Discussion in 'End Times' started by Apousía, Oct 25, 2017.

  1. Apousía

    Apousía Member

    Sep 21, 2017
    I would like to start a discussion on Palmoni ( Book of Daniel ), as it seems to be an oft-overlooked topic that is actually quite central to " end times " hermeneutics,

    Thank you
  2. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

    Dec 23, 2010
    State of Jefferson
    Apousía It might be helpful if to pick a passage to open the discussion.. :) Welcome to CFnet :wave2
  3. Apousía

    Apousía Member

    Sep 21, 2017
    Sure thing

    פלמוני palmowniy {pal-mo-nee'} - that certain ,) a certain one

    Dan 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain ( פלמוני palmowniy ) saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
  4. Eugene

    Eugene Staff Member Moderator

    Aug 24, 2012
    I look forward to it. :)
  5. Eugene

    Eugene Staff Member Moderator

    Aug 24, 2012
    Of course Dan 8:14 gives us the answer: "And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."
    To me the question was "When does the two thousand and three hundred days begin. That is told us in Dan 12:11, "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." This means to me that thirty days prior to the temptation to come upon all the world the daily sacrifice is taken away.
    I'll be interested in your take on this.
  6. Apousía

    Apousía Member

    Sep 21, 2017
    Well, the first thing I do is look at word roots:

    " Certain " = palmoni , is from the word:

    peloniy = " certain " , which is from the word:

    " Palah "

    Palah is a word that has very important meaning :

    - sever , separated , wonderfully , set apart , marvellous , put a difference, to be distinct, marked out, be separated, be distinguished ) (Niphal) to be distinct, be separated, be distinguished ) to be wonderful ) (Hiphil) to make separate, set apart

    The reason the word " Palah " is important, is that it ties into the topic of the " messiah " being " cut off "

    Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    The things concerning " the sanctuary " are covered in the Kodashim and the tractate concerning " keritot " and being " karet " ( cut off ), from Strong's Hebrew 3772

    The following from Wikipedia :

    " Kodashim or Kod'shim or Qodhashim (Hebrew: קדשים‎‎ "Holy Things") is the fifth Order in the Mishnah (also the Tosefta and Talmud). Of the six Orders of the Mishnah, it is the third longest. Kodoshim deals largely with the religious service within the Temple in Jerusalem, the qorbanot ("sacrificial offerings"), and other subjects considered or related to these "Holy Things "

    The 7th tractate of the Kodashim is:


    (כריתות) means "Excisions"; Deals with the commandments for which the penalty is karet ( cut off ) ("spiritual excision") as well as the sacrifices associated with their (mostly unwitting) transgression

    This in itself is important in the context of the High Priest becoming ritually impure and requiring cleansing in the bath ( mikveh )

    " Cutting off " is also a central Bible topic, starting with Adam and Eve being " cut off " from Eden ( Why this is overlooked is beyond me...)

    As far as being " set aside / cut off ", we can turn to the word " holy "

    " Holy " , from Strong's #6945: qadesh (pronounced kaw-dashe')

    from 6942; qadash, - a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry:-- sodomite, unclean.


    " become consecrated (2), become defiled (1), become holy (1), consecrate (43), consecrated (35), consecrates (7), consecration (2), declare holy (1), dedicate (2), dedicated (8), dedicating (1), holier (1), holy (5), keep (1), keep it holy (2), keep the holy (3), made it holy (1), manifest my holiness (2), prepare (2), prove myself holy (2), proved himself holy (1), purified (1), regard as holy (1), sanctified (9), sanctifies (10), sanctify (12), set them apart (1), set apart (4), set apart the consecrated (2), show himself holy (1), transmit holiness (2), treat me as holy (3), treated as holy (1), vindicate the holiness (1), wholly dedicate (1) "

    This shows the connection between the root of Palmoni ( palah ) and the root word " holy " itself


    Another interesting bit is this:

    When we examine Genesis 1:1, we find the only untranslated word to be the " Aleph-Tav " ( or alpha-omega if you prefer ) which we all know is another sobriquet of Christ:

    In the beginning
    Aleph-Tav ( untranslated )
    the earth

    Note that " palah " ( the root of peloniy ) also means " marked out "

    When we examine the root of " aleph-tav " we find it to be from the word " owth " first used in Genesis 1:14

    " And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs,( owth ) and for seasons, and for days, and years "

    אות 'owth {oth} - sign(s) 60, token(s) 14, ensign(s) 2, miracles 2, mark 1; 79 1) sign, signal 1a) a distinguishing mark 1b) banner 1c) remembrance 1d) miraculous sign 1e) omen 1f) warning 2) token, ensign, standard, miracle, proof

    Aleph-Tav ( eth ) from " owth " ( / omen / eclipse /sign / mark ) connecting to ( Palmoni-peloniy- Palah - marked out -set aside )

    Interesting in light of:

    Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign ( owth ); Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel

    a virgin עלמה- `almah


    עלם `elem {eh'-lem} - young man , stripling


    עלם `alam {aw-lam'} a primitive root; - hide 22, blind 1, dissemblers 1, hidden 1, secret 1, secret thing 1, any ways 1; 28 1) to conceal, hide, be hidden, be concealed, be secret 1a) (Qal) secret (participle) 1b) (Niphal) 1b1) to be concealed 1b2) concealed, dissembler (participle) 1c) (Hiphil) to conceal, hide 1d) (Hithpael) to hide oneself

    I found these connections intriguing in light of the margin note made on Palmoni:

    " wonderful numberer of secrets "


    That's about as much as I could offer, currently without launching into a large post on what " floods " ( Daniel 9:26 ) are, both in the Bible as well as pre-biblical literature and flood terminologies ( Which take 3 separate but related forms in ancient literature )

    I'd also have to delve into Hebrew gematria to really break the topic wide open, but from my experience traveling forums, people have an aversion to anything involving mathematics { " numberer of secrets "), so I will refrain for the time being

    Thanks again, everybody for taking an interest !
  7. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

    Dec 23, 2010
    State of Jefferson
    I think you are a bit over my head.. :neutral
    I gave this word a quick 'look-up' gematria...
    In your opinion does this have anything to do with Hebrew being a 'mathematical ' language.. IF you even thing that? That is something i heard/learned/knew/understood something from way back in the 50s?
  8. JohnDB

    JohnDB Staff Member Moderator

    Aug 16, 2015
    In the Gospel of the end when Peter and John had been fishing all night and caught nothing but Jesus told them to cast to the other side and they brought up a bunch of large fish.
    The number of fish they brought up is the numerical sum of a well known Hebrew expression known as Bene Elohim.
    This means "sons of God". Gematria works both ways. Numbers are words and words are numbers. Number/word games were a popular teaching method and puzzles.
  9. ezrider

    ezrider Member

    Jul 21, 2011
    in the meadows
    The word "palmoni" doesn't stand out as being significant to me in and of itself. But if palmoni is the certain one as is relates to the book of Daniel, then I am certain Jesus is the certain one, the little horn, the horn of our salvation, the Horn of David.

    Perhaps you would like to look over a study I did on the Little Horn of the book of Daniel.
  10. Apousía

    Apousía Member

    Sep 21, 2017

    OK, good questions, thank you for your patience, I know some of the topics I study are not well known

    The method by which gematria is done is really nothing more than a simple cipher, in that numbers are substituted for letters

    Like A becomes 6, B becomes 12, C becomes 18, and so on and so forth

    In that above example, the " base set " chosen is base 6, in that every letter's value in the alphabet is a multiple of 6 ( 6,12,18,24...)

