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Joined
Jan 22, 2015
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751
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I'm sorry Jesse, I guess your the only one that is teaching the right gospel. By the way, I guess I was right, I looked your age and your a young buck. You will mellow out in the years to come but try not to scare away too many non-believers in the mean time. I may not be a Christian, but I think it's the best religion out there and I think the more people that ask Jesus into their heart the better, so I am more of a friend than an enemy of the faith.
Actually in his defense, he has been in here to long. He has a passion for the Word, and God is working on developing things. I pray the passion never dies, and as time goes on he will be able to have that velvet over the iron. Knowing how to be passionate in a tender way.
Peace
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
56
Christian
No
Actually in his defense, he has been in here to long. He has a passion for the Word, and God is working on developing things. I pray the passion never dies, and as time goes on he will be able to have that velvet over the iron. Knowing how to be passionate in a tender way.
Peace
Yes, I can tell he's passionate. I just wonder how many non-believers have been turned off to the faith by his brash arrogance.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Messages
751
Christian
Yes
[QUOTE="Jonathan, post: 1056164, member: 7605"Is there anyone that wants to remain broken? The best example you may use is the atheist that is so angry at God that he pretends God doesn't exist. I don't believe that this is the psychology of most atheists but it may be true for some. I'm sure you'd say that this is exactly the kind of person God would NOT force himself on. Now, would God really say to this guy, sorry you rejected me so now your off to an eternity of torture? That angry atheist needs healing and why wouldn't God force this healing to take place? Why wouldn't God soften the atheist heart and facilitate love where anger and bitterness once was? This is what you wish you could do if you had a bitter child, why wouldn't God do it for the bitter atheist?/QUOTE]

I fully agree that this person needs healing. And it is the devil who is keeping his heart hardened, by reminding him of the past hurts, disappointments, etc. And i do believe that God is there trying to get his attention, but because of his blinders so to speak he cannot hear or see God. And until, he gets to a place of letting go of the hurt or forgiving the person that caused the hurt, he is not open to hear anything else. So it's not God's fault. It would be the devils.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
56
Christian
No
I fully agree that this person needs healing. And it is the devil who is keeping his heart hardened, by reminding him of the past hurts, disappointments, etc. And i do believe that God is there trying to get his attention, but because of his blinders so to speak he cannot hear or see God. And until, he gets to a place of letting go of the hurt or forgiving the person that caused the hurt, he is not open to hear anything else. So it's not God's fault. It would be the devils.
If it's the devils fault how can you blame man? We have our imperfect human nature to contend with and on top of that the devil is working against us? How can man be faulted given all the outside influence he must overcome?
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Messages
751
Christian
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If it's the devils fault how can you blame man? We have our imperfect human nature to contend with and on top of that the devil is working against us? How can man be faulted given all the outside influence he must overcome?
Man can be blamed because he made the choice of who to listen to. All good reasons to be hooked up with God and in tune with His ways. The Bible says that there will be troubles, and when we are listening to and following God's ways, it's easier to choose to stay in His ways.
Just like in the garden of eden. The devil spoke to eve, and because adam and eve choose to listen, they caused things to be bad for the rest of us. But ya know God had the plan of redemption, through the Blood of Jesus all planned out. He just had to train His chosen people as to why they would need it.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
778
That's what I'm saying, do christians really have this "blessed life" over the average non believer.
If they choose too, then yes they can. It was God's plan all along.
Now with that said, here is the rest of the story. It wont just happen because you choose God and His ways.
You have to learn His word and learn how to use His word and believe His word. There is no room for thinking it should be this way or that. Nope it has got to be done by Kingdom Law....

Yes Kingdom Law.....The laws God put into motion or being with in His written word.
The Law of Faith... is one example......Words are another......Love is another.....Forgivness is another.....
Get the picture ? It's like this....TOTAL SURRENDER unto God and His word and His way of doing things.

See when God's word becomes the final authority in EVERY SITUATION then you are on the right path.
It does not matter what the doctor says or the tv man or the bill collector.....what does God's word say and can you put it first place and not be moved or swayed from it ? Once you begin to live along these lines then YES you can see The Blessing working in your life. It's real but its not for the lazy or slothful or carnal mined.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
778
So is God saying if we choose him and his way we will see life? is this an accurate picture of how believers really are?
Choose His way means you walk in His word and you speak His word and you do His word and your life will be blessed HOWEVER choose the other way and do things your way and talk your ways and walk in your own ways and you will reap from your own ways, Another words,,,,,,trouble and problems and hastles and all sorts of every day crap will be in your life AND...A - N - D YOU ARE LEFT TO DEAL WITH IT....NOT GOD
 
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
2,172
If they choose too, then yes they can. It was God's plan all along.
Now with that said, here is the rest of the story. It wont just happen because you choose God and His ways.
You have to learn His word and learn how to use His word and believe His word. There is no room for thinking it should be this way or that. Nope it has got to be done by Kingdom Law....

