My Love for Joyce Meyer

[Dusty]

Hi Mike ... I suppose if you want to clasify her as that , maybe so , but I have never heard her go to the extreme that some go and I am not going to mention names . She did mention all the charities she supports when I saw her here at this convention . And I must say they are all very needy causes .

Bottom line whoever ministers to you and I guess I am saying that I am not a follower of any one except Jesus Christ but I have read a lot of her books and been blessed . In fact I am reading one now called " How to hear from God"

I do not get caught up in all this prosperity theory . I do believe God blesses me so that I can bless others and as I am faithful to Him , He is faithful to me and He probably knows I could not handle a lot of money anyways .

I am joyful and happy the way I am . I have to account for me not others.

 

[Lewis]

God does prosper some people, show me in the Bible where she is wrong at ?

 

[Mike]

Hi Mike ... I suppose if you want to clasify her as that , maybe so , but I have never heard her go to the extreme that some go and I am not going to mention names . She did mention all the charities she supports when I saw her here at this convention . And I must say they are all very needy causes .

Bottom line whoever ministers to you and I guess I am saying that I am not a follower of any one except Jesus Christ but I have read a lot of her books and been blessed . In fact I am reading one now called " How to hear from God"

I do not get caught up in all this prosperity theory . I do believe God blesses me so that I can bless others and as I am faithful to Him , He is faithful to me and He probably knows I could not handle a lot of money anyways .

I am joyful and happy the way I am . I have to account for me not others.

Hey, Dusty in To-ron-to!

I'm not commenting on her wealth or what she does with her money. I'm talking about the message that, if your faith is strong enough, you will be rewarded with material wealth here on earth. Some extremist take this further than her, much further, from what I can tell. They actually say that God has no choice but to honor the prayers for anything they desire if their faith is strong enough. "Name it - Claim it"

While she doesn't go that far (that I know), she does seem to have the theology that preaches material rewards here. I can't reconcile that with scripture. Spiritual rewards, yes. Material rewards, maybe, but not necessarily.

Phil 4
"<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29437">10</sup>I rejoice greatly in the Lord that at last you have renewed your concern for me. Indeed, you have been concerned, but you had no opportunity to show it. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29438">11</sup>I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29439">12</sup>I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29440">13</sup>I can do everything through him who gives me strength. "

I'm not one to put guilt trips on people for having wealth, as long as they aren't hoarding it. Okay, so Jason says she has a $10 million. I'm not sure if that's true, but I'll assume it is. If someone has a $50 bicycle, is that okay. Most would say "yes". So where is the line drawn between $50 and $10mm and who is to draw it? Last I read, Solomon was pretty wealthy. But that's not my point. If someone is blessed and shares their blessings, how poor do they need to make themselves before their lifestyle is "Godly" in someone's eyes?

But even that's not my point. I believe she preaches the doctrine that faith strong enough will yield material blessings here while we are in the flesh. If I'm wrong, let me know. That's why I asked in my last post, but I think you may have misunderstood my "prosperity preacher" comment.

 

[Dusty]

Hey Mike from Mich- i- gan ,

I'm not commenting on her wealth or what she does with her money. I'm talking about the message that, if your faith is strong enough, you will be rewarded with material wealth here on earth. Some extremist take this further than her, much further, from what I can tell. They actually say that God has no choice but to honor the prayers for anything they desire if their faith is strong enough. "Name it - Claim it"

Yah , I know that too and the "name it claim it " does no sit well with me either and sorry to say but some of my family really believe that and when I visit them ( because they watch all the Detroit channels ) I am constantly debating them to no avail .


While she doesn't go that far (that I know), she does seem to have the theology that preaches material rewards here. I can't reconcile that with scripture. Spiritual rewards, yes. Material rewards, maybe, but not necessarily.

I don't think I have ever heard her preaching along those lines but like I said I don't follow her religously . I have followed more the spiritual rewards that she teaches on and I guess am selective in what I listen to or read. So I guess I would not be a good one to ask .

 

[xAmbientxCatalystx]

Joyce Meyer in all of her prosperity nonsense, also teaches that we are "little gods".

She also gets into this whole thing about Jesus going to hell for us, being tormented by demons, and all this really odd theology.

She claims in her book that Jesus went to hell on our behalf to pay the price for our sins.

Quoted from her book:

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]"There is no choice of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell."

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica] "Jesus went to hell for you."

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]"He paid the price there."

