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No Jesus on school playground

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#1
Are any of you with an apologetic interest prepared to engage with an article, 'School children have a right to discuss their religious beliefs'? The article is in a secular e-journal, On Line Opinion. Anyone interested in engaging with antagonists to the faith or those of a different persuasion?

You'll need to sign in with a password.

There is currently a controversy in some schools here in Queensland where children are forbidden from mentioning Jesus, handing out Christmas cards, and discussing religious things on the school playground. I heard about a child who was disciplined for mentioning the name of Jesus.

How about joining me in defending the faith!

Oz
 
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#2
So far, I've seen none of you responding to atheists and others on the website for which I provided a link above.

A person who calls himself/herself, TheAtheist (p. 2), wrote:

"There is no dysfunction caused by atheism.
Only dysfunction caused by religious stupidity.
Keep this dysfunction out of our schools".​

How would you reply to him/her in a secular culture?

Oz
 
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#3
I just read the article and the comments made (thus far) but when trying to register I can't. If they are suppose to send an email to confirm registering then that step didn't happen. So far that's the extent that I can offer. Sorry.
______________

If you would like my input though, here is what I would offer the conversation thus far.

So far the conversation stems along the lines of

1). The actual article defending the religous right to speak. (Defended quite well since none of the original article is actually quoted to critique or counterpoint. That should be noted in it's merit)
2). Those who disagree with religion in general, and think of it as a con job, poison, or otherwise thing it should be shunned and removed from schools and society.
3). And the commenters who defend the rights for religion, as well as those who hold and share their beliefs in their religion as part of the discussion.

Let's get down to specifics though. The article spends a great deal talking about Australia's rights to freedom of speach to include both religous and political stances. To take that away from such a large foundation of society (schools) must mean there's a great harm in having them freely discussed by children or holding projects that have a religous theme in school. If there is harm be specific in it. What the harm is and to what religion the harm belongs to. After all you all are talking about a very large change in your country where children are not allowed to talk freely within their institutions for education. How can that be a good thing unless it is to counter a drastic and specific harm?

Speaking from the knowledge of a Christian I can tell you that the tenets and teaching of Christianity do not give way to violence, but instead teach to turn the other cheek, bless and pray for those who persecute you. And let vengeance be God's so as to not commit violence yourself. This alone should be enough to encourage a person to faithful trust in God even when they feel justified to retaliate for any reason, as well as encourage people to do good even to those who wrong you. But the teachings of Christianity do not end there. Jesus teaches to be generous and to tend to those who are sick, in prison, poor, and widowed. To be kind and hospitital to the forieners traveling through the lands. And to love God, whom loves the world so so much.

To any of these is there danger? Is there reason for such drastic measure in the school system? Perhaps it's not about the teaching then, perhaps it's about the churches? If that is it then say the harm and be specific in both example and from where it came from. From my experience churches are community builders, where people gather to worship, but while they are there usually makes strides to meets the needs of the community they reside in. In any school that has poor, impoverished, single parent or foster care households having such a foundation to in the community would help in so many ways that it would positively affect the students in troubling scenerios.

While I can not speak for other religions, I can say from this one that the only reason to be angry with Christianity is in discust that it does not conform to your view. And in that discust, if you would rather drastically change your nation and it's freedoms to remove it from the school setting. There had better be a better reason then this for such a change. To do this disservice and pave the path for future disservices requires a very good reason. Make it a good one.
 
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Free

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#4
So far, I've seen none of you responding to atheists and others on the website for which I provided a link above.

A person who calls himself/herself, TheAtheist (p. 2), wrote:

"There is no dysfunction caused by atheism.
Only dysfunction caused by religious stupidity.
Keep this dysfunction out of our schools".​

How would you reply to him/her in a secular culture?

Oz
I would start by asking what they meant by "dysfunction."
 
