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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
New Jerusalem Temple, is it literal?
- Thread starter jonahmano
- Start date
the last part of this article
As RC Sproul has said,
“ The advantage of preterism is that it 'saves the phenomena' of the New Testament time-frame references; it interprets biblical prophecy according to the images used in Scripture itself; and it offers a framework for consistent interpretation of the difficult apocalyptic literature of the Bible, such as that found in Daniel and Revelation." ”
*The word “orthodox” has been dropped as redundant. Historically speaking preterism has always been orthodox, but a relatively recent band of heretics have attempted to abscond with a history good title. So called “full preterism” is nothing more than repackaged Hymenaeanism (2Timothy 2:17), and as such, is both creedally and Biblically heterodox. Preterists such as myself do not deny any essential of the historic Christian faith. We believe in the future bodily resurrection, the future bodily return of Jesus Christ, the future final redemption of Planet Earth, and the future Final Judgment.
As RC Sproul has said,
“ The advantage of preterism is that it 'saves the phenomena' of the New Testament time-frame references; it interprets biblical prophecy according to the images used in Scripture itself; and it offers a framework for consistent interpretation of the difficult apocalyptic literature of the Bible, such as that found in Daniel and Revelation." ”
*The word “orthodox” has been dropped as redundant. Historically speaking preterism has always been orthodox, but a relatively recent band of heretics have attempted to abscond with a history good title. So called “full preterism” is nothing more than repackaged Hymenaeanism (2Timothy 2:17), and as such, is both creedally and Biblically heterodox. Preterists such as myself do not deny any essential of the historic Christian faith. We believe in the future bodily resurrection, the future bodily return of Jesus Christ, the future final redemption of Planet Earth, and the future Final Judgment.
The label of preterist has been put on me because of the scriptures i posted... with my view of taking Jesus literally at His word. Up until i posted in a few forums i had no idea there was such a word as preterist..
reading the above article today is the most 'pretersit' teaching i have read... . I quickly read it i did not study the article... my guess is there will be parts i dont agree with
Just as with Dispensationalism there are parts i dont agree with.. or with reform etc..
As a direct answer to JLB question
No more on preterism in this thread ... that discussion belongs in the proper forum..
reading the above article today is the most 'pretersit' teaching i have read... . I quickly read it i did not study the article... my guess is there will be parts i dont agree with
Just as with Dispensationalism there are parts i dont agree with.. or with reform etc..
As a direct answer to JLB question
i dont know as i have never studied what they teach..
No more on preterism in this thread ... that discussion belongs in the proper forum..
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18
The antichrist is coming...
...is coming refers to the future.
Daniel calls him "the prince who is to come".
“And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood, and till the end of the war desolation are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”
The abomination of desolation is associated with the prince who is to come.
This confirming of the covenant happens after the destruction of the city and sanctuary.
JLB
The antichrist is coming...
...is coming refers to the future.
Daniel calls him "the prince who is to come".
“And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood, and till the end of the war desolation are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”
The abomination of desolation is associated with the prince who is to come.
This confirming of the covenant happens after the destruction of the city and sanctuary.
JLB
New International Version
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
New Living Translation
Dear children, the last hour is here. You have heard that the Antichrist is coming, and already many such antichrists have appeared. From this we know that the last hour has come.
English Standard Version
Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.
Berean Study Bible
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour.
Berean Literal Bible
Little children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen, whereby we know that it isthe last hour.
New American Standard Bible
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.
King James Bible
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Children, it is the last hour. And as you have heard, "Antichrist is coming," even now many antichrists have come. We know from this that it is the last hour.
International Standard Version
Little children, it is the last hour. Just as you heard that an antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour.
NET Bible
Children, it is the last hour, and just as you heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. We know from this that it is the last hour.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
My children, it is an end time, and according to what you have heard that The False Messiah comes, already there have been many false messiahs, and by this we know that it is an end time.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Children, it's the end of time. You've heard that an antichrist is coming. Certainly, many antichrists are already here. That's how we know it's the end of time.
New American Standard 1977
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour.
Jubilee Bible 2000
Little children, it is the last hour, and as ye have heard that the antichrist comes, likewise there are also beginning to be many antichrists, by which we know that it is the last time.
King James 2000 Bible
Little children, it is the last time: and as you have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; by which we know that it is the last time.
American King James Version
Little children, it is the last time: and as you have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
American Standard Version
Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist cometh, even now there are become many Antichrists: whereby we know that it is the last hour.