Yes Kingdom Law.....The laws God put into motion or being with in His written word.
The Law of Faith... is one example......Words are another......Love is another.....Forgivness is another.....
Get the picture ? It's like this....TOTAL SURRENDER unto God and His word and His way of doing things.

See when God's word becomes the final authority in EVERY SITUATION then you are on the right path.
It does not matter what the doctor says or the tv man or the bill collector.....what does God's word say and can you put it first place and not be moved or swayed from it ? Once you begin to live along these lines then YES you can see The Blessing working in your life. It's real but its not for the lazy or slothful or carnal mined.
When a person applies what God has said and commanded, then it is powerful, as the gospel came not only in words but in power.
As believers, we are not limited to what the world is going through, if there is an economic downturn, believers can come out on top, if you are sick, take the sick person to the elders and have them pray over them so this way your illnesses are healed. If you are out of money, pray and God will provide. He will fill all of our needs and that is a promise, it's just that we either don't believe it or we think the issue is too big for God.
We have to remember 1). God is who He says He is 2) We are who God says we are 3). God will do what He says He will do.
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
205
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Female
Jonathan, I hear your worries on some points. Yes, different stories have different focus. Likewise, we can focus on one thing or another. I tend to read randomly or to read things I am interested in. It is not a perfect way, but it opens me to scripture. I also read things that others comment on or quote and go and read more of those passages associated with those. Little by little doing this I began to sort out, without trying to, previous issues with scripture. For example, I for one can take or leave Corintians (parts of) because they feel more like a human priest telling the flock to follow a bunch of human rules. But that is what they needed to hear no doubt, although I find the writing style to be sort of different (for me) than other parts that seem better written.. But there must be a reason for that, the question of the audience and focus. And sometimes we too need to hear things in a direct way too. Once I accepted Jesus, my heart was at rest, I was not feeling it as a point of contention but just assumed I would grow to understand any parts of scripture that for now feel alien to me. It used to bother me too, that the OT God seemed violent and punished man. After all, man is finite weak has the deck stacked against him and also on top of that the evil ones plague him. But none of that bothers me now. For one, man is not being asked to do impossible things. He is only being asked to accept and love Jesus. How hard can it be to love Jesus, a beautiful, perfect being who loves us back. The impossible things we deal with are that the human race was punished, fell from Grace because Eve listened to Satan. It seems unfair that because one human, our human parent, chose to disobey that we are all punished. But keep in mind that when Eve disobeyed she was not the finite creatures we are. She was a being who would never age, who had communion with God in the Garden, whose needs were all met in spades. The only rule was don't eat that. In eating it she disobeyed the Lord and risked displeasing her husband too. A cynical argument I have heard often is that well, God knew they'd sin so therefore he set them up, that in the same way we are set up now since the Lord knows who will accept Jesus and in advance has pre-sifted man. Those he rejects and destroys then had no way to escape that fate.

