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    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Bible Study Once saved always saved?

Once Saved always Saved?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Continually Saved

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Maybe So

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    11

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I do believe we are saved BY GRACE, and GRACE ALONE, NOT BY WORKS. But the Bible is also very clear about what is expected of us once we are saved. In Ephesians 2:8-10 it is clear we are not saved 'as a result of works', but after receiving His salvation we should prove our faith by what we do for we are 'His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR GOOD WORKS, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.'

The Bible clearly states, and I quote the NASB version, that 'no one will snatch them out of My hand'. True, no question there. But what if that person chooses to go out of the Father's hand? We all have been given free will, the choice of life and death, blessing and cursing. I do believe a Christian is secure in Christ but the Bible does give conditions for remaining in His love. 'If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as i have kept my father's commandments, and abide in his love'. 'If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.' I don't think that the conditional security of the believer belittles God's mercy, the fact that He died for us 'while we were yet sinners' is proof enough of God's love for us but He is also a just God - He cannot, He will not, and He will never condone sin.

'Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith, Be not high-minded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF THOU CONTINUE in his goodness: OTHERWISE THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF.
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.'


'But God cannot go back on His promises', some will say. True, God has promised salvation to those who believe - but He has also given His word about what will happen to those who don't believe or forsake Him. He cannot break those promises too. He clearly states in His Word what He will do to those believers who make a choice to forsake Him and to those who don't listen to His Word - those are promises that He cannot break. The Bible reiterates that salvation is for those who believe, for those who love Him - and the Bible is clear that to love Him and to believe in Him is to obey Him. Yes, God has never and will never break a single promise to His Children - just don't forget that He always gives us two choices. If we choose His righteousness He has a promise for that, and if we choose to do evil even after we have received Him God also made a promise about that - and as everyone knows, God never goes back on a promise.

'And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But whoso keepeth His Word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him.
He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked.'


'They that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation' - Yes, we did not receive salvation because of works but He did give a condition that once we receive Him we should obey Him. 'And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?'

His sacrifice is so precious and so sacred that when we sin wilfully we are treading 'under foot the Son of God' and counting 'the blood of the covenant' wherewith we have been sanctified, 'an unholy thing' and are doing 'despite unto the Spirit of Grace'.

'What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid, How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?'

'What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.'

Being under grace does not give us a license to sin - our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has also given a promise about what He will do to those who continue in Sin or go back to sin despite having tasted of the heavenly gift.

'For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you.
They are godless men, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered His people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.'


'But if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will APPOINT HIM HIS PORTION WITH THE UNBELIEVERS.' - We all know what the portion of the unbelievers is.


And take Matthew 22 verse 1-14 for example. The wedding parable is about God's invitation to salvation. The guests are those who accepted His invitation. But when you accept the invitation, you are supposed to take of your old nature and clothe yourself with His righteousness. 'And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: (Romans13:13-14 has something about clothing ourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, also Ephesians 4:20-24)
And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
For many are called, but few are chosen.'


He is a merciful and loving God - but He is also a just and fearful God. Time and again, He destroyed those of His chosen people who did not believe. 'Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted...Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents...Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.'

As I stated at the start, Salvation is by grace and grace alone - ABSOLUTELY NOT of works. But we need to remember that Christ died to save us from sin - to continue in sin after receiving Him and to claim that a person is still saved is a claim the Bible clearly and explicitly repudates. It's tantamount to saying that God condones sin - it totally defeats the purpose of His sacrifice on the cross. Yes, NOBODY can ever claim to be without sin but God has laid down the sins that are unto death. Sins that NO ONE who does them, saved or not, could ever inherit HIS kingdom. Those are the WILFULL SINS. When you snap at someone, or say something wrong, or lose your temper - those aren't premeditated sins, not wilfull sins. 'Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication...Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred...murders, drunkenness...and such like" of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.' When a Christian commits adultery or fornication those are sins where he or she has to make a conscious decision to sin - to trample on His death and insult the Spirit of grace. That is wilfull - on cannot say, oh, I just stumbled and next thing I knew this girl was right there. :) The problem I have with the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved (aside from the fact that there is absolutely no verse in the Bible that says that) is because many of its proponents actually claim that even if you die while commiting adultery, if you commit suicide, if you die in the act of fornication, if you had accepted Christ before you are still saved. That is not grace but a disgrace. Where is the purity of Christian life? How are we different from the world if Christ has no standards?

'Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot?' 'What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?' - It is very clear that His Spirit will never be one with an harlot so the moment a Christian commits that sin the Spirit will surely leave that person and we know that anyone who dies WITHOUT the Spirit has no seal because the Spirit is the seal. Or are we to believe that the HOLY SPIRIT (I believe we all know what HOLY means) will continue to stay in a person while that very same person is commiting a sin unto death and actUally 'insulting the SPIRIT OF GRACE'?
 
Georges said:
Is it possible to be blotted out of the Lambs book of Life once you have been saved?
YES !
It is possible....otherwise Matthew 7:21-23 would not....have been wrritten.


Exodus 32:33 "And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book".

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne".

Revelation 22:19 "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book".
NOTICE: The Secret Rapture theory, as currently taugth has twisted the prophecies, of the Book of Revelation.[/b]
 
gingercat said:
There are so many warnings about being faithful until end in the NT. Why is He giving us many warnings if our salvation is secured like OSAS supporters are claiming?
Real simple - look at the context of those "endurings" and being faithful until the end. You better find out what that "end" is referring to - they are dealing with a future period of time called the great tribulation - not the church age today. And most of the time the enduring has to do with saving ones physical life not spiritual life.

Why not take Paul? Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

or...

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Which would are you going to hang your hat on? Paul for this age or enduring to the end during the future tribulation where God is dealing with Jews n ot saints in the body of Christ today? Be honest now.

God bless
 
gingercat said:
AV says:
Real simple -
AV, those endurings are both now and future tribulation.
Let's get more "real simple" here - if you are counting on "your" enduring then you are counting on you which means you are not counting on Christ alone.

By the way - what about the verse I quoted that nobody ever comments on here...?

Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Where is your enduring in the above verse?

God bless
 
gingercat said:
I am His faithful follower. .
And you are admitting here that it is your faith you are trusting. How does your statement line up with...

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ,

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus...

So Ginger - where is your great faith in the above verses?

You have not responded to any of the verses I mentoned in my previous posts - why is that?

gingercat said:
If we are not faithful in keeping them, we are not allowed into His kingdom.
Pure works - self-reliance at its best - works salvation in all its self-righteous glory - a salvation dependent upon your faith and works - Christ is nowhere to be found in your above quote.

The gospel has been hid from you - II Cor. 4:3.
 
gingercat said:
Oh, come on, just because I want to be fatihful to Him you are telling me I am relying on my works? I am just listening to what He is saying. If I am relying on myself I will not be a Christian. Why is it so hard to understand obedience to Him? :smt021
Obedience is good - being faithful is good - but what is the end of your seeking to be obedient and faithiful? Is your end salvation based upon your seeking to be good and faithful? Your quote below answers the above....

Again - how do you explain your quote below in light of your above quote?.

gincercat said:
If we are not faithful in keeping them, we are not allowed into His kingdom.
You have yet to answer or respond to one question I presented or one verse I brought up.
 
gingercat said:
Faith is all about believing in Him. He says that if you love Him keep His commandments. How can you say you are saved if you don't love Him? :smt014
I'm speaking of church age justification - the Lord is dealing with Israel before he even died.

Find out first what the gospel is for today and then you won't get confused with Gospel teachings.

One more time - faith is scriptural - works are scriptural but do not justify - they come as a result of being regenerated and justified.

Position and Standing
This is how God sees you after he saved you and put you in His dear Son and seated you in heavenly places in Christ. God knows that because of the sin nature in us He has to declare us righteous even though we are not. God can do this because Christ has taken our place at Calvary and on this basis God declares us righteous. So “in the books†the saint, from God’s standpoint, is perfect, as though he never sinned or ever will sin. It has to be this way because if not we have no hope!

