Paul And The Final Gospel

[Soul man]

Some believers get upset when I speak of the final Gospel. In fact many, upon a casual look, are sure the term final Gospel has something to do with prophecy and John's end time revelation. This is far from the truth. The final gospel is concerned very little or none at all with prophecy. Almost all Bible prophecy is primarily concerned with Israel. John's revelation deals with the things that are predicted in the Old Testament and are spoken by Jesus of Nazareth, and simply fulfilled and completed in the book of Revelation.

There is no new gospel to be found there. The final Gospel has one important purpose, and that is to tell the message and story of what happens to the people who are saved by the death of Christ on the cross. This is a new group of people, with a new purpose and a new message centered in God's eternal plan. Well most of the Bible deals with people who serve God under the law, the final gospel deals with people saved by grace. This is a new group of people who have been treated differently from any people God had ever dealt with.

They are a people God had in his mind before he created the world. They are special for several reasons.

1) these people, as God's own offspring, we're destined to become the people who would fill the Father's house. His house was greatly depleted by the ouster of Lucifer and the many angels that went with him when God had to put them out because of his disobedience.

2) from that time onward, God saw that the only one who pleased him was his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, and if God was to have a family in His house they would all have to have the Christ life. It was this idea that the whole plan of God would hinge upon, Ephesians 1:4.
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

A time would come when he would take the already created people and bring them to see their need of having to do something to change their miserable lives. They had done the same things that Lucifer had done, after 4000 years of God trying to change them from things that had displeased Him sent His Son to the earth to help them. The earthly people rejected his Son and God knew that to get humanity to a point where they were "like Jesus" was not going to be possible.

3) it was at this point that God knew humans would never live and be like His Son Jesus. His alternative at this point was that supreme act of God. He would have to take the already created humans and rebirth them himself. At the moment of greatest need in their life, when they could not save themselves, he would place his own sperm-seed in them and create a new life for them, not a life just like Jesus, but as Jesus.

4) these new creation people would have no earthly link, they would have no earthly father anymore. They would be those who would live in His house and love and serve Him faithfully because they were His bonafide offspring. These people are special to God and have a special gospel dealing with their life on earth. This is the final gospel, a gospel that is recorded in the Bible only by the apostle Paul.

 

[Free]

Some believers get upset when I speak of the final Gospel. In fact many, upon a casual look, are sure the term final Gospel has something to do with prophecy and John's end time revelation. This is far from the truth. The final gospel is concerned very little or none at all with prophecy. Almost all Bible prophecy is primarily concerned with Israel. John's revelation deals with the things that are predicted in the Old Testament and are spoken by Jesus of Nazareth, and simply fulfilled and completed in the book of Revelation.

There is no new gospel to be found there. The final Gospel has one important purpose, and that is to tell the message and story of what happens to the people who are saved by the death of Christ on the cross. This is a new group of people, with a new purpose and a new message centered in God's eternal plan. Well most of the Bible deals with people who serve God under the law, the final gospel deals with people saved by grace. This is a new group of people who have been treated differently from any people God had ever dealt with.

They are a people God had in his mind before he created the world. They are special for several reasons.

1) these people, as God's own offspring, we're destined to become the people who would fill the Father's house. His house was greatly depleted by the ouster of Lucifer and the many angels that went with him when God had to put them out because of his disobedience.

2) from that time onward, God saw that the only one who pleased him was his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, and if God was to have a family in His house they would all have to have the Christ life. It was this idea that the whole plan of God would hinge upon, Ephesians 1:4.
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

A time would come when he would take the already created people and bring them to see their need of having to do something to change their miserable lives. They had done the same things that Lucifer had done, after 4000 years of God trying to change them from things that had displeased Him sent His Son to the earth to help them. The earthly people rejected his Son and God knew that to get humanity to a point where they were "like Jesus" was not going to be possible.

3) it was at this point that God knew humans would never live and be like His Son Jesus. His alternative at this point was that supreme act of God. He would have to take the already created humans and rebirth them himself. At the moment of greatest need in their life, when they could not save themselves, he would place his own sperm-seed in them and create a new life for them, not a life just like Jesus, but as Jesus.