B

banded butterfly

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#5
Atheists! :rofl2:stupid
The only people dedicated to fighting what they first swear does not exist!:screwloose

How do you think anyone can debate or rationalize with what first identifies themselves by an irrational self described title; atheist. :confused2
 
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#8
Time is against me at the moment. I have some renos to complete on the house before school starts in four weeks.
I understand. Yours will also be a race against the chilly Canadian weather. Our temp range today is 9-26C (still in winter) with this forecast in Brisbane: "Sunny. Light winds becoming N/NE 15 to 20 km/h in the late afternoon then becoming light in the late evening."

Oz
 
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#9
Atheists! :rofl2:stupid
The only people dedicated to fighting what they first swear does not exist!:screwloose

How do you think anyone can debate or rationalize with what first identifies themselves by an irrational self described title; atheist. :confused2
Banded,

I still think it is appropriate that we share with atheists the evidence for God, praying that the Lord will open their hearts.

At one stage, C S Lewis claimed to be an atheist and he was a "reluctant convert" to Christianity.

I don't waste time with militant atheists as they don't have an open mind to ALL evidence.

Oz
 
B

banded butterfly

Guest
#10
Banded,

I still think it is appropriate that we share with atheists the evidence for God, praying that the Lord will open their hearts.

At one stage, C S Lewis claimed to be an atheist and he was a "reluctant convert" to Christianity.

I don't waste time with militant atheists as they don't have an open mind to ALL evidence.

Oz
If the atheists you describe at that site are to have open hearts it is God's choice to do that, his power only can do that. Because no one comes to Christ unless The Father calls them.
 
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#11
If the atheists you describe at that site are to have open hearts it is God's choice to do that, his power only can do that. Because no one comes to Christ unless The Father calls them.
Jesus said: "And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself” (John 12:32 ESV).

So are you here promoting Calvinistic unconditional election?

Oz
 

Papa Zoom

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#12
I just read the article and the comments made (thus far) but when trying to register I can't. If they are suppose to send an email to confirm registering then that step didn't happen. So far that's the extent that I can offer. Sorry.
______________

If you would like my input though, here is what I would offer the conversation thus far.

So far the conversation stems along the lines of

1). The actual article defending the religous right to speak. (Defended quite well since none of the original article is actually quoted to critique or counterpoint. That should be noted in it's merit)
2). Those who disagree with religion in general, and think of it as a con job, poison, or otherwise thing it should be shunned and removed from schools and society.
3). And the commenters who defend the rights for religion, as well as those who hold and share their beliefs in their religion as part of the discussion.

Let's get down to specifics though. The article spends a great deal talking about Australia's rights to freedom of speach to include both religous and political stances. To take that away from such a large foundation of society (schools) must mean there's a great harm in having them freely discussed by children or holding projects that have a religous theme in school. If there is harm be specific in it. What the harm is and to what religion the harm belongs to. After all you all are talking about a very large change in your country where children are not allowed to talk freely within their institutions for education. How can that be a good thing unless it is to counter a drastic and specific harm?

Speaking from the knowledge of a Christian I can tell you that the tenets and teaching of Christianity do not give way to violence, but instead teach to turn the other cheek, bless and pray for those who persecute you. And let vengeance be God's so as to not commit violence yourself. This alone should be enough to encourage a person to faithful trust in God even when they feel justified to retaliate for any reason, as well as encourage people to do good even to those who wrong you. But the teachings of Christianity do not end there. Jesus teaches to be generous and to tend to those who are sick, in prison, poor, and widowed. To be kind and hospitital to the forieners traveling through the lands. And to love God, whom loves the world so so much.

To any of these is there danger? Is there reason for such drastic measure in the school system? Perhaps it's not about the teaching then, perhaps it's about the churches? If that is it then say the harm and be specific in both example and from where it came from. From my experience churches are community builders, where people gather to worship, but while they are there usually makes strides to meets the needs of the community they reside in. In any school that has poor, impoverished, single parent or foster care households having such a foundation to in the community would help in so many ways that it would positively affect the students in troubling scenerios.