    The norm in gematria is to say that some word " A " with a value " x " links to some word " B " with the same value " x "

    It's become a very convoluted subject over the years because people have taken liberties to invent their own types of gematria, basically mixing and matching any alphabet, and using any base set that " fits " to produce their " patterns ", and just making up random rules for these transformations

    This is evident with a simple read of even the Wikipedia page, where we find many types of gematria described

    Now, the first thing to point out is that when we make arbitrary rules in mathematics that will lead to " discoveries " that we were really trying to force out by making up an arbitrary base set, we are fooling ourselves with confirmation bias

    This is easily demonstrated by taking English phrases and applying the classical base set that is normally reserved for only Hebrew:

    " Number of a man Barak Obama " = 666
    " 666 is all hidden in a name Sarah L. Palin " = 666
    " reptilian microchips " = 666

    By doing so ( making up rules or applying bases meant solely for Hebrew ) one can make any word or phrase equal anything they like

    " Papa smurf " in English gematria = 666

    I don't know about you guys, but I'm fairly certain that Papa smurf is not Satan.....yet in the case of Obama, these gematria were considered " undeniable proof " that Obama was Satan.....we see how that turned out ( Just hit Google for all those creative pics people made of Obama as Satan if you need reminding, or see the numerous video " proofs " on youtube that seem to have been quickly forgotten )

    There are practically countless websites on gematria with lists of words / phrases equaling some value " x "

    The convolution in gematria really stems from Rabbis of old, who over time " created " forms of gematria by making up rules for these alphabetic transforms, when in fact there is only one type from which all spring from, using one base set, and one alphabet

    So how exactly are we supposed to make sense of what seems completely random ?

    Most normal folks would look at it all and just throw their hands up in frustration and say " it's all Greek to me "

    If anybody can make up any rules to make any word / phrase have a value they are seeking, then there is no rigorous mathematics involved, and for something to have validity in the world of mathematics, it needs to be rigorous , iow, thorough and provable

    To make sense of it all, we need to examine the history of gematria and where exactly it stems from

    The first to use numbers substituted for words were Mesopotamian societies like the Babylonians

    A god's name was written in cuneiform with a number, for example:

    " Sin ", the name of the god of the moon, was written as the number 30

    This in turn was based on their metrological ( measurement ) conventions in astronomy

    The luni-solar month is the moon ( Sin / 30 ) passing through 30° of arc ( nominal ), defined in the measuring unit known as a " beru ", sometimes written as " be'ru " or " bu'ru ", simultaneously a measure of length, time, and distance, thereby encoding the basic d/t = s formula we all know from high school physics ( distance / time = speed )

    The nominal month length was 29.53... days, this is a calculated average ( the months actually all vary in length )

    So the practice of using numbers subbed for letters is ancient, and predates the Bible by quite some time

    This in turn provides the basis for the writing in Revelation where a " a name is a number "

    Gematria, however, is not the practice of calculating values for letters / phrases / words,rather it is the attempt to connect things that have the same calculated values

    We can trace the switch from paleo-Hebrew to Aramaic scripts, to the roughly the time of Babylonian captivity, as this is when not only were the final ( sofit ) forms of the letters were created ( which is what we find the Bible's Hebrew to be written with ) and we can easily trace the conventions of gematria to that exact same time / culture ( Babylonians )

    This is where it gets interesting....

    The first type of gematria used by the Jews was known as " Mispar Gadol ", often referred to as " standard gematria "

    It uses a base set that is not like the example base 6 set for the English alphabet I gave earlier in the post, rather there are 3 separate bases used for the 22 letters and 5 sofit forms in Hebrew:

    The first 9 letters are valued with the numbers 1-10
    The second 9 letters are valued with the numbers 10-90
    The third 9 letters ( 4 letters + 5 sofit letters ) are valued with the numbers 100-900

    Seems simple enough so far, right ?

    When we total the alphabet, we find that

    1-9 + 10-90 + 100-900 = 4995 then we have to turn to numbers like 666 to fully gain insight

    Often, you will find numerologists making claims like:

    " 888 is God's number "
    " 777 is God's number "


    ...because " 777 is the number of completion " or some other fallacious statement

    In mathematics, numbers like 666 and 888 are called " repdigits " ( repeating digits ) or " repunits " ( repeating units )

    A repunit can be a number like 666666666666666666666 or 66, or 6666666

    Numbers like 666 are colloquially known as " triple repdigits " for the 3 digits that repeat

    The first mistake numerologists make is in excluding certain numbers from their studies because " 666 is evil " or some other tosh

    Because, as it turns out, the sum of the triple repunits:

    111+222+333.....+666+777+888+999 = 4995

    ...was cleverly disguised by mathematicians in Babylon when they redistributed the sum over the " Hebrew " alphabet by breaking it into three separate sets:

    The first 9 letters = 1-10
    The second 9 letters = 10-90
    The third 9 letters ( 4 letters + 5 sofit letters ) = 100-900

    Hebrew gematria base sum = 1-9 + 10-90 + 100-900 = 4995
    repdigit sum = 111+222+333.....+666+777+888+999 = 4995

    Did you know / understand that in the 50's, Reba ?