Darby Bible Translation
Little children, it is [the] last hour, and, according as ye have heard that antichrist comes, even now there have come many antichrists, whence we know that it is [the] last hour.
English Revised Version
Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.
Webster's Bible Translation
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist cometh, even now are there many antichrists; by which we know that it is the last time.
Weymouth New Testament
Dear children, the last hour has come; and as you once heard that there was to be an anti-Christ, so even now many anti-Christs have appeared. By this we may know that the last hour has come.
World English Bible
Little children, these are the end times, and as you heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen. By this we know that it is the final hour.
Young's Literal Translation
Little youths, it is the last hour; and even as ye heard that the antichrist doth come, even now antichrists have become many -- whence we know that it is the last hour;
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
New Living Translation
Dear children, the last hour is here. You have heard that the Antichrist is coming, and already many such antichrists have appeared. From this we know that the last hour has come.
English Standard Version
Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.
Berean Study Bible
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour.
Berean Literal Bible
Little children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen, whereby we know that it isthe last hour.
New American Standard Bible
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.
King James Bible
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Children, it is the last hour. And as you have heard, "Antichrist is coming," even now many antichrists have come. We know from this that it is the last hour.
International Standard Version
Little children, it is the last hour. Just as you heard that an antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour.
NET Bible
Children, it is the last hour, and just as you heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. We know from this that it is the last hour.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
My children, it is an end time, and according to what you have heard that The False Messiah comes, already there have been many false messiahs, and by this we know that it is an end time.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Children, it's the end of time. You've heard that an antichrist is coming. Certainly, many antichrists are already here. That's how we know it's the end of time.
New American Standard 1977
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour.
Jubilee Bible 2000
Little children, it is the last hour, and as ye have heard that the antichrist comes, likewise there are also beginning to be many antichrists, by which we know that it is the last time.
King James 2000 Bible
Little children, it is the last time: and as you have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; by which we know that it is the last time.
American King James Version
Little children, it is the last time: and as you have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
American Standard Version
Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist cometh, even now there are become many Antichrists: whereby we know that it is the last hour.
Darby Bible Translation
Little children, it is [the] last hour, and, according as ye have heard that antichrist comes, even now there have come many antichrists, whence we know that it is [the] last hour.
English Revised Version
Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.
Webster's Bible Translation
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist cometh, even now are there many antichrists; by which we know that it is the last time.
Weymouth New Testament
Dear children, the last hour has come; and as you once heard that there was to be an anti-Christ, so even now many anti-Christs have appeared. By this we may know that the last hour has come.
World English Bible
Little children, these are the end times, and as you heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen. By this we know that it is the final hour.
Young's Literal Translation
Little youths, it is the last hour; and even as ye heard that the antichrist doth come, even now antichrists have become many -- whence we know that it is the last hour;
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
JLB i thought you used KJ most the time?
What is the difference between shall come, and is coming.
I think you know which version I uses, by looking at my signature.
Shall come = Future
is coming = Future
Antichrist is coming in the Future.
Children, it is the last hour. And as you have heard, "Antichrist is coming," even now many antichrists have come. We know from this that it is the last hour. Holman Christian Standard.
JLB
Revelation 21:2 KJV
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Satan kicked out of heaven is released to cause problems on earth. Thank God the power to get him to flee is sent to us to defeat the onslaught.
Matthew 6:10 KJV
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
The new Jerusalem is not heaven as such, but is coming down out of heaven. The Holy Spirit was sent by Jesus.
We are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Romans 7:25
eddif
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Satan kicked out of heaven is released to cause problems on earth. Thank God the power to get him to flee is sent to us to defeat the onslaught.
Matthew 6:10 KJV
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
The new Jerusalem is not heaven as such, but is coming down out of heaven. The Holy Spirit was sent by Jesus.
We are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Romans 7:25
eddif
Jim Parker
Member
Interesting observation! Good point! Thank you.
And wherever two or more are gathered, Jesus is in their midst which makes the gathering of the church (2 or more) the real presence of the Kingdom of God on earth.
King Dan of Great the 1st
Member
John 19:30
Rev 3:9
Rev 3:9
King Dan of Great the 1st
Member
All the diciples and apostles were jew and believe Jesus is Messiah. After, thousands and thousands of Jews accepted Jesus as Messiah. Thats a one sided generalisation and accusation you are making. Scripture says thousands of jews believed and were baptised.
Who are these 'the jews' you are talking about. And please dont say the people of modern day isreal.