Now correct me if I'm wrong but does the bible not teach the Jesus paid the price for our sins on the cross? Not in hell. Jesus didn't go to hell for us, the bible teaches that he went into prison to witness to those who were there. (1 Peter 3:18-20)

If Jesus went to hell to finish paying for our sins then what on earth did "It is Finished" mean? Nothing.

Be careful little children what you hear, for there are many preaching false doctrine, there are wolves in sheep's clothing lurking all around us, I say this not to discourage anyone, but to enlighten them. May God bless you.
[/FONT]

 

[Nick]

I've seen Joel Osteen preach, and he is extreme prosperity gospel. I have heard about, but not seen Joyce Meyer preach, so I can't make a real comment yet. Next week when my internet gets fast again I'll check her out on youtube. But at the moment all I have to say is this: yes, there are preachers who have different styles, and that is fine, but if a preacher preaches the prosperity gospel, then they are a false teacher and need to be exposed and rebuked, for everyone's sake. We are not to be soft on false preachers, and people like Joyce Meyer especially, as she has many followers.

I've gotta say, that 10 million dollars she spent on jets, that's 10 million dollars she could have given to kids in Africa, or getting Bibles into China or sponsoring missionaries. I don't care how many millions she does give, but that 10 million that she didn't give speaks volumes about her character IMO.

 

[sherri2]

I know how much people like to exaggerate which is why I didn't read those links, but one thing I would like to say about big evangelists and personal jets, is - I once heard a guy who had one speak and say he only bought it because he sat down one day (or his accountant did) and they worked out how much he spent in air travel per year. That means him and the entourage that he travelled with as a well known speaker. He realised it was cheaper to buy a jet then to keep on spending money on air tickets. The jet could always be resold later, whereas ticket money is like rent money, gone for good.

Most big names travel with their staff and often families as well. Thats around ten people. Considering that they do so many conferences they seem to fly on average between 1-5 times a week. Often overseas.

So if you get 10 people flying say an average of 3 times a week with one international flight. What would that be? Maybe $30,000. Now if you times that by 52, you get $1,560,000.

Joyce Meyer has a very big ministry. That figure can obviously fluctuate according to family and staff and where they're going at any given time - depending on how big their ministry is. But isn't it better to keep that money in live capital rather then sending it all down the drain on ticket expenses.

That was this mans explanation and it sounded completely feasible to me.

I like Joyce Meyer and she strikes me as being a very honest and genuine person. I don't like slagging matchs against other christians and so called 'exposes' if they can't be validly proven. A sentence on a page does not prove anything. A prison sentence does. She has been investigated, if she was doing anything really dodgy she'd be in prison.

As I said, I have big issues with 'celebrity preachers'. That's ungodly, and writes off most of the christian channel as far as I'm concerned. But people are people. I've heard her speak and seen her dealing with people in real life and that's enough for me.

If I felt led to give her money, I would.

 

[jasoncran]

I know how much people like to exaggerate which is why I didn't read those links, but one thing I would like to say about big evangelists and personal jets, is - I once heard a guy who had one speak and say he only bought it because he sat down one day (or his accountant did) and they worked out how much he spent in air travel per year. That means him and the entourage that he travelled with as a well known speaker. He realised it was cheaper to buy a jet then to keep on spending money on air tickets. The jet could always be resold later, whereas ticket money is like rent money, gone for good.

Most big names travel with their staff and often families as well. Thats around ten people. Considering that they do so many conferences they seem to fly on average between 1-5 times a week. Often overseas.

So if you get 10 people flying say an average of 3 times a week with one international flight. What would that be? Maybe $30,000. Now if you times that by 52, you get $1,560,000.

Joyce Meyer has a very big ministry. That figure can obviously fluctuate according to family and staff and where they're going at any given time - depending on how big their ministry is. But isn't it better to keep that money in live capital rather then sending it all down the drain on ticket expenses.

That was this mans explanation and it sounded completely feasible to me.

I like Joyce Meyer and she strikes me as being a very honest and genuine person. I don't like slagging matchs against other christians and so called 'exposes' if they can't be validly proven. A sentence on a page does not prove anything. A prison sentence does. She has been investigated, if she was doing anything really dodgy she'd be in prison.

As I said, I have big issues with 'celebrity preachers'. That's ungodly, and writes off most of the christian channel as far as I'm concerned. But people are people. I've heard her speak and seen her dealing with people in real life and that's enough for me.

If I felt led to give her money, I would.

the range of a lear jet is only 1000 miles per refuel. she would have to fly alot to make up for 10 million dollars.
lawyers, do wonders.

the irs is slow. i know and irs agent and hes putting small time offenders in jail that did the crime three yrs ago.

that 3 yrs after the fact then you add the court time and then sentence comes after the conviction.

but i can attack the prosperity gospel from the bible.