    Now, one would ask; " What does this have to do with Palmoni ?

    That really is the thread topic
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  11. Apousía

    Apousía Member

    Sep 21, 2017

    Thanks !

    I will check it out

    Were you aware that " horn " in Hebrew ( qeren ) is cognate to the Akkadian " qarnu " ( horn ) which is a fundamental unit of Mesopotamian mathematical astronomy ?

    This unit was used for measuring things like eclipse magnitudes ( with eclipses referred to as " floods " ) , moon phases ( also referred to as " floods " ) and apparent distances, and was also known as a " finger ", and represents 3600 arcseconds / or 60 arcminutes or 1° of arc, approximate ( saru - the number 3600 in Akkadian gives the basis of the Greek " Saros " ( cycle of eclipses )

    The stele of Hammurabi directly mentions this in that it is in the shape of a giant....finger , but then again the stele also mentions the New Moons as " the flood " in the text itself

    You may have even seen the portrayals of Christ with a finger in the air, ........nothing strange considering that a High Priest ( also referred to as a " flood / deluge " )also served as the head astronomer who made the measurements himself, using his finger held at arm's length

    In the history of Judaism this changed when the council of the Sanhedrin decided 2 witnesses were responsible for announcing New Moon ( rosh chodesh ) ie " the flood " as they no longer " had the High Priest " , meaning they no longer were in possession of the bloodlines of the High Priest

    This convention of measurement in astronomy is still used today, along with the rest of the " hand measures ", but changed from the Old Babylonian period to the New Babylonian period , in that it went from being 1° to 1.5 ° which really stems from which finger you use as the measure


    In other words, this is how " signs in the sky " were measured, which is how this also ties into Palmoni
  12. Apousía

    Apousía Member

    Sep 21, 2017
    So, to continue,

    The first thing we do is look at what " signs / omen " are, as per the root word links that show the palmoni / aleph-tav / genesis 1:14 connection ( signs in the sky )

    It's no secret that the last book in the Bible mentions eclipses, and it's certainly no secret that Mesopotamian life revolved around astronomy and mathematics, and at the top of their list was the recording and prediction of ..

    ..eclipses..( signs in the sky )

    Red omen like " blood moons " were the ones most focused on

    Naturally eclipses were not the only thing focused on, as the gradual development of the Mazzaroth in Mesopotamian societies became a fixture, but this also ties into Palmoni:

    Job 38:32

    " Can you lead forth the Mazzaroth in their season, or can you guide the Bear with its children? "

    מזרה mazzarah {maz-zaw-raw'} from 05144 in the sense of distinction; TWOT - 1176; n f AV - Mazzaroth 1; 1 1) Mazzaroth 1a) the 12 signs of the Zodiac and their 36 associated constellation

    from 5144:

    נזר nazar {naw-zar'} a primitive root; - separate... 9, consecrate 1; 10 1) to dedicate, consecrate, separate 1a) (Niphal) to dedicate oneself, devote oneself 1b) (Hiphil) to keep sacredly separate 2) (Hiphil) to be a Nazarite, live as a Nazarite

    So you can see how the concept of being " holy / separate / consecrated " ties into the thread topic, as well as invoking the Nazarite

    ( Mazzaroth in the Latin Vulgate is " Lucifer ", but also keep in mind that the Vulgate uses a different term for Christ in Revelation : stella matutina )

    So this brings me to the numbers 666 and 144,000, which are taken from Babylonian calculations dealing with eclipses

    I had always thought that the topic of " births / virgins " would have been made more clear by the fact that to predict a " sign " in the sky one needs the synodic month average of both the ancient Mesopotamian calendars as well as the modern Jewish

    ...hence the reason a period of one synodic month ( average ) is called a " molad ", meaning " birth "

    of course, the " Woman in labor " ( cf. the Babylonian text known as " Incantation for a woman in labor " for more on this ) is another good reason to pay attention to mathematical astronomy

    Eclipses are seen from earth because the Sun is roughly 400 times the size of the Moon and roughly 400 times the distance from earth as the Moon

    The numbers in the Book of Revelation are based on the knowledge of base 60 ( actually both bi-sexigesimal and sexigesimal ) calculations of the Mesopotamians, as follows

    144,000 / 666 = 216.216...