4) these new creation people would have no earthly link, they would have no earthly father anymore. They would be those who would live in His house and love and serve Him faithfully because they were His bonafide offspring. These people are special to God and have a special gospel dealing with their life on earth. This is the final gospel, a gospel that is recorded in the Bible only by the apostle Paul.

I don't get it. There is only one gospel and the Father sending the Son to die on the cross for mankind's sins has always been the plan.

 

[Papa Zoom]

I don't get it. There is only one gospel and the Father sending the Son to die on the cross for mankind's sins has always been the plan.

I'm with you on that.

 

[civilwarbuff]

1) these people, as God's own offspring, we're destined to become the people who would fill the Father's house. His house was greatly depleted by the ouster of Lucifer and the many angels that went with him when God had to put them out because of his disobedience.

Scriptural support for this please.

3) it was at this point that God knew humans would never live and be like His Son Jesus. His alternative at this point was that supreme act of God. He would have to take the already created humans and rebirth them himself. At the moment of greatest need in their life, when they could not save themselves, he would place his own sperm-seed in them and create a new life for them, not a life just like Jesus, but as Jesus.

4) these new creation people would have no earthly link, they would have no earthly father anymore. They would be those who would live in His house and love and serve Him faithfully because they were His bonafide offspring. These people are special to God and have a special gospel dealing with their life on earth. This is the final gospel, a gospel that is recorded in the Bible only by the apostle Paul.

Maybe back off the mystical stuff and put it in plain language cuz this makes no sense....and some scriptural support for it would be needed also.....

 

[Jim Parker]

This is the final gospel, a gospel that is recorded in the Bible only by the apostle Paul.

Paul's Gospel was EXACTLY the same as the Gospel preached by the rest of the apostles.
The only difference between the believing Jews and the believing Gentiles is that Gentiles were not required to be circumcised and keep the Law. The Jews were already circumcised and keeping the law was part of their culture. If they didn't keep the law, they couldn't go to a synagogue and preach Jesus. In fact, they would have to leave the country and live among Gentiles.

 

[WIP]

The Theology forum implies that what is said is supported by Scripture. We need to include the Scripture from which our positions or views come from.

 

[smaller]

Some believers get upset when I speak of the final Gospel. In fact many, upon a casual look, are sure the term final Gospel has something to do with prophecy and John's end time revelation. This is far from the truth. The final gospel is concerned very little or none at all with prophecy. Almost all Bible prophecy is primarily concerned with Israel. John's revelation deals with the things that are predicted in the Old Testament and are spoken by Jesus of Nazareth, and simply fulfilled and completed in the book of Revelation.

Seeing some definite preterist slants in the above.

John pointed out this fact about the Gospel:

Revelation 14:6
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

There is no new gospel to be found there.

The Gospel has been around for quite awhile:

Galatians 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

The Gospel is expressed in Gen. as well, particularly in Gen. 3:15.

The final Gospel has one important purpose, and that is to tell the message and story of what happens to the people who are saved by the death of Christ on the cross. This is a new group of people, with a new purpose and a new message centered in God's eternal plan. Well most of the Bible deals with people who serve God under the law, the final gospel deals with people saved by grace. This is a new group of people who have been treated differently from any people God had ever dealt with.

There is no "new plan" or any "plan B's."

We are no different than anyone else who lived before and definitely no better. Romans 3:9.

They are a people God had in his mind before he created the world. They are special for several reasons.

1) these people, as God's own offspring, we're destined to become the people who would fill the Father's house. His house was greatly depleted by the ouster of Lucifer and the many angels that went with him when God had to put them out because of his disobedience.

2) from that time onward, God saw that the only one who pleased him was his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, and if God was to have a family in His house they would all have to have the Christ life. It was this idea that the whole plan of God would hinge upon, Ephesians 1:4.
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

A time would come when he would take the already created people and bring them to see their need of having to do something to change their miserable lives. They had done the same things that Lucifer had done, after 4000 years of God trying to change them from things that had displeased Him sent His Son to the earth to help them. The earthly people rejected his Son and God knew that to get humanity to a point where they were "like Jesus" was not going to be possible.