 

[sherri2]

I don't think I get what you're saying. She saves money on plane tickets. Where or even if the fuel features very highly in the matter I don't know.

Did you even read my post?

Or are you trying to cast doubts while avoiding answering my points.

If she hasn't been convicted, she hasn't been convicted. Hello. Or is that just another doubt you're trying to cast to prop up your argument.

And if you can attack the prosperity gospel from the bible, how about doing that instead of attacking her personally.

Because that's what you're doing.

 

[jasoncran]

I don't think I get what you're saying. She saves money on plane tickets. Where or even if the fuel features very highly in the matter I don't know.

Did you even read my post?

Or are you trying to cast doubts while avoiding answering my points.

If she hasn't been convicted, she hasn't been convicted. Hello. Or is that just another doubt you're trying to cast to prop up your argument.

And if you can attack the prosperity gospel from the bible, how about doing that instead of attacking her personally.

Because that's what you're doing.

first off, i know some thing about planes, i have coworker who flies, dad built planes, and is an aeronatuical enginner.

my hometown has at least one of those that flies in and out one day.

i used to listen to her.

i'm not attacking her personally. you may think i am.

when she made this statement on air a long time ago. i was too young to see that is was wrong and false.

she said that after some time in the word, you will no longer to rely on the word alone. that you can read books and not so much the bible.

thats not quite right. the bible is the only book that is inerrent. all others even though they may be overall good but none are theological pure and sound all the time.

that is too me dangerous.

 

[Lewis]

Yes Sherri I heard Jesse Duplantis say the same thing, that he got the jet because it was costing them more to fly all over the world, than it would if they owned their own jet. Evangelist are always somewhere different from day to day, or night to night. I have also heard a few others say the same thing. And Joyce does not hawk on the prosperity thing, she does say from time to time that God will and does and can bless you with some things, but she does not shove that down your throat.

 

[GojuBrian]

Let's quit the money issue. I have no issue with people who have money, but it's what they do with it that counts.

How about teaching false things?

The Teachings of Joyce Meyer

Meyer shares the platform from time to time with Word of Faith teachers like, for example, Kenneth Copeland, Jesse Duplantis, Benny Hinn, and T.D. Jakes.[5] CRI is critical of and concerned with some of her practices and teachings.

In her 1991 booklet, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, she teaches a hallmark doctrine of Faith theology, namely, that Christ had to suffer in hell to atone for our sins and be born again:

During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin….He paid the price there.…no plan was too extreme…Jesus paid on the cross and in hell….God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, “Let Him go.†Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus….He was resurrected from the dead ¾ the first born-again man.[6]

Her assertions are not unlike those of leading Word of Faith proponent Kenneth Copeland, who also believes Christ’s death on the cross was not sufficient to atone for our sins, and that His work of redemption was completed by suffering in hell and being born again. According to Copeland,

When Jesus cried, “It is finished!†He was not speaking of the plan of redemption. There were still three days and nights to go through before He went to the throne….Jesus’ death on the cross was only the beginning of the complete work of redemption.7

[The] word of the living God went down into the pit of destruction and charged the spirit of Jesus with resurrection power! Suddenly His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to fill out and come back to life. He began to look like something the devil had never seen before. He was literally being reborn before the devil’s very eyes. He began to flex His spiritual muscles….Jesus was born again ¾ the first-born from the dead. 8

According to a recently published interview with free-lance writer Ken Walker, however, Meyer contradictorily denies ever believing or teaching that Christ was born again in hell.9

Moreover, in her 1991 booklet, Meyer asserts that salvation is impossible without believing Jesus suffered in hell as the believer’s substitute. Meyer writes, “There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell.â€10

While historic Christianity has debated the issue of whether or not Jesus actually descended into hell (e.g., to proclaim the gospel, declare victory, etc. [1 Peter 3:18-19]), no orthodox believer ever held to


the belief that Christ suffered and atoned for our sins in hell, rather than on the cross. Yet, Word of
Faith teachers, including Joyce Meyer, teach the necessity of Jesus having to pay for our sins in hell, under the torment of Satan and his angels ¾ a teaching both unsubstantiated by and contrary to Scripture. The entirety of Christ’s atoning work (i.e., His suffering and death in our place) occurred on the cross (e.g., 1 Peter 2:24), ending with His proclamation, “It is finished†(John 19:30). The Christ of Faith theology literally had to become sin, taking on the nature of Satan while in hell, thereby needing to be born again in hell before His resurrection could occur.