It is very hard to answer this question Jonathan because we have to make assumptions about who God is and what he pre-ordains and what he allows for us to actually do, i.e., is there really free will. The best human minds in history can't answer if there is free will, so how could I. My answer is that in humility I must accept I don't know everything. I have a finite view of reality and can't possibly second guess what God knows, does, thinks. My only task is to have FAITH in Jesus and to let the Holy Spirit in my heart to teach me. Yes, I have to go through life daily, feeling weak, feeling a lack of control, being unsure that I have a clear and certain picture of what God wants from me. Because I don't know much it forces humility. I have to hold my silence a bit more often with others, wait, cease to judge for myself. I feel peace and joy to have accepted Jesus but that doesn't mean that I know everything now and that all of finite existence and the choices I make there are crystal clear or that I understand, with perfect x-ray vision every line of the bible.. I do think though that having more humility helps me avoid doing things that I would regret since I am less apt to think I have the answers and leap into things.It also lets me approach scripture with an open heart.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Messages
751
Christian
Yes
Jonathan,
Was doing some thinking and praying about your thoughts regarding....if God is such a good God why or how can He allow someone to go to hell. Something God showed me is that because God cannot, and does not lie, He has no choice but to follow through on His Word, that says that Jesus is the Only way to inherit salvation. In Hebrews 10:38b it says that God takes no pleasure in anyone He turns away. It really causes His heart to be really saddened, (The Bible says it breaks His heart). This is why the Bible says that He is very patient with us not willing any should perish. And why it's so important to be about the Father's business of telling how great and wonderful He is. As i have wept over missing my children, i believe that God weeps over being separated over His children (that is the impression that i got when i took my cares to Him). His desire is to bless you and treat you as if sin never happened, and it breaks His heart when He cannot display His Love for you!
When we grasp how wide, high, and deep His love for us is (that He would ask His only son to be born in human form, just to die a very brutal death, so that we can be in right standing with God regardless of our past sins) wow what a burden removing, yolk destroying testimony that we have to take to others so that they can be reconciled too. Awesome, awesome, awesome!!
Much peace and blessing to you my friend!
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
56
Christian
No
Thanks Jonathan! I really appreciate your words of encouragement! I have a verse in the Bible that God gave me that it is only for a season. And He also gave me verses letting me know that i can trust Him to take care of them and they will be serving Him. It just takes patience.
Thank you also for being willing to have this discussion in your welcome thread. I enjoy talking to you all! :)
Of course Cturtle, I think we are all here to share and learn so all subjects are open to discuss. I am enjoying all the conversations as well.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
56
Christian
No
Jonathan, I hear your worries on some points. Yes, different stories have different focus. Likewise, we can focus on one thing or another. I tend to read randomly or to read things I am interested in. It is not a perfect way, but it opens me to scripture. I also read things that others comment on or quote and go and read more of those passages associated with those. Little by little doing this I began to sort out, without trying to, previous issues with scripture. For example, I for one can take or leave Corintians (parts of) because they feel more like a human priest telling the flock to follow a bunch of human rules. But that is what they needed to hear no doubt, although I find the writing style to be sort of different (for me) than other parts that seem better written.. But there must be a reason for that, the question of the audience and focus. And sometimes we too need to hear things in a direct way too. Once I accepted Jesus, my heart was at rest, I was not feeling it as a point of contention but just assumed I would grow to understand any parts of scripture that for now feel alien to me. It used to bother me too, that the OT God seemed violent and punished man. After all, man is finite weak has the deck stacked against him and also on top of that the evil ones plague him. But none of that bothers me now. For one, man is not being asked to do impossible things. He is only being asked to accept and love Jesus. How hard can it be to love Jesus, a beautiful, perfect being who loves us back. The impossible things we deal with are that the human race was punished, fell from Grace because Eve listened to Satan. It seems unfair that because one human, our human parent, chose to disobey that we are all punished. But keep in mind that when Eve disobeyed she was not the finite creatures we are. She was a being who would never age, who had communion with God in the Garden, whose needs were all met in spades. The only rule was don't eat that. In eating it she disobeyed the Lord and risked displeasing her husband too. A cynical argument I have heard often is that well, God knew they'd sin so therefore he set them up, that in the same way we are set up now since the Lord knows who will accept Jesus and in advance has pre-sifted man. Those he rejects and destroys then had no way to escape that fate.