    144,000 / 216 = 666.666...

    216 is the cube of 6 ( 6^3 ) or the digit product of the repunit 666 , dp(666) = 216

    144,000 x 6 = 864,000 ( Approximate diameter of the Sun )

    216 x 10 = 2,160 ( Approximate diameter of the Moon )

    864,000 / 2,160 = 400

    Iow, the percent difference in size between the Sun and Moon is given as a dimensionless number:

    Approx. Sun diameter divided by Approx Moon diameter = 400 ( % )


    Where you have the multiplication of 144,000 by 6 and the multiplication of 216 by 10, this is from the fact that

    6 x 10 = 60

    Base 60 was chosen ( partially ) because the Moon is roughly 60 of Earth's radii away from the Earth in distance

    ( You can read my forum, if you like, for a much more indepth discussion of the mathematical astronomy, I won't dull you with math here )

    These numbers are also from the Mazzaroth calculations, which use the so-called " prophetic year " of 360 days ( Which is actually for tracking the passage of the Sun and Moon through the houses of the Mazzaroth )

    144,000 / 360 = 400

    So it was with this system of mathematics that the mathematical value of a " sign / seal / mark " was chosen

    A " Tav " ( mark / sign / seal ) was initially a paleo-Hebrew letter ( Ezekiel's time, for example ) that was written as an upright cross †, or an X

    This was also branded on animals like sheep and goats

    In the scriptures, we find the first " mark " as the " mark of Cain "

    Gen 4:15 " And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him "

    a mark אות 'owth

    In the system of gematria, the letter Tav ( the one used for the mark ) has the value of 400

    As " marks / signs / seals " are all from the same word, which in turn is based on the same letter, Tav

    This is where the topic ties into the " 7 seals ", but I will save that for a later post, or perhaps make a separate thread ( It's a quite extensive topic )
  13. for_his_glory

    for_his_glory Member

    Apr 22, 2011
    Pennsylvania, USA
    You will find the true palmoni is God who has always destroyed the enemy of His people.

    What Daniel is given in Daniel 8:13-27 is an extension of the vision Daniel had in Daniel chapter 7 and also explained in Daniel 9:24-27 as Daniel is shown in the vision who the ram and the goat are as being the kings of Media and Persia. This same vision is given to John in Rev 12 of who the red dragon is.

    This red dragon is depicted as having seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. The seven heads and ten horns refer to the original ten kingdoms of which three were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:8. The last kingdom which stands greater than all the others is that of a revived Roman Empire that takes control over all the ten nations who then implements a deceiving peace treaty to a world that is in great distress. Below is that of the seven kingdoms described as four beasts in Daniel 7:1-8 and the three kingdoms that were subdued by the little horn, which is the Roman Empire.

    The three kingdoms that were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:24 are the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths who were eliminated by the year 538 AD under the leadership of the Eastern Roman Emperor Justinian whose deadly wound came in 1798. The wound was largely healed in 1929.

    Seven remaining nations that still exist today:

    Babylonian Empire:
    (Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon.

    Medo – Persian Empire:
    (Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire.