Practical and State
This is how we are down here. We are still stuck in these vile bodies that like to sin (Rom. 7). Because of the sin nature still in us we are in a fight daily. So, most of the time our state is a wreck. Sins are associated with our state.

I think what people do is to look at their “state†and are counting on their “state†to ultimately determine their “standing†before God.

If you are saved the standing is settled. Does this mean you can quit now that Jesus “took and passed the final exam for you� No, we should strive to be all that God has called us to be.

Our duty then?

Doctrine – Ephesians chapters 1-3 tells you your standing in Christ. Then, Eph. 4-6 tells you how to walk because of that standing. Eph. 4:1: “I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called.â€Â

In other words, “Now that you are perfect in Christ, walk your position heavenly position down here.†Up there (heaven) is victory, holiness, forgiveness, and assurance. Are you going to fail down here? Yes, so by the power of the Spirit and the instruction from the word as it is read and preached from the pulpit we are equipped to walk worthy of the vocation wherewith we are called.

What happens when one doesn’t know his standing. He looks at his state. One day it is Alabama, one day it is Oregon, and the next day it is New York. No stability and assurance there. Then he begins to try harder, goes up and down in his walk, gets discouraged, and finally is in despair because he thinks his state will determine his standing. A lot of time he even gives up because he gets too discouraged.

When a saint understands his standing and grace then he is so thankful, assured, and comforted that he is able to endure his vile flesh for he knows he is safe. He is on guard and prepared for he knows it will take the power of God to finish the work that has been done (Phil 1:6).

God bless
 
gingercat said:
My position and understanding is that as long as you believe in Him and follow Him until the end you are safe.
Prov 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

And here lies the issue - you are safe as long as you believe and you follow. Ginger - this is you trusting you not you trusting Christ. This is not resting upon Christ alone. This teaching is a denial of Pauliine truths where the saint is safe in Christ and justifed in God's eyes because of what Christ did at Calvary.

Come let us reason together - according to the following verse you tell me how a man is justifed...

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ,

Your view can produce no assurance for you may quit believing and following tomorrow.
 
gingercat said:
Your interpretation is all out of context.
You've proved nothing - you provided no scripture - just your own, personal philiosphy of what you think sounds good to you.

You are resting in your own works and faith.
 
I do not believe in the once saved always saved mindset. I believe if you were once saved, and then you reject Christianity, you were never saved.

If you truly accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and have faith that it is real, you will be saved. I also don't think it ends there. I think you need to pursue Him and once you do, you'll encounter Him. How can people who were saved at one time have encountered God and reject Him? It makes no sense. If you feel and encounter God's love first hand, you'll never turn away. Therefore, I think that if you aren't now, you never were.
 
Sorry for the double post! The deleate buttom escaped me also :oops: :wink: !
 
gingercat said:
Oh, come on, just because I want to be fatihful to Him you are telling me I am relying on my works? I am just listening to what He is saying. If I am relying on myself I will not be a Christian. Why is it so hard to understand obedience to Him? :smt021

*****
You asked the above question? It is answered by Christ in John 3:3 "Ye must be Born Again". And the only ones Born Again are seen in Acts 5:32's OBEDIENCE to the Holy Ghost!

Simply stated by Christ, "IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS".
So here are at least three reasons given by the Godhead for the answer for your question of... [why it is so hard to understand obedience to Him.] :sad

You might also check out the Word as seen in 1 John 4:6 in the K.J. But do not let this bother you, for there are others here who do understand! :fadein: :wink:

--John
 
Georges said:
Is it possible to be blotted out of the Lambs book of Life once you have been saved?

What is the Book of Life anyway? Is it a Jewish term or a Christian term?

What I mean by Continually saved is just that.....Sin breaks the saved state, repentance (Asking for) reinstates saved state.....a continuous cycle.

Yes.....means, no matter what, if you've accepted Christ, you are saved.

No.....means....no, you do not enjoy an unconditional perpetual state of being saved. Once you sin, or sin unrepentently repeatedly, your name is blotted out of the Book of Life.
It is an easy matter to become saved in the first place.
BUT...it requires MUCH PRAYER, and Bible study ...to stay saved !

Once a person asks Jesus to forgive them their sins, the slate is clean.
The problem then, becomes....to keep that slate clean !
 
