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walter

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I wasn't sure where to post this so I decided it would be here.

I have a bit of a problem with exegesis and such.

I see people spending so much time on disecting the Bible to determine its' meaning and I wonder if they ever just listen to God to learn the meaning.
I have been in and out of church most of my life and been through some really rough times around very rough people. I had a besetting sin that was monumental. I hardly ever read the Bible when I was out of church but God still worked on me. The verses I had read often would often come back to me and understood them in new and more proper ways.
I have a problem with people (not you here at this forum. This post is not a new train of thought for me)telling me that the bible really says this or that, based on things I can't verify unless I learn ancient Aramaic, Greek, Hebrew or the like. I cannot verify what they are telling me without putting my faith in them or their sources.
I would much rather listen to God because i know He has the power to teach me anything I need to know if I really want to accept it.
I have had people in the past tell me that I can't be like this but it has worked very well for me so far. I came back to God soley on His urging even though I had a deep seated resentment toward the church.
I distrust any book, preacher,person or organization that presumes to tell me what the Bible really says.
Sometimes these entities turn out to be correct but I let God show me if they are or not.

I have explained my attitude so I would like your feedback. I have seen this place is friendly and sincere so I am not looking to start a fight. As God said: Come, let us reason together! :)
 
Hi Walter and welcome!

Everyone reads the Bible with a particular bias. Nobody is exempt from this fact and we've all adopted a way of interpreting the word of God in line with said bias.

There are good ways to read scripture, and there are bad ways to read scripture. Personally, I lean more on the practical side with a historical background. In other words, I lean towards action items that make a difference now, today and when I try to interpret how this looks, I try to look at the historical context in which the words were originally written to get an idea of the original idea being conveyed.

Grace and Peace!
 
Thanks :)

I need to say I don't totally discount history and the like. Flavius Josephus wrote of a real historical Jesus and I have to say that that bolstered my faith at a time when I was really questioning.

I'll have to tell you an interesting story about the voice of God sometime though. That really got my attention! :pray
 
I believe what Jeff is saying is, he looks at the historical context (what it meant to the original readers) and sees how he can practically apply it today. Also remember, the "church" (ekklesia) is the body of true believers both in and out of 'church buildings' and their respective congregations.
 
I hear you Walter. You have to use your own discernment when listening to others point of view-in every part of life, really :yes

When I read my Bible and pray, I understand what God wants for me. You have to do that for yourself. When a Pastor preaches, it's up to you to go home and reread the verses. That's how I get my understanding. We all know there are people out there with wacky beliefs. So, if something they say is not backed up by scripture (which wackos do too) then that should ring a bell. If it doesn't sit well with your reading of the Bible-that should ring a bell. In the end, we all need leaders. So, if you find a church in which the preacher teaches what is most important to you and the lesson rings true with the Holy Bible, continue to learn from that person-always keeping in mind that God is the final authority.

Hope that helps :)
 
Yeah, what Vic said :biglol

You'd be proud of me Vic. I was typing an reply to walter, talking on the phone and double checking a model group in AD all at the same time... I think I deleted my last unfinished paragraph, condensed it and just posted :biggrin Thanks for knowing me so well! :lol

Well, now it's off to church! Everyone have a great evening :)

Jeff
 
Fembot said:
I hear you Walter. You have to use your own discernment when listening to others point of view-in every part of life, really :yes

When I read my Bible and pray, I understand what God wants for me. You have to do that for yourself. When a Pastor preaches, it's up to you to go home and reread the verses. That's how I get my understanding. We all know there are people out there with wacky beliefs. So, if something they say is not backed up by scripture (which wackos do too) then that should ring a bell. If it doesn't sit well with your reading of the Bible-that should ring a bell. In the end, we all need leaders. So, if you find a church in which the preacher teaches what is most important to you and the lesson rings true with the Holy Bible, continue to learn from that person-always keeping in mind that God is the final authority.