    Grecian Empire:
    (Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

    Roman Empire: (little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27)
    Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

    The crowns on its heads show that this dragon claims royal authority against the true King who is God of all creation as he prepares to take his seat above all that which is Gods Kingdom claiming he is God as he prepares to deceive the world through that of an existing Roman Empire, Daniel 8:9-12; Isaiah 14:12-15.
  14. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

    Dec 23, 2010
    State of Jefferson
    get it


    enjoy the discussion :)
  15. Apousía

    Apousía Member

    Sep 21, 2017
    Thanks, Reba

    I'm not trying to sway anybody's belief's, just pointing out some things that I feel I was called to study and point out to folks, they may or may not be contrary to many peoples' beliefs


    So, to continue, when I first read about Palmoni, I noted that some other people had mentioned it in respect to the year length, 365.242264 days

    I knew already that the modern Jewish calendar uses the luni-solar month, the synodic month average that was once part of sacred astronomy texts that only a High Priest could correctly interpret ( I mentioned this in my post on exegesis on another thread ), and that this period of the month, known as a " molad " or " birth "

    Hillel II (Hebrew: הלל נשיאה, Hillel the Nasi), also known simply as Hillel held the office of Nasi of the ancient Jewish Sanhedrin between 320 and 385 CE, and was credited with the formulation of the modern Jewish calendar

    The calendar however, uses the same synodic month average that the Babylonians also used, as well as Assyrian, Akkadian, Sumerian, etc, so what Hillel did was just go back to using the older calendar which didn't drift, they retained the strictly lunar calendar for holidays and feasts, etc

    The synodic month average is 29.53...days

    Without this month average, accurately predicting what the Bible calls " signs in the sky " ( eclipses, new moons, etc ) is pretty much impossible, as it is used to intercalate several different calendars

    So, knowing this, I looked to the scriptures to see exactly when the word " month " is first used, to see if anything interesting was mentioned

    It turns out that the first time the word " month " is used, references the " days of Noah " and " the flood ", which we in turn find to be associated with the coming of the Son of man

    Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

    By Strong's we see that it is indeed used to refer to new moon ( a flood ) 20 times

    חדש chodesh {kho'-desh} from 02318; TWOT - 613b; n m AV - month 254, new moon 20, monthly 1, another 1; 276 1) the new moon, month, monthly 1a) the first day of the month 1b) the lunar month

    The root means " to make new ", basically, and that is what the flood does to the earth in the Genesis narrative

    חדש chadash {khaw-dash'} a primitive root; TWOT - 613; v AV - renew 7, repair 3; 10 1) to be new, renew, repair 1a) (Piel) 1a1) to renew, make anew 1a2) to repair 1b) (Hithpael) to renew oneself

    This month mean synodic month in Babylonian base 60 = 29 days 31' 50'' 8''' 20''''

    That is, 29 days, 31 minutes, 50 seconds, 8 thirds, and 20 fourths. Expressed in base 10 numerals in terms of days with an exact fractional remainder that equals:

    29 + 31/60 + 50/(60 × 60) + 8/(60 × 60 × 60) + 20/(60 × 60 × 60 × 60) days

    = 29 + 31/60 + 50/3600 + 8/216000 + 20/12960000 days

    = 29 + 13753/25920 days

    In the Genesis narrative, it says that Noah was 600 years old when the flood was upon the earth:

    Gen 7:6 " And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth "

    This is interesting because when you take Noah's age in " prophetic years " of 360 days ( the stellar year of the Mazzaroth ), you find that it says he was

    216,000 days old

    ....which happens to be from the month expressed in base 10

    29 + 31/60 + 50/(60 × 60) + 8/(60 × 60 × 60) + 20/(60 × 60 × 60 × 60) days

    = 29 + 31/60 + 50/3600 + 8/216,000 + 20/12960000 days

    = 29 + 13753/25920 days

    So then I noticed that the mathematical value of the word " month " in that verse is a " Hapax Legomenon " in that it appears only once in the Book with that particular form, and only in that one verse, and it is the first time the word " month " is used in the bible

    In that verse it = 314
    In the rest it = 312

    A cursory examination of all the Greek words with the same value of 314 ( gematria ) showed some very tantalizing topics that all seem related to " end times " exegesis :

    βιβλος biblos / book Mat 1:1 = 314
    γαμος gamos / marriage Mat 22:8 = 314
    ολιγας oligos / few Luk 12:48 = 314
    εγεμισαν gemizo / fill Joh 2:7 = 314
    μαγος magos / wise Act 13:8 = 314
    λογιας logeia / collection 1Co 16:1 = 314
    κεκμηκας kamno / be Rev 2:3 = 314