While I can not speak for other religions, I can say from this one that the only reason to be angry with Christianity is in discust that it does not conform to your view. And in that discust, if you would rather drastically change your nation and it's freedoms to remove it from the school setting. There had better be a better reason then this for such a change. To do this disservice and pave the path for future disservices requires a very good reason. Make it a good one.
I've tried too but haven't received a verification key to complete the registration
 

Papa Zoom

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#13
So far, I've seen none of you responding to atheists and others on the website for which I provided a link above.

A person who calls himself/herself, TheAtheist (p. 2), wrote:

"There is no dysfunction caused by atheism.
Only dysfunction caused by religious stupidity.
Keep this dysfunction out of our schools".​

How would you reply to him/her in a secular culture?

Oz
I'd ask for some specific examples of this dysfunction
 
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#15
There is no 'reply' icon on this forum. Click on the '45 comments' (that's what it is now) and then click on 'New Post' and away you go with what you want to write.

There's a serious skeptic there, A. J. Phillips. If you want to pursue a dimension of scientific apologetics, he'll give you plenty of ammunition.

Oz
 
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#17
banded,

Then what did you mean by your statement:

If the atheists you describe at that site are to have open hearts it is God's choice to do that, his power only can do that. Because no one comes to Christ unless The Father calls them.​

Thanks,
Oz
 
B

banded butterfly

Guest
#18
banded,

Then what did you mean by your statement:

If the atheists you describe at that site are to have open hearts it is God's choice to do that, his power only can do that. Because no one comes to Christ unless The Father calls them.​

Thanks,
Oz
I meant to invoke the scriptures that teach that.
 
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#19
Joined
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#20
So far, I've seen none of you responding to atheists and others on the website for which I provided a link above.

A person who calls himself/herself, TheAtheist (p. 2), wrote:

"There is no dysfunction caused by atheism.
Only dysfunction caused by religious stupidity.
Keep this dysfunction out of our schools".​

How would you reply to him/her in a secular culture?

Oz
In a certain sense, there really is no such thing as secularism. Remove Christianity from schools and will simply be replaced with another faith-based system of belief and practice, such as Secular Humanism.

All belief systems are faith-based. No exceptions. This is usually the first thing I mention when confronting an atheist who is prancing around on their imaginary high horse accusing Christians of of being "stupid" or "irrational." Usually this sets them back on their heels and they tone down their rhetoric, presumably because it embarrasses them. Many atheists are brainwashed into believing that Christian=stupid. This breeds overconfidence, and they end up overstepping. This sets them up for the following reality check.

They believe in 'something from nothing.'

They believe that time+chance makes anything possible.

Those faith-based assumptions are irrational, stupid, and serve as the foundation of their worldview and informs almost all of their guiding principles. So their worldview is actually faith-based. However, many atheists are seemingly ignorant of this and are not used to Christians pointing it out.

I take it one step further by reminding them that their system of belief and practice is religious. They honor man-wielding-science as God. They have their fanatics, their high priests, their religious rituals, their practice of proselytizing, etc. They also "push" their beliefs on everyone else.

I usually reference the federally recognized religion called Secular Humanism.

First knock them of their fabricated pedestal.

SO my typical opening goes something like this:

Atheist: The world would be better off without religion. We live in the 21st century. It is hard to believe that people still believe in fairy-tales.

Me: So your fairy-tales of 'something from nothing' and 'time+chance makes anything possible' is enough for you? You have placed yourself within your own cross-hairs. You practice a religion, its called Secular Humanism. All belief systems are faith-based. No exceptions. Your fairy-tales are entirely faith-based and they inform nearly all of the guiding principles that make up your worldview.

They then might respond with saying that there is a third option: Agnosticism. I then respond by pointing out that an appeal to ignorance hardly qualifies them to judge creationism. For judging creationism to be false indicates that they are not taking a neutral position.

This is one result of removing Christianity from schools:
 
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