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No, it doesn't. Jesus SAID very clearly that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.

If you examine what the whole verse, with it's context, you see that the word "and" is part of verse 28, and it connects with the previous verse with the condition.

And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:28

No, it wasn't. v.27 describes who the "them" and "they" are in v.28. Which is literally "My sheep". Which means believers in Christ.

And doesn't describe anything, as "and" is not a description, it's a conjunction, which is a word that connects [not describes] other words and phrases.

Like I said, the word "and" connects what Jesus had just said, with what Jesus is about to say.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

  • His sheep are those who obey; those who hear Him and follow Him and He gives them eternal life.



JLB
 
I said this:
"Jesus SAID very clearly that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH."
If you examine what the whole verse, with it's context, you see that the word "and" is part of verse 28, and it connects with the previous verse with the condition.
The "and" doesn't change what Jesus promised about recipients of eternal life.

What is clear is this: What Jesus GIVES believers MEANS they WILL NEVER PERISH. That is eternal security. It all depends on Him.

And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:28
v.27 is about His sheep, the ones identified as "them" and "they" in v.28.

Jesus gives His sheep eternal life, and they will never perish.

Which text teaches that He doesn't give eternal life to some of His sheep?

And doesn't describe anything, as "and" is not a description, it's a conjunction, which is a word that connects [not describes] other words and phrases.
Still doesn't change the promise Jesus made about recipients of eternal lifel; they will never perish.

Like I said, the word "and" connects what Jesus had just said, with what Jesus is about to say.
So far, nothing has been proven to change the clear words and meaning of Jesus' promise to recipients of eternal life; they WILL NEVER PERISH.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28
Who does He give eternal life to? His sheep. Period. What follows "My sheep" at the beginning of v.27 is a description of His sheep.

His sheep are those who obey; those who hear Him and follow Him and He gives them eternal life.
JLB
The truth is that His sheep, on the basis of being GIVEN eternal life, WILL NEVER PERISH.

This is eternal security.
 
Can you present a verse that says a person IN Christ can be snatched out of Jesus' hand and no longer be IN Christ?

I can present a verse that says a person in Christ, can be removed from Him.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:2


JLB
 
I can present a verse that says a person in Christ, can be removed from Him.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:2


JLB
There are several thought on this issue...here's one.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit,.... There are two sorts of branches in Christ the vine; the one sort are such who have only an historical faith in him, believe but for a time, and are removed; they are such who only profess to believe in him, as Simon Magus did; are in him by profession only; they submit to outward ordinances, become church members, and so are reckoned to be in Christ, being in a church state, as the churches of Judea and Thessalonica, and others, are said, in general, to he in Christ; though it is not to be thought that every individual person in these churches were truly and savingly in him. These branches are unfruitful ones; what fruit they seemed to have, withers away, and proves not to be genuine fruit; what fruit they bring forth is to themselves, and not to the glory of God Gills
 
There are several thought on this issue...here's one.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit,.... There are two sorts of branches in Christ the vine; the one sort are such who have only an historical faith in him, believe but for a time, and are removed; they are such who only profess to believe in him, as Simon Magus did; are in him by profession only; they submit to outward ordinances, become church members, and so are reckoned to be in Christ, being in a church state, as the churches of Judea and Thessalonica, and others, are said, in general, to he in Christ; though it is not to be thought that every individual person in these churches were truly and savingly in him. These branches are unfruitful ones; what fruit they seemed to have, withers away, and proves not to be genuine fruit; what fruit they bring forth is to themselves, and not to the glory of God Gills


Brother, you ca come up with all the "commentary" you like on this verse and any other verse in the bible, but that won't change what Jesus plainly said.

Why not discuss the actual words and phrases that Jesus used, if we are both honest about what these words mean, and about the actual words He used, then we will discover the truth.

  • Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:2
People are in Him, or they are not.

Those who are in Christ have eternal life, which is where eternal life is. He is eternal life.

His Spirit is the Spirit of Life, which is in Christ Jesus.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2

and again

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

Is there any other source of eternal life, outside of Christ Jesus?

  • If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

  • If anyone does not abide in Me

"Anyone" is a reference to people who are in Christ.
"he" is a reference to a person in Christ.
"They" is a reference to people who are in Christ.

People who are in Christ, who do not remain in Christ, will be gathered up and thrown into the fire and burned.

If a branch is thrown into the fire and burned, does it still have the life in it, it once had when joined to the vine?




The key to Jn.15:2 is "in me". The question then is, how does one get into Christ to be "in" Christ?


Believe, the Gospel.

Which ultimately means obey the Gospel commandment: Repent.


Unbelief is disobedience; same Greek work, and is used interchangeably between versions.


Righteousness, Faith, Love, Justification all have the same common principle: Obedience.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith. Romans 16:26



JLB
 
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Is there a scripture which says one "repents" into Christ? The key is "in me" and the question is how do I get into Christ to be in that "vine" wherein are "all spiritual blessings in heavenly places IN CHRIST", Eph.1:3 (emp. mine)
 
Is there a scripture which says one "repents" into Christ? The key is "in me" and the question is how do I get into Christ to be in that "vine" wherein are "all spiritual blessings in heavenly places IN CHRIST", Eph.1:3 (emp. mine)

The answer to how someone gets to be "in Christ" is believe, which means obey the Gospel.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 1:8

and again

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:8-16


Believing the Gospel, means obeying the Gospel.