    A quick look at words / phrases in Hebrew showed even more interesting links

    Shaddai ( the mighty ) = 314
    And I will be their God [Jer 11.4] = 314

    Knowing already that the Greek " alpha omega " ( Cognate to the untranslated word in Genesis 1:1 aleph tav ) = 1332 in standard Mispar Gadol gematria, and that

    The name " Messiah Ben David " = 424 in Mispar Gadol

    I was intrigued to find that

    1332 / 424 = 3.141508...
  16. Apousía

    Apousía Member

    Sep 21, 2017
    ( I had to break this post into 3 parts, this is the 2nd )

    That it all seems to point to the math constant of Pi was really tugging my eyes, because I am naturally curious about math, and even the alphabetical order of the words in the Bible seemed to reference the same things:

    Strong's Hebrew 314 ( Christ is the " last " as well as the " first " )

    אחרון 'acharown {akh-ar-one'} or (shortened) אחרן 'acharon {akh-ar-one'} - last 20, after(ward)(s) 15, latter 6, end 2, utmost 2, following 1, hinder 1, hindermost 1, hindmost 1, rereward 1, uttermost 1; 51 1) behind, following, subsequent, western 1a) behind, hindermost, western (of location) 1b) later, subsequent, latter, last (of time

    Strong's Greek 314 ( references that the " pit " refers to exegesis by a High Priest , as per my post in the other thread )

    αναγινωσκω anaginosko {an-ag-in-oce'-ko} - read 33; 33 1) to distinguish between, to recognise, to know accurately, to acknowledge 2) to read

    What I then did, was to take the value of the " seal / mark / sign " ( Tav " ), equaling 400 ( Which I found to come from the Book of Revelation's numbers 666 and 144,000 ) , and compared it to the values in the verse of Genesis 1:1, where we find the " seal / mark / marking / marked out " topic tying into both Palmoni as well as the untranslated aleph-Tav ( first and last ) which is another name for Christ himself

    In doing so, we are taking a " seal " to be 400, and there are " seven seals " used

    In the beginning...................... = 913 | 400
    God......................................... = 86 | 400
    created................................... = 203 | 400
    (untranslated) eth..................= 401 | 400
    the heaven............................. = 395 | 400
    and......................................... = 407 | 400
    the earth................................. = 296 | 400

    And the differences showed that " God " had a difference of 314

    In the beginning...................... = 913 | 400
    God......................................... = 86 | 400 ( 400 - 86 = 314 )
    created................................... = 203 | 400
    (untranslated) eth..................= 401 | 400
    the heaven............................. = 395 | 400
    and......................................... = 407 | 400
    the earth................................. = 296 | 400

    It's been noted by other Biblical students that the complete sum of Genesis 1:1 word values ( 2701 ) is what is known as a " triangular number ", in that if you were to use something like stones or coins, and stacked them, they would create a geometrical figure of a triangle

    Numbers like 2701, as well as 666 and 153 are all " triangular "

    These numbers belong to a class of numbers known as " figurate numbers ", in that they " make figures "


    Knowing that the authors of Revelation would have been well versed in these topics, and especially gematria, it's no surprise to see that in Greek, it's known as Isopsephy (/ˈaɪsəpˌsɛfi/; ἴσος isos meaning "equal" and ψῆφος psephos meaning "pebble") is the Greek word for the practice of adding up the number values of the letters in a word to form a single number. Isopsephism, the occurrence of isopsephy, is frequently used as a synonym.The early Greeks used pebbles arranged in patterns to learn arithmetic and geometry

    This is pretty much directly mentioned in Revelation by way of the use of the terminology

    While we have ψῆφος psephos meaning "pebble", ( used to count and teach geometry ) we have in Revelation 13:18, " psephizo " ( count )

    Rev 13:18 " Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is 666 "

    ψηφιζω psephizo {psay-fid'-zo} count 2; 2 1) to count with pebbles, to compute, calculate, reckon 2) to give one's vote by casting a pebble into the urn 3) to decide by voting


