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Nathan's question

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#1
All i edit was his Kingdom has come. I showed the scripture for the Kingdom. I believe the great white throne judgement is when people repent because they feel guilty, the book is open and they are standing before the judge. They are guilty through the Law.
Is this belief that your speaking of what people call full preterism?
 

JLB

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#2
Is this belief that your speaking of what people call full preterism?
Full Preterism
Full Preterism differs from Partial Preterism in that it sees all prophecy fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem, including the resurrection of the dead and Jesus' Second Coming or Parousia. Full Preterism is also known by other names, such as Consistent Preterism or Hyper-Preterism (a somewhat derogatory term). A related but more recent term is Pantelism, which some regard as an extension of Full Preterism rather than the same thing.

Full Preterism holds that Jesus' Second Coming is to be viewed not as a future-to-us bodily return, but rather a "return" manifested by the physical destruction of Jerusalem and her Temple in AD 70 by foreign armies in a manner similar to various Old Testament descriptions of God coming to destroy other nations in righteous judgment. Full Preterism also holds that the Resurrection of the dead did not entail the raising of the physical body, but rather the resurrection of the soul from the "place of the dead," known as Sheol (Hebrew) or Hades (Greek). As such, the righteous dead obtained a spiritual and substantial body for use in the heavenly realm, and the unrighteous dead were cast into the Lake of Fire. Some Full Preterists believe this judgment is ongoing and takes effect upon the death of each individual (Heb. 9:27). The New Heavens and the New Earth are also equated with the fulfillment of the Law in AD 70 and are to be viewed in the same manner by which a Christian is considered a "new creation" upon his or her conversion.

Although Full Preterism is viewed as heretical by many, this condemnation is not universal. Many of those who condemn Full Preterism do so not based solely upon the historic creeds of the church (which would exclude this view), but also from biblical passages that they interpret to condemn a past view of the Resurrection or the denial of a physical resurrection/transformation of the body, doctrines which many Christians (but not all) believe to be essential to the faith. Critics of full preterism point to the Apostle Paul's condemnation of the doctrine of Hymaneus and Philetus (2 Tim 2:17-18), which they regard as analogous to full preterism.

Adherents of Full Preterism, however, dispute this assertion by claiming that any biblical condemnation of a past resurrection was written during a time in which the Resurrection was yet future (i.e., pre-AD 70) as well as claiming different interpretations of other proffered biblical passages. Furthermore, Full Preterists reject the authority of the Creeds to condemn their view, stating that the Creeds were written by uninspired and fallible men and are simply in error on this point and need to be reformed. A growing movement, there has been a strong push by Full Preterists for acceptance as another valid Christian eschatological view; however, to date, no major conservative denomination or group has officially accepted this view as normative, though several have issued a condemnation.

http://www.theopedia.com/preterism



JLB
 
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#3
Well this is interesting. lol. I wouldn't have personally titled the thread that, but I understand if my question had to be moved.

Thanks for the background JLB. I do know quite a bit about (full)preterism, which is why I was asking if that was what he was referring to. It sounded a lot like it, but I was trying to make sure it was not something else he was referring to.

I personally have a hard time when people try to veil their responses or put things into parables. I would think that brothers and sisters in Christ would speak honestly and directly toward each other, and especially to those who are not apart of the Body.

I hold no condemnation toward anyone for what they believe. Personally, I do not see full preterism as an even remotely possible correct view. There are way too many passages to contradict it. Partial preterism I can see as having an honest view in the Bible. In fact, I may be more preterist than I am anything else if you were to try to nail me down to a end/current times belief. Truth be told though, I honestly hate(yes that strong) being lumped into a "belief" though. I understand why its that way, I do it also, but only to get a general idea of a persons thoughts so I can ask better questions/share thoughts better.

Its never to put someone into a box and leave them there. Doesn't seem very loving to me. I have found myself on the receiving end of that before and it does not feel good at all. We are all individuals and have different thoughts about things. None of us are perfect in our thinking(reason why I cannot see how we are now experiencing eternity).

I ask questions. Its what I do. Only to try and better understand. I do on occasion assume, but it never turns out well for me. lol
 
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JLB

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#4
Partial preterism I can see as having an honest view in the Bible

If you mean that some things in the Bible are past, like the cross, then yes.

If you mean that some things are past, like the resurrection of the dead in Christ and His coming, then no.


Convoluting the two things is why I don't want anything to do with Partial Preterism.


The events of 70 AD are not referred to in the Olivet Discourse.

I do see it in Daniel 9:26

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Daniel 9:26


Jesus refers to Daniel in the Olivet Discourse, but references the abomination of desolation, which comes during the 70th week.


JLB
 

reba

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#5
Well this is interesting. lol. I wouldn't have personally titled the thread that, but I understand if my question had to be moved.
i can change the title




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​
Just for clarification
2.2: No active promotion of other Faiths is allowed:

You will not post any messages; links, images or photos that promote a religion or belief other than Biblical and historical Christianity (atheism is considered a "belief" for the purposes of this rule). Discussion of these doctrines are is fine, as long as the beliefs foreign to Christianity (as defined above) are not actively promoted or held in balance with orthodox Christianity. This includes Full Preterism, Universal Reconciliation, Universal Salvation, Serpent seed, Dual Seed or Two-Seedline doctrine where discussion is limited to and only allowed in the 1 on 1 Debate Forum. This is a Christian Forum as the name suggests.
 

reba

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#6
A pleasant discussion on the topic woud be great... it is difficult to have such when over and over the long disjointed rebuttal is repeated and repeated .. (pun intended)
 
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#7
i can change the title


Nah, its fine. Its a valid question, but referred to another post, hopefully my second post clarify's it. I do understand it being moved.