The way we obey the Gospel, which says, Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand, is to confess Jesus as Lord.

Repent is the command of the Gospel.

  • Not repent of your sins.

Repent means to turn to God.

If you are called to turn to God, then by default you are called to turn from Satan as your lord.

  • The way that your express this obedience of faith, concerning the Gospel is to confess Jesus as Lord.

This is what grants the believer/obeyer of the Gospel, the forgiveness of sins.


Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38


Peter did not say "repent of your sins".


A person can not "stop sinning" without the born again new Nature empowered by the Holy Spirit.

The way we are granted this, is by repenting, which means turning away from Satan and his kingdom, and turning to God, and confessing Jesus as Lord.

This is plainly what the Lord Jesus Christ taught to and commissioned Paul to do.

15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ Acts 26:15-18


Repent is about being transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God.

It's about changing who you serve, as your Lord.

The Gospel of the kingdom is about changing the kingdom your are in, by changing the lord you serve.

This is done by obeying the Gospel.


JLB
 
You have yet to supply one verse which says one repents into Christ. I do not deny for a moment the necessity of repentance for Jesus said "except you repent ye shall all likewise perish" Lk.13:3. Obey the gospel? Of course! But the question is at WHAT point (if I may use the term) in obeying the gospel is one "in" Christ, a "branch" Jn.15:2 "in" Christ?? All spiritual blessing are "in" Christ, teaches Eph.1:3, but how does one get "into" Christ to enjoy such splendid "blessings"??

God bless, Billy
 
You have yet to supply one verse which says one repents into Christ. I do not deny for a moment the necessity of repentance for Jesus said "except you repent ye shall all likewise perish" Lk.13:3. Obey the gospel? Of course! But the question is at WHAT point (if I may use the term) in obeying the gospel is one "in" Christ, a "branch" Jn.15:2 "in" Christ?? All spiritual blessing are "in" Christ, teaches Eph.1:3, but how does one get "into" Christ to enjoy such splendid "blessings"??

God bless, Billy

Is this repentance the initial act of salvation where the person realizes Gods message of salvation is true and turns from their own method of salvation...OR....turning from sin through out ones lifetime? Or, if you like present a 3rd or 4th take on the word repentance.
 
The answer to how someone gets to be "in Christ" is believe, which means obey the Gospel.

Can you provide us a few points on obeying? For example if you don't...love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself....your not really obeying.
...but I ask, considering no christian really has the ability to place a check next to the commandment above....so what happens to all the "christians"? Are they in or out?
 
Well, t's been changed to be conditionalized.
"those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH......IF....."
And there's the rub. Those who believe that a saved person can end up perishing always add the "if..." clause, yet there's none to be found in what Jesus said about what He gives, to whom He gives it, and the result of receiving it. No conditions.

But some just can't help adding some kind of "if..." clause.

Or, instead of an "if..." clause, a "as long as..." kind of clause. Which means the same thing. A condition.
 
Brother, you ca come up with all the "commentary" you like on this verse and any other verse in the bible, but that won't change what Jesus plainly said.
OK, let's take a look at what Jesus plainly said in John 10:28 -

" I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

Jesus said:

"I give believers/My sheep eternal life and they shall never perish." John 10:28

v.28 tells to whom Jesus gives.

v.28 tells us WHAT Jesus gives.

v.28 tells us the RESULT of what Jesus GIVES to WHOM.

Jesus gives to His sheep. These are believers.

Jesus gives eternal life to believers, who are recipients of eternal life.

Recipients of eternal life will never perish.

This isn't even close to arguable. Jesus spoke in plain language here. No metaphors, no figures of speech. Just straight talk about eternal security.
 
Is this repentance the initial act of salvation where the person realizes Gods message of salvation is true and turns from their own method of salvation...OR....turning from sin through out ones lifetime? Or, if you like present a 3rd or 4th take on the word repentance.
Hi Cygnus--I understand the "initial act of salvation" would be hearing the gospel, Rom.10:14. This however, should not take away the fact that one can read for himself the gospel straight from the NT rather than hear from the preacher.

God bless
 
OK, let's take a look at what Jesus plainly said in John 10:28 -

" I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

That's not what John 10:28 says, you left out the word, the conjunction, that connects the condition for being sheep, in the previous verse.

If you examine what the whole verse, with it's context, you see that the word "and" is part of verse 28, and it connects with the previous verse with the condition.

And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:28

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

  • His sheep are those who obey; those who hear Him and follow Him and He gives them eternal life.

If they don't do this, then they can indeed become lost, like Judas, and the examples Jesus gave.



JLB
 
Can you provide us a few points on obeying? For example if you don't...love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself....your not really obeying.
...but I ask, considering no christian really has the ability to place a check next to the commandment above....so what happens to all the "christians"? Are they in or out?

Can you provide us a few points on obeying? For example if you don't...love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself....your not really obeying.
...but I ask, considering no christian really has the ability to place a check next to the commandment above....so what happens to all the "christians"? Are they in or out?

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 1:8

and again

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:8-16


Believing the Gospel, means obeying the Gospel.


JLB
 
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