Hope that helps :)

I agree and thank you. I will say though that I don't agree with us all needing leaders, worldly ones anyway. Some of us are leaders and when we need to be led Jesus is all the leader we need.
 
And some are wolves.

I hope I didn't make you think I was disrespectful to you because believe me, that was the furthest thought from my mind. You are most correct. Respect to all.

I apologize if you felt that way. :)
 
Walter, I agree with you. I have had some great chats and comments on different threads and then..... someone starts hitting the greek meanings behind the words. They try to explain to me the meaning from their frame of reference and sometimes I haven't a clue what they are trying to say.and I loose interest. I think reading your bible in your own language and praying about what you have read and listening to God are the best options. I listen to peoples opinions and if they make sense according to what I have read in the Bible I will agree with them.
A funny analagy is a computer sales person rambling off to someone who wants to buy a computer. They mention all the latest features and use fancy words to impress. The person buying the computer is clueless, he just wants a computer to type letters. I think its important that we understand that christianity is a relationship with God. He loved us first. If something confuses you, pray about it, but remember to keep your relationship with God first.
I am also fortunate to belong to a great cell group where you can speak your mind and offer your opinion without be looked apon badly. Its not a bad thing to try and belong to some sort of fellowship group.
 
Ed,
I agree. I would like to find some kind of fellowship but I have found so many times in the past that many, and I do mean many, people want to convince me that faith in God is some complicated thing. I know in my heart it isn't.
I've also encountered time and again people who presume to tell me the "truth" when it is so obvious they have a very weak grasp of the basics of how to obey God.
I'll give you an example: I was hanging around with this one preacher. We went to an indoor mall and as we were approaching the door there was a man washing the glass on the door. Fine. We went in, did our business, and on the way out the preacher put both of his hands smack dab on the glass and pushed the door open. I said "Didn't you see that guy cleaning the glass? Why did you put your hand prints all over his work?" He just shrugged and said "It'll give him something to do."
I immediately lost respect for him and anything he would think to "teach" me.
This may seem like a little thing but it told me a lot about him and later my concerns were bourne out.

Love you neighbor isn't that hard is it?
 
I understand where both of you are coming from, but for me, and no, I don't dabble in the greek very often, but understanding the greek or hebrew can often bring about a fuller understanding of what the original writer was trying to express.

Take the word pleasure for example. We can use these two verses for comparison.

2 Peter 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to revel in the daytime. Spots they are and blemishes, reveling themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

In this verse, pleasure in the greek is the word hedone. The word hedone is now translated into english as Hedonism. However, in the greek world, Hedone was a greek goddess of love and sexual pleasure.
http://www.theoi.com/Daimon/Hedone.html
HEDONE was the spirit (daimona) of pleasure, enjoyment and delight. As a daughter of Eros (Love) she was associated more specifically with sensual pleasure. Her opposite number were the Algea (Pains). The Romans named her Voluptas.

When Peter wrote those words, he was talking about somebody who thought it erotic to do what Peter mentioned in verse 10 and this was in union with a pagan goddess.

The second verse is this one.

James 5:5 You have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; you have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.

Again, we see the word pleasure, but this time in the greek it's truphao.
Simply put, this is living in the lap of luxury having all of ones needs met... In other words, it's pretty easy to rely on ones self when ones needs are met. It's easy to become greedy and corrupt.

Knowing the original greek is not necessary to understand either passage, but it certainly does richen them up for those who are interested :)
 
True, and I agree. My feeling is that many indulge in the "deeper" study of the word and miss the basic, pure message.
While it is true that we don't need to know these definitions to understand the passages well enough to get the idea added knowledge is always good as long as it is correct.

As far as the sensual pleasure reference goes, even if I am not aware of that aspect of the meaning I get the idea that God disapproves of selfish pleasure especially in His house, whether gluttonous or sexual. I know that anything worse than the best of the meaning is automatically included.
 
Fembot said:
When a Pastor preaches, it's up to you to go home and reread the verses. That's how I get my understanding. We all know there are people out there with wacky beliefs. So, if something they say is not backed up by scripture (which wackos do too) then that should ring a bell.