    ψηφος psephos {psay'-fos}; - stone 2, voice 1; 3 1) a small worn smooth stone, a pebble 1a) in the ancient courts of justice the accused were condemned by black pebbles and the acquitted by white 2) a vote (on account of the use of pebbles in voting)

    ( I also find it interesting that in Islam they " throw stones at the devil " during their pilgrimage, in that it may be some weird ritual derived from early Christian knowledge )
  17. Apousía

    Apousía Member

    Sep 21, 2017
    ( part 3 )

    OK, so here's where I started to grasp what I was looking at

    You see, Isaac Newton had been studying this exact same bunch of stuff

    ~ astronomy
    ~ mathematics
    ~ gematria in the Bible
    ~ Pi ( 3.14...)
    ~ The Great Pyramid

    But Newton, didn't have the same sources at his disposal, such as the bulk of findings that are based on cuneiform texts and Egyptian papryi , ( Those came after his time ) and understanding of the Mesopotamians' et al, systems of metrology used for calendars, astronomy and building temples, etc, like the Great Pyramid constructed using the " qarnu " ( finger / horn ) ( Hebrew qeren )( Egyptian teba )

    He may or may not have known ( I think he knew ) that in mathematics, the numbers 153,666,2701, 6, are all what's known as " triangular "

    And while we know know Pi to a ridiculous number of digits, ( 22,459,157,718,361 ) Isaac Newton was only able to get to 16 digits with his calculations, and in the days of the Egyptians, Babylonians, etc, Pi was known to maybe 3.14 at best

    So he would have missed that by an analysis, the " 7 day creation account " of Genesis is what we base our modern week on ( most of us ) and these conventions of time we use today are handed down from the ancients

    They are called " nominal time " , like 86,400 seconds or 25,920 chelekim ( Jewish ) to one day and make keeping a calendar simple ( No, there are not actually 24 hours to the day, or 86,400 seconds etc , we do it for simplification )

    Where the Bible is concerned, the concepts like one single day being associated with the coming of Christ ( Day of the Lord ) are certainly based on earlier traditions where a name for God was " Day " ( Ud )

    And where we have that difference noted, we also have the fact that

    In the beginning...................... = 913 | 400
    God......................................... = 86 | 400 ( 400 - 86 = 314 )
    created................................... = 203 | 400
    (untranslated) eth..................= 401 | 400
    the heaven............................. = 395 | 400
    and......................................... = 407 | 400
    the earth................................. = 296 | 400
    Sum....................................... = 2701

    ...seems to point to " one day " as well, in that we have

    God......................................... = 86 | 400 VS 86,400 seconds to " one day " ( nominal )

    Now, Newton never did reveal the time of the coming of Christ, even though he thought himself chosen personally by God to be a prophet and do those things reserved for the High Priest in " the pit " ( exegesis )

    And he would have been intrigued to know that that if one examines the digits of Pi,( 3.14...) the value 2701 of Genesis 1:1 starts at position 165 and ends at 168

    Because this is the only place on the number line that 4 consecutive digits sum to 666

    165+166+167+168 = 666


    It all struck me as a little odd, as the value of the first letters of the names of the first five books ( Torah ) = 314

    Was it possible the Bible contained some hidden ancient secret ?

    Seemed a little woo

    From here, before I got too deep into mathematical fallacies, I had to begin my education in mathematics and ancient languages and texts, Plato, Hippocrates, etc, from Biblical Hebrew, and Greek to Sumerian pre-cuneiform and hieroglyphics, and how mathematical astronomy was used, all the different types of calendars and different ways in which time has been kept, where gematria came from originally , how it was used, etc, and especially how bad math training and bad logic leads to other " biblecodes " and " proofs " involving mathematics and the Bible, because there is much out there

    Had to trace the evolution of modern calendars back through the ages only to find out that what they " evolved from " was accurate to begin with, but lost

    I didn't want to fool myself, but at the same time, I felt strangely compelled to look into the topics

    What I wanted to do was prove to myself that what I was " seeing " was merely the product of " pattern seeking " as it is usually written off ( By people who don't know the history of the exegesis of holy texts )

    What happened, however, ....was not that, and thus I started on a journey that lasted several years....

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