OTHER QUESTIONABLE TEACHINGS


Meyer also advocates peculiar and unbiblical manifestations at church gatherings, and attributes them to the power of God. She proclaims,

you gotta come on out in the deep….Oh, I think that word’s anointed right now. Deeeep!!! Mmmmmm! One lady was in a conference recently in St. Louis, and she said “I am telling you, every time you said the word “deep†the fire of God hit me in the pit of my guts.†The lady, she kept falling out of her chair and being on the floor, you know? And she said later, “every time you said ‘deeeeep’ it was like I just couldn’t stay in my chair!â€11

For a refutation of this and other unbiblical phenomena (e.g., being “slain in the Spiritâ€), we recommend Hank Hanegraaff’s book, Counterfeit Revival (B393/$20.00).

Although there is no biblical precedent, she makes the assertion that angels tell her what to preach:

Now spirits don’t have bodies, so we can’t see them. Okay? There probably is, I believe there is, and I certainly hope there is several angels up here this morning that are preaching with me. I believe that right before I speak some anointed statement to you, that one of them bends over and says in my ear what I’m supposed to say to you.12

She goes on to promote the superstitious belief that certain kinds of jewelry attract evil spirits:

There are many different signs and emblems that people wear as jewelry that are straight from the devil, and they absolutely do not know it, and I’m quite sure there are going to be people here today that probably even have some of these things in your possession. You may even be wearing one. And what they do is they draw evil spirits.13

In lieu of the biblical admonition to test everything by the objective Word of God (1 Thess. 5:21; 2 Tim. 3:16), Meyer further asserts that God would never allow her to fall into error. Turning instead to her subjective feelings she says,

I am going to tell you something right now. I no more believe that my God is going to let me stand around and believe a lie than I believe that I am going to turn green in the next two minutes. God is my source and He loves me and I am after God with my whole heart. And if I am accidentally, or any other way, getting into error, I am going to have a bell go off on the inside of me that is going to be so loud that not only am I going to hear it, but so is everybody else.14

 

[GojuBrian]

Despite what Meyer’s feelings tell her, Scripture says otherwise. The apostle Peter is a constant reminder of our proclivity for committing error, and demonstrated, for example, by Christ’s rebuking of Peter for attempting to deter Him from His mission (Matt. 16:22-23; Mark 8:31-33), and later by being publicly rebuked by the apostle Paul for yielding to the pressure of the Judaizers (Gal. 2:11-21). Were it not possible for Meyer to fall into deception and error, Scripture’s repeated warnings (e.g., Matt. 24:4-5; Acts 20:28-31; Gal. 1:6-9; 2 Thess. 2:1-3; 2 Tim. 4:3-4; 2 Peter 2:1-3) would be meaningless.

Also problematic are some of Meyer’s beliefs regarding spiritual warfare. According to her, for instance, generational spirits supposedly torment families for generations with specific sins, and she even believes that a demon of lust torments her family. On one occasion she says,

I told you that there was a spirit of incest in my family bloodline….And the thing that I want you to understand today is when there’s a spirit like that in a bloodline, until some person believes on Jesus and takes the blood of Jesus and draws it across that natural bloodline, that devastation goes on for generations and generations….Well see, my father’s grandfather had problems and so his father had problems and so my dad had problems and so I had problems and so if I wouldn’t have stood and believed Jesus, my kids would have had problems and their kids would have had problems and so on and so on.15

Scripture, however, does not support the existence of a demon or spirit of lust, nor any demon of a particular sin. It is true that certain sins (e.g., alcoholism) are perpetuated and can affect families for generations (see Exod. 20:5; Num. 14:18), but these are the consequences of sin ¾ not generational spirits. James’ epistle is clear that we sin because of our own evil desires (v. 1:14). Demons cannot force us to sin; however, they can influence our behavior through temptation (e.g., Gen. 3:1-6). Nonetheless, we are ultimately held accountable for our actions (e.g., Ezek. 18:4, 20). If this were not so, we would have license to exclaim, “the Devil made me do it!â€

Along similar lines, she believes that there are “mind-binding†spirits who keep multitudes of believers in a perpetual state of unbelief.16 Through deliverance, however, the attacks of mind-binding spirits will disappear. In her case, “when the spirits left, the ability to believe came rushing back.â€17

Meyer overemphasizes and distorts the parameters in which God permits Satan and his angels to work, by attributing practically every negative experience to demonic activity. There is even a demon of accidents. For example, she recounts experiencing a close call while pulling into and out of a fast food restaurant parking lot. She shouts, “‘I rebuke the spirit of accidents, in the name of Jesus!’â€18

Her false view of demonic activity propagates a paranoid and superstitious mindset, while obscuring the work of Christ, human accountability, and biblical views of spiritual warfare.