I've seen my fair share of wackos, and I've even been a bit wacko myself a time or two :lol

However, and not always, when we simply go and read a verse, it's sometimes the easiest way to come up with some wacky belief, especially when we say, "this verse says this, and that verse says that, so... I'll conclude xy and z.

I think that this is different than a wolf. A wolf knowingly deceives, while the rest of us are just trying to figure it out along our journey ;)
 
... Take the word pleasure for example. We can use these two verses for comparison....

... Knowing the original greek is not necessary to understand either passage, but it certainly does richen them up for those who are interested
Now I'm proud of you Jeff. :yes
 
Stovebolts I enjoy the way you put it. I think a lot can be learnt from knowing the Hebrew and the Greek, and may be enjoyable aswell.The problem it sometimes gets shoved in your face,instead of being explained, doing more harm than good. and Walter thanks for that story about something that is so simple but that pastors actions showed his heart. I would also not respect what he said behind the pulpit.
 
walter said:
And some are wolves.

I hope I didn't make you think I was disrespectful to you because believe me, that was the furthest thought from my mind. You are most correct. Respect to all.

I apologize if you felt that way. :)

Not at all. :) I was just reiterating the fact that we need each other. One may be led by Christ alone. Then one day He may send a teacher, if you aren't open to knowing when someone is God sent, how will you hear him?
 
walter said:
Ed,
I agree. I would like to find some kind of fellowship but I have found so many times in the past that many, and I do mean many, people want to convince me that faith in God is some complicated thing. I know in my heart it isn't.
I've also encountered time and again people who presume to tell me the "truth" when it is so obvious they have a very weak grasp of the basics of how to obey God.
I'll give you an example: I was hanging around with this one preacher. We went to an indoor mall and as we were approaching the door there was a man washing the glass on the door. Fine. We went in, did our business, and on the way out the preacher put both of his hands smack dab on the glass and pushed the door open. I said "Didn't you see that guy cleaning the glass? Why did you put your hand prints all over his work?" He just shrugged and said "It'll give him something to do."
I immediately lost respect for him and anything he would think to "teach" me.
This may seem like a little thing but it told me a lot about him and later my concerns were bourne out.

Love you neighbor isn't that hard is it?


I've got a clearer view of what you mean, now Walter. I am about works myself. But remember that we all sin. The pastor may not have been thinking on a good level that day or maybe that's one of his faults. Doesn't mean that he does everything carelessly. I don't know the man, so I can't judge him.
I would have lost a sense of obligation as well. Who wants to be devoted to someone they don't admire?

Separating your ill feelings sometimes let's you see more about the person. Don't completely run away from them, until you're certain they have not exhibited a true Christian spirit.
 
walter said:
I said "Didn't you see that guy cleaning the glass? Why did you put your hand prints all over his work?" He just shrugged and said "It'll give him something to do."

This reminds me of when I was living in L.A. I had a lot of Hispanic friends and it always seemed that when we got into the Hispanic neighborhoods they were always heavy laden with trash. Well, one day while riding in my car, my friend Juan (pronounced wan) threw his trash out of the car window. I was upset and asked why he did that. Well, he responded in much the same way as your preacher friend...

I've been to Mexico several times, and I've always noticed how dirty some parts of town were. Well, according to many of my Hispanic friends, including Juan, they are brought up to throw their trash into the road so that it will give somebody a job to clean it up. For them, littering is the right thing to do... It's just part of their culture and loving your neighbor may just be lived out by providing a job for him.

:shrug
 
Hmmmm, I didn't look at it that way. But makes alot of sense Stove!

But at what point do people not listen to the world but their own senses?
I may not know everything, but I know what feels right. It would not feel right for me to ruin a job someone had just finished. The man already had a job-to clean the mall. Why make it harder?

What if that man loses his job because his work is never appreciated and seen for longer than a few minutes?
If he thought the doors were clean, left work then his superiors saw the dirty door-they might wonder what/if anything he does all day.
 
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