I can see a pleasant discussion being great, but not to act like a know it all, I think it will always go "south" and eventually be "wasteful". (pun intended....couldn't help myself!)

That's in reference to full preterism at least. I can see other forms of preterism being a wonderful discussion. I have no desire to engage in the former though. I tend to be steadfast in what I received in Faith, and rather than looking at it as "unorthodox Christianity" I look at it as very deceiving and misleading.

I will always believe in differences in regards to exact time/events/meanings among believers. But Christ gave us certain hopes, and full preterism takes one and quite literally shoves it in the mud. I have strong feelings about it if you cannot tell. lol
 
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#8
I think it would be great to have some discussion on preterism, but unfortunately there are those who view any form of preterism as heresy and would rather argue, debate and refute anything that would be discussed. The preterism discussion is limited to this one particular forum and unfortunately, some try to obscure any discussion. As far as I am concerned, if you have not at least considered the preterist position, then you have not opened yourself to receiving the word of God. (I am not saying the preterist position is correct, but if you are closed off to considering it, then you are closed off from seeking to fully understand the word).

I have never studied preterism, and I don't know what all it claims. I had never heard of preterism until I came to this Christian Forum. All I know is my own perspective began to change as my focus shifted from a carnal application to a spiritual application. To be carnally minded is death, to be spiritually minded is life everlasting.
 

JLB

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#9
I think it would be great to have some discussion on preterism, but unfortunately there are those who view any form of preterism as heresy and would rather argue, debate and refute anything that would be discussed. The preterism discussion is limited to this one particular forum and unfortunately, some try to obscure any discussion. As far as I am concerned, if you have not at least considered the preterist position, then you have not opened yourself to receiving the word of God. (I am not saying the preterist position is correct, but if you are closed off to considering it, then you are closed off from seeking to fully understand the word).

I have never studied preterism, and I don't know what all it claims. I had never heard of preterism until I came to this Christian Forum. All I know is my own perspective began to change as my focus shifted from a carnal application to a spiritual application. To be carnally minded is death, to be spiritually minded is life everlasting.

Let's give it a try.


Here is my opening statement to you, for discussion.


I don't see the events of 70 AD referred to in the Olivet Discourse.

I do see it in Daniel 9:26

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Daniel 9:26


Jesus refers to Daniel in the Olivet Discourse, but references the abomination of desolation, which comes during the 70th week.




JLB
 
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#11
I can't say I want to start a conversation about it. But I would contribute to one respectfully.

The hardest part of it is that end times discussions are very hard to engage with specific detail. Unless your full preterist, the events being discussed are future.

It would be interesting though to talk about it.
 

reba

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#12
Any thoughts as to when the sacrifices in the temple ended?

About the time of Jesus' earthly ministry ?

about Acs 2 : 17- 20 or so..
 

JLB

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#13
Any thoughts as to when the sacrifices in the temple ended?

About the time of Jesus' earthly ministry ?

about Acs 2 : 17- 20 or so..

When the temple ended.
 

JLB

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#14
Any thoughts as to when the sacrifices in the temple ended?

About the time of Jesus' earthly ministry ?

about Acs 2 : 17- 20 or so..

Any thoughts on when they will resume?

These folks are wanting it sooner rather than later.

http://www.templemountfaithful.org/articles/president-trump-be-a-king-cyrus.php

President Trump: "Be a King Cyrus!"
Temple Mount Faithful to President Donald Trump: "Declare, Call, and Stand with Israel to Build the Third Temple in Jerusalem Like King Cyrus of Persia Did in 536 bce."
"Call the Pope to Return the Temple Menorah and Articles to Jerusalem to Be Used by Israel in the Third Holy Temple, soon to Be Built, Like King Cyrus Did When He Returned the Temple Menorah and Articles from Babylon to Be Used in the Second Temple."




JLB
 

JLB

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#16
When did "temple end"
What does scripture say about when the temple ended?

What does it say about it being rebuilt?


“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.
Daniel 9:25


JLB
 

JLB

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#18
where is the scripture to back this statement of yours ?

I answered your question, that you asked.

Here is you question, again.

Any thoughts as to when the sacrifices in the temple ended?

My answer: When the temple ended.


The sacrifices in the temple ended, when the temple ended.

That's my answer.


Now you are asking for me to provide scripture to back my statement.


There is no scripture, to prove that the Temple ended in 70 AD.


That's why preterism, is not a scriptural doctrine, because it's based on theory and not scripture.




JLB
 

reba

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#20
Any thoughts as to when the sacrifices in the temple ended?

About the time of Jesus' earthly ministry ?

about Acs 2 : 17- 20 or so..
When the temple ended.
The statement was made by you "when the temple ended" in answer to a question... Where is you scriptural support for your answer?
This is nothing more then then you request of other posters...
 

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