well said.
 
True, true! See on this very thread how 'Christians' rush forth to defend their idolatry with various excuses. Why blame pagans when 'Christians' can't even set a good example for the rest of the world?

I hope you realize that it says 'Christian:Yes' under your name, meaning you identify yourself as a Christian, and if you don't think you have hidden idols in your heart--you are fooling yourself.
 
Is there such a thing as political gnosticism?

Part of out function here is the lighten the world by placing the correct value on things. It is just as wrong to say there is no value in the physical as it is to be compeletely materialistic. I reckon that is the basic conflict here. We are supposed to know better.
 
I live here in the USA because this is where God saw fit to have me born.

When one is born again that one is taken out of the clutches of this present world and given new life in the heavenlies. So where does the loyalty of such a one now lie?
 
I disagree. I truly do. Here's why:

Paul in no way disclaimed his Roman citizenship and even raised the issue when he was about to be unlawfully scourged. As a citizen of Rome, he knew that he had rights and he exercised them:

Acts 22: 22-29 "They listened to him up to this statement, and then they raised their voices and said, “Away with such a fellow from the earth, for he should not be allowed to live!†And as they were crying out and throwing off their cloaks and tossing dust into the air, the commander ordered him to be brought into the barracks, stating that he should be examined by scourging so that he might find out the reason why they were shouting against him that way. But when they stretched him out with thongs, Paul said to the centurion who was standing by, “Is it lawful for you to scourge a man who is a Roman and uncondemned?†When the centurion heard this, he went to the commander and told him, saying, “What are you about to do? For this man is a Roman.†The commander came and said to him, “Tell me, are you a Roman?†And he said, “Yes.†The commander answered, “I acquired this citizenship with a large sum of money.†And Paul said, “But I was actually born a citizen.†Therefore those who were about to examine him immediately let go of him; and the commander also was afraid when he found out that he was a Roman, and because he had put him in chains.

If it is idolatry to claim citizenship of our earthly nation, then even Paul the Apostle, was an idolator. I don't believe that for a minute... Now, one might say that Paul was simply exercising his rights, but would refuse to show allegiance to Rome. Only that would be hypocrisy. It would be the height of hypocrisy for anyone to demand the rights of citizenship while refusing to show allegiance to one's earthly nation. Part of showing allegiance is to obey all the laws of the land, (Romans 13) as well as to "render to Caesar that which is Caesar's" which, while the letter of what Jesus is speaking of is to pay one's taxes, the spirit is also to render all that is due one's earthly government and part of what every nation expects of it's citizens is their allegiance.

The idea that patriotic citizens who are also Christians believe there is no need to "win the world for Christ" is ludicrous. Some of the most ardent workers in the harvest I know are also some of the most patriotic people I know.

Having said that...I'm bowing out of this thread, mainly because I don't like the tone. No one is more sanctified or holy than anyone else around here...we are all but sinner's saved by grace...that includes everyone. :bigfrown

The tactic that Paul used was to be wise in preaching the gospel. He was not claiming to be a loyal follower of Caesar. He certainly didn't fight against Rome's enemies in the name of Rome. I think people can be too simplistic when viewing what people did in the bible.
 
When one is born again that one is taken out of the clutches of this present world and given new life in the heavenlies. So where does the loyalty of such a one now lie?
Both.

Paul was 'born again' on the road to Damascus, long before he wrote of being a Roman citizen, and translation into the heavenlies.
 
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