Jay T said:
Georges said:
Is it possible to be blotted out of the Lambs book of Life once you have been saved?

What is the Book of Life anyway? Is it a Jewish term or a Christian term?

What I mean by Continually saved is just that.....Sin breaks the saved state, repentance (Asking for) reinstates saved state.....a continuous cycle.

Yes.....means, no matter what, if you've accepted Christ, you are saved.

No.....means....no, you do not enjoy an unconditional perpetual state of being saved. Once you sin, or sin unrepentently repeatedly, your name is blotted out of the Book of Life.
It is an easy matter to become saved in the first place.
BUT...it requires MUCH PRAYER, and Bible study ...to stay saved !

Once a person asks Jesus to forgive them their sins, the slate is clean.
The problem then, becomes....to keep that slate clean !

So where does the bible say when we lose our salvation? :o How many Sundays can we miss, or the times we've stayed home and not helped the needy, or how many times can we curse someone in traffic, or how many possessions can we own, or what if we eat too much? How many glasses of wine can we have :o Please tell us when the bible tells us our salvation is gone, Jay.

But the bible tells us that we are freed from these rules and regulations and James tells us that if we stumble just once we are guilty of breaking the whole law. So what do we do? We're lost because Christ died for nothing! His death was a complete waste of time because it does not save us, our works save us, even though that contradicts scripture. But who cares what scripture says? What we say goes. In your dreams.

Jesus's death on the cross takes away our sins! He is our permanent sacrifice once and for all. And as he says, all who believe that will be saved. You obviously don't believe that so I can see why you doubt your salvation. Therefore, I doubt your salvation also.
 
Heidi - Do you believe it is not possible for someone to receive the gift of eternal life, and to turn away from the righteousness that is in Christ Jesus, thereby being in danger of eternal damnation?
 
First off J.T., there is a message for you also! :sad Read the K.J. in Ezekiel 33:29-32.

Then for the other questions? Read the K.J. in Ezekiel 33:12-12. Also Ezekiel 33:18-19. Or again Ezekiel 18:24 & the Ezekiel 18:32

---John
 
mutzrein said:
Heidi - Do you believe it is not possible for someone to receive the gift of eternal life, and to turn away from the righteousness that is in Christ Jesus, thereby being in danger of eternal damnation?

The bible says it is not possible and I have quoted those verses, Mutzrein. Not one word of scripture is a lie. Again, The true sheep of Christ listen to his voice, the false ones don't.

Also, once the Holy Spirit enters a person, it cannot then jump back outside of a person. The bible also says that if we stumble just once, we are guilty of breaking the whole law. So people who think they can lose their salvation by obeying the law are up a creek without a paddle because we all stumble. But those who believe Jesus saved us through his death, will have the glories of heaven. They come to Jesus for rest, not their own good deeds like the Jews still do.

Paul also tells us that some will still be saved, but on as "one escaping through the flames." he makes it quite clear that some Christians will bear more fruit than others and still be saved. :)
 
Heide, I thought you said you don't follow theologeans interpretations. It seems you are following OSAS theology.
 
gingercat said:
Heide, I thought you said you don't follow theologeans interpretations. It seems you are following OSAS theology.

*****
Not only that, but she is quoting a scripture/less 'message' with her profession!

Read these in the King James translation.
King Saul was given the 'Spirit God', then the 'Spirit God was taken' from him. 1 Samuel 10:6, 1 Samuel 11:6, & 1 Samuel 16:14, and then satan took over. :sad

Nor did the Godhead ever again speak to King Saul, as seen in 1 Samuel 28:5-6. And the reason why, had nothing to do with trying to earn salvation, but for just plain DISOBEDIENCE! 1 Samuel 15:17-23.
There is the 'FINISHED' product of following God in profession only. Genesis 6:3 See 1 Samuel 16:22-23, this is of special enlightenment. :crying:

What is rebellion??? The opposite of Romans 8:14 (see Matthew 12:31-32)

For you who can accept this, you can also see Genesis 4:7 with the same mature message of the 'rebellous' mature person.

---John
 
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