It is very hard to answer this question Jonathan because we have to make assumptions about who God is and what he pre-ordains and what he allows for us to actually do, i.e., is there really free will. The best human minds in history can't answer if there is free will, so how could I. My answer is that in humility I must accept I don't know everything. I have a finite view of reality and can't possibly second guess what God knows, does, thinks. My only task is to have FAITH in Jesus and to let the Holy Spirit in my heart to teach me. Yes, I have to go through life daily, feeling weak, feeling a lack of control, being unsure that I have a clear and certain picture of what God wants from me. Because I don't know much it forces humility. I have to hold my silence a bit more often with others, wait, cease to judge for myself. I feel peace and joy to have accepted Jesus but that doesn't mean that I know everything now and that all of finite existence and the choices I make there are crystal clear or that I understand, with perfect x-ray vision every line of the bible.. I do think though that having more humility helps me avoid doing things that I would regret since I am less apt to think I have the answers and leap into things.It also lets me approach scripture with an open heart.
Thank you Bluegirl, that was a very thoughtful response and I appreciate you taking my concerns seriously. I think you are saying I should put my faith in Jesus and not get caught up in the details. I understand this to a certain degree and it makes sense. The thing is, I've prayed to Jesus many times in my search for truth and didn't seem to get any answers. I prayed for truth and understanding and received no answer. Strangely, even after not receiving an answer to my sincere prayer, I haven't given up hope on Jesus. I have kept that door open and have told Jesus that when he's ready to reveal himself to me I'm ready. In the mean time though, I have to go with what I know to be true and at this moment I can't say that Jesus is Lord/Savior etc.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
56
Christian
No
Jonathan,
Was doing some thinking and praying about your thoughts regarding....if God is such a good God why or how can He allow someone to go to hell. Something God showed me is that because God cannot, and does not lie, He has no choice but to follow through on His Word, that says that Jesus is the Only way to inherit salvation. In Hebrews 10:38b it says that God takes no pleasure in anyone He turns away. It really causes His heart to be really saddened, (The Bible says it breaks His heart). This is why the Bible says that He is very patient with us not willing any should perish. And why it's so important to be about the Father's business of telling how great and wonderful He is. As i have wept over missing my children, i believe that God weeps over being separated over His children (that is the impression that i got when i took my cares to Him). His desire is to bless you and treat you as if sin never happened, and it breaks His heart when He cannot display His Love for you!
When we grasp how wide, high, and deep His love for us is (that He would ask His only son to be born in human form, just to die a very brutal death, so that we can be in right standing with God regardless of our past sins) wow what a burden removing, yolk destroying testimony that we have to take to others so that they can be reconciled too. Awesome, awesome, awesome!!
Much peace and blessing to you my friend!
Cturtle, thank you for your thoughts. I have a lot to say about this but I want to think about it more so I will provide a longer answer later and a short answer now.
One thing I never understood about Jesus' sacrifice is how it could be considered a sacrifice. Did God really "give" his Son as stated in John 3:16? OK, Jesus died, but only in the physical/temporal form. Was God ever without His Son for any period of time? Not really, because God is everywhere and has access to all things at all times.
Second, the concept of eternal punishment is self-defeating. The only reason we punish is to teach, therefore a temporary punishment is morally acceptable. There is no purpose to an infinite punishment and therefore it is cruel by definition.
Third, could you imagine a situation in which you'd subject your disobedient child to eternal torture? Of course not. If God is infinitely more loving and compassionate than we fallable humans are then it would be impossible for Him to eternally torture a soul that He created.
Fourth, why would God solve the problem of suffering by causing/allowing infinite suffering?
Darn, I wanted to write more but my computer is really slow so it's very difficult to type.. Will have to finish up at home.......
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Messages
751
Christian
Yes
Cturtle, thank you for your thoughts. I have a lot to say about this but I want to think about it more so I will provide a longer answer later and a short answer now.
One thing I never understood about Jesus' sacrifice is how it could be considered a sacrifice. Did God really "give" his Son as stated in John 3:16? OK, Jesus died, but only in the physical/temporal form. Was God ever without His Son for any period of time? Not really, because God is everywhere and has access to all things at all times.
Second, the concept of eternal punishment is self-defeating. The only reason we punish is to teach, therefore a temporary punishment is morally acceptable. There is no purpose to an infinite punishment and therefore it is cruel by definition.
Third, could you imagine a situation in which you'd subject your disobedient child to eternal torture? Of course not. If God is infinitely more loving and compassionate than we fallable humans are then it would be impossible for Him to eternally torture a soul that He created.
Fourth, why would God solve the problem of suffering by causing/allowing infinite suffering?
Darn, I wanted to write more but my computer is really slow so it's very difficult to type.. Will have to finish up at home.......
The first thing that i want to do is to thank you for taking the time to bring your troubles, and concerns to the table. I will address one right now and then i will be praying as to how to answer your other questions.

Your question regarding the Father really giving His Son. Yes He truly gave His Son and was truly separated from Him for a period of time. You see that God is so Holy, that He can not look upon any sin. When Jesus died on the cross, He was covered with our sin. And in that moment God had to separate Himself from His own Son. And He stayed separated from Him till He rose again. In the garden of Gethsemane the reason why Jesus sweat drops of blood is because He knew that taking on our sin would cause Him to be separated from God the Father, yet He had to trust God enough to believe that He would bring Him back. And yes i believe that as you said that God has access to everywhere, but He cannot go down to hell. So He had to be in Heaven and watch His child get punished for our sins. A true sacrifice, Jesus was.
 

JPPT1974

CHRISTmas, Not X-Mas!
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Joined
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Messages
252
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Hi Jonathan, welcome to the forums. Feel free to post. Don't be shy at all. God bless! We are very friendly!
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Messages
751
Christian
Yes
Jonathan, i have a question to propose....it's hypothetical.... if someone out there killed the one person whom you loved most, and they were standing before the judge, would you be happy if they were not convicted of their crime, but set free because they were somehow able to convince the judge, that they should go free due to their being a good person? Should that person be held accountable for what crime they had committed?

Just thoughts to ponder......Because God is a good judge, and throughout all of our lives, gives us many, many chances to say yes to Him (even on our death bed), as painful as it is to His heart, He has to keep His own Word. Otherwise Jesus died for nothing and faith is of no value.

Blessing to you and all you do and i am praying that God fill you with much wisdom! And His overwhelming presence!
 

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