Don't be like Meyer and base your teachings on your feelings, base them on God's word.
Some of you still don't want to bother to read this because of what you perceive is media bias. Don't follow blindly, know the truth and follow those who live and teach it. Joyce Meyer is NOT one of those.

 

[Lewis]

As long as they don't constantly teach about prosperity I have no problem with it. Joyce, Jessie, and T.D. Jakes teaches on much, much more than money, come on give me a break. They teach the Bible, I don't care what you say about T.D Jakes, ether, I went to see him when he came to Philly. I also like Jessie Duplantis. Now God also has put preachers in place to teach us about money, the Bible talks about money all the way through it. And also God does bless some people with money, and some He does not. Gospel music stars get paid real well they have jets, they have million dollar homes, travel by limo or Rolls Royce, and I don't hear you all coming down on them. And they also work for God, because they are spreading the Gospel.

 

[GojuBrian]

Obviously, Lewsi, you did not read my reply, once again.

When you read it and respond to it ....rather than what you feel I said, I will reply.

 

[Dusty]

As long as they don't constantly teach about prosperity I have no problem with it. Joyce, Jessie, and T.D. Jakes teaches on much, much more than money, come on give me a break. They teach the Bible, I don't care what you say about T.D Jakes, ether, I went to see him when he came to Philly. I also like Jessie Duplantis. Now God also has put preachers in place to teach us about money, the Bible talks about money all the way through it. And also God does bless some people with money, and some He does not. Gospel music stars get paid real well they have jets, they have million dollar homes, travel by limo or Rolls Royce, and I don't hear you all coming down on them. And they also work for God, because they are spreading the Gospel.

Exactly and maybe Joyce isn't for all people . I do understand that . So it seems like we are on a merry go round here.

Check out her latest in India .

Welcome to Facebook

 

[jasoncran]

gospel musican dont make that much otherwise their concerts wouldnt be 10 bucks or at the most the 30

learjets while not a creature comfort, are not efficent enough to travel overseas.

i asked my pilot coworker. he informed that at most with pilot and copilot the seat capacity is six.

lewis, surely the faithful chinese who believe and also the the indian dhalits and other former hindus would be also experciencing the wealth. they believe in miracles and healing.

she has this not a learjet.

its range 2000 miles if its the latest.

but i will leave that stuff alone and instead attack the prosperity gospel.

http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/stats.main?id=135

 

[Lewis]

Oh Jason you are wrong, to many to count have million dollar homes and I mean many and some do have their on jets, and some do not, they charter, I do know that many of the black Gospel artist have million dollar homes, and that is a fact, and I mean many. High record sales and sold out concerts does that kind of thing. You already know that I am a musician, so I keep up on these kind of things.

 

[jasoncran]

Oh Jason you are wrong, to many to count have million dollar homes and I mean many and some do have their on jets, and some do not, they charter, I do know that many of the black Gospel artist have million dollar homes, and that is a fact, and I mean many. High record sales and sold out concerts does that kind of thing. You already know that I am a musician, so I keep up on these kind of things.

name them, and most likely i cant afford them.

most of concerts here are cheap. i could go to a steven curtis chapman concert for 10 bucks on saturday.

heather williams just started, and she aint rich.

btw some of the so called christian musicians are anything but. i like alot of them but with big lables its not about christ but cha ching.
if you doubt look at all the secular labels that produces them.

would you knowingly support gay christian musicians. the sad thing is the ccm is more like the world each and every day.

rarely do you hear christ mentioned.

not that i mind it. but i have taken notice that his name is less and less sung about and its more and more emotional songs or inspirational.

 

[Lewis]

I did not say all, I said many, Be Be & Ce Ce Winans, Donnie Mcklercen, I spelled that wrong. Kirk, Franklin, Fred Hammond, Hezekiah Walker, Shirley Caesar, Mahalia Jackson was the first black rich one. You also have Mary Mary, and Israel Houghton, the Winan family, and also Vicki Winan, Sandy Pattie, and many, many more, these people put in a lot of time in to this so what is wrong with a nice big house. And there is still more, but I am not going to sit here, and try to prove how rich all Gospel singers and musicians are. Now there are some who never get the big money, as a matter of fact there are a lot of them. But that does not go for everybody