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King Dan of Great the 1st
Member
'The jews' rejected Christ. 'The jews' do not yet recognised Christ as messiah'?
Acts 2:41
Acts 2:41
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The Gospel that was preached, required them [Jews] to confess Jesus as Lord, YHWH, the Savior of Israel.
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:9-13
- Confessing Jesus as YHWH, is obeying the Gospel.
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report? Romans 10:16
Some of the Jews who believed in Jesus, but would not confess Him.
Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; 12 The next day a great multitude that had come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, 13 took branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him, and cried out:
“Hosanna! ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ The King of Israel!”
John 12:11-13
This is a cry to YHWH, as Savior of Israel.
This is a quote from Zechariah, as is a reference to Jesus as Lord.
“Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation,
Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey.
Zechariah 9:9
The King of Israel is a reference to the Lord God, YHWH. The Lord of Host's.
So I said: “Woe is me, for I am undone! Because I am a man of unclean lips, And I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, The Lord of hosts.” Isaiah 6:5
JLB
Valid point.
No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person's praise is not from other people, but from God. Romans 2:29 NIV
Endtime_Survivors
Member
I think there will be both a literal and a spiritual temple. I was happy to see JLB reference a prophecy from Daniel 9. The prophecy is worded in such a way that it likely has a double meaning (which I think is pretty common for prophecy). I'll just
“And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood, and till the end of the war desolation are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”
Both Jesus and Satan are princes. Jesus is the prince of peace and Satan is referred to as the "prince of this world". They will both "confirm a covenant with many" for "one week" (i.e.a 7 year period). For the flesh Jews who want their temple back, they'll make an agreement with the AC to rebuild the temple, ushering in a time of peace etc (usually referred to as the "plastic peace" in modern times, though Paul referenced it when he said in the end people will say "peace and safety" and then sudden destruction). For Jesus, he will organize 144,000 of his followers into 12 tribes, representing the spiritual temple. These people are described as those who "follow the lamb wherever he goes".
The evil prince (i.e. the AC) will renege on his agreement in the "middle of the week" or 3.5 years later (thus initiating the Great Tribulation), probably profaning the physical temple in some observable way, but the real abomination will be his war against the spiritual temple (i.e. the saints of the great tribulation). Compare Revelation 11:3 with Daniel 8:13, where the "daily sacrifice" is mentioned as well as the trodding under foot of the "sanctuary and host". The people are the real temple and they will be "trodden underfoot". Also, "sacrifice" here probably has a double meaning in that there will be ritualistic sacrifices in the re-built Jewish temple (i.e. the counterfeit temple) while Christians will be sacrificing themselves during the great tribulation as the Beast makes war with them (see Daniel 7:12 and Revelation 12:11).
“And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood, and till the end of the war desolation are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”
Both Jesus and Satan are princes. Jesus is the prince of peace and Satan is referred to as the "prince of this world". They will both "confirm a covenant with many" for "one week" (i.e.a 7 year period). For the flesh Jews who want their temple back, they'll make an agreement with the AC to rebuild the temple, ushering in a time of peace etc (usually referred to as the "plastic peace" in modern times, though Paul referenced it when he said in the end people will say "peace and safety" and then sudden destruction). For Jesus, he will organize 144,000 of his followers into 12 tribes, representing the spiritual temple. These people are described as those who "follow the lamb wherever he goes".
The evil prince (i.e. the AC) will renege on his agreement in the "middle of the week" or 3.5 years later (thus initiating the Great Tribulation), probably profaning the physical temple in some observable way, but the real abomination will be his war against the spiritual temple (i.e. the saints of the great tribulation). Compare Revelation 11:3 with Daniel 8:13, where the "daily sacrifice" is mentioned as well as the trodding under foot of the "sanctuary and host". The people are the real temple and they will be "trodden underfoot". Also, "sacrifice" here probably has a double meaning in that there will be ritualistic sacrifices in the re-built Jewish temple (i.e. the counterfeit temple) while Christians will be sacrificing themselves during the great tribulation as the Beast makes war with them (see Daniel 7:12 and Revelation 12:11).
Malachi
Member
Since Orthodox Jews do not believe that Jesus was the final sacrifice, yes there will be a literal third temple in Jerusalem, and the Antichrist will sit in it proclaiming that he is God. Plans for this temple have been under way for a while. Check out the Temple Institute website.
Malachi
Member
Quite the opposite.
Malachi
Member
This is not about what God desires, but about Jews without Christ who believe they are pleasing God.