3) it was at this point that God knew humans would never live and be like His Son Jesus. His alternative at this point was that supreme act of God. He would have to take the already created humans and rebirth them himself. At the moment of greatest need in their life, when they could not save themselves, he would place his own sperm-seed in them and create a new life for them, not a life just like Jesus, but as Jesus.

4) these new creation people would have no earthly link, they would have no earthly father anymore. They would be those who would live in His house and love and serve Him faithfully because they were His bonafide offspring. These people are special to God and have a special gospel dealing with their life on earth. This is the final gospel, a gospel that is recorded in the Bible only by the apostle Paul.

The exclusivity and elitism above isn't what Paul taught at all. Paul's much more consistent and in line with the O.T. and Jesus:

Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Many a woefully directed religious pharisee has fallen into the trap of thinking they are better than the other sinners. Luke 18:11.

Pity, really.

 

[reba]

To say the 'finial gospel' is to say there are other gospels.. .. ?


Gal_1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Rev_14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

 

[Soul man]

Scriptural support for this please.

Maybe back off the mystical stuff and put it in plain language cuz this makes no sense....and some scriptural support for it would be needed also.....

Scriptural support for this please.

Maybe back off the mystical stuff and put it in plain language cuz this makes no sense....and some scriptural support for it would be needed also.....

 

[Soul man]

Scriptural support for this please.

Maybe back off the mystical stuff and put it in plain language cuz this makes no sense....and some scriptural support for it would be needed also.....

1) When I use the term Gods own offspring, Im talking about the born again.
The Father's house is a term Jesus use's in John 14:2.
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I think we know the scriptures of Lucifer being ejected, along with a 1/3 of the Angels.

3) the Old Testament proves humanity could not live up to what God was wanting. He tryed, innocence-conscious-human government-promise-law and finally grace. I believe in grace we are living in the ultimate reason for creation, being chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, Eph. 1:4.
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
That only happens and comes about by a birthing.
There is no other way to get in Christ, the Father taking apart of Himself, His seed Christ and places it in the Believing sinner. That constitutes a birthing, the born again.

 

[Soul man]

Paul's Gospel was EXACTLY the same as the Gospel preached by the rest of the apostles.
The only difference between the believing Jews and the believing Gentiles is that Gentiles were not required to be circumcised and keep the Law. The Jews were already circumcised and keeping the law was part of their culture. If they didn't keep the law, they couldn't go to a synagogue and preach Jesus. In fact, they would have to leave the country and live among Gentiles.

Without Paul there is no in Christ message, he makes that statement very clear, Romans 16:25.
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began.
No where in the Old Testament is it prophesied, predicted, or written God was going to birth His Own children. Coming Messiah, Savior of the world, lamb slain, but absolutely nothing ofGod Birthing children like unto His Only Son, by the one Son in many believers.
I personally can't see where any of the others preached Christ as Life, as a message before Paul, after paul yes, but it is still in bits and pieces.
It's all the written word of God, I'm not trying to take away from that fact, just divide what belongs to the church as a message.
They knew nothing of grace before Paul, nothing wrong with that, it's what they were taught from childhood.
Peter and Paul agreed to preach different gospels, Gal. 2:7-8. I believe Peter comes to see Christ as life in time according to what he has to say on the day of pentecost and what he says in his epistles, big difference.
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles

 

[Jim Parker]

No where in the Old Testament is it prophesied, predicted, or written God was going to birth His Own children. Coming Messiah, Savior of the world, lamb slain, but absolutely nothing of God Birthing children like unto His Only Son, by the one Son in many believers.

Ah! God "Birthing" children! A new wind of doctrine! How ordinary.....
God doesn't "Birth" children.
Jesus said that we must be "born again " of water and Spirit. (John 3:5-7)
And Paul explains how being born again of water takes place. (Ro 6:3ff)
Peter explained how one is born of the spirit at Acts 2:38.
Where do you get this nonsense???
Can you put it back?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Ah! God "Birthing" children! A new wind of doctrine! How ordinary.....
God doesn't "Birth" children.
Jesus said that we must be "born again " of water and Spirit. (John 3:5-7)
And Paul explains how being born again of water takes place. (Ro 6:3ff)
Peter explained how one is born of the spirit at Acts 2:38.
Where do you get this nonsense???
Can you put it back?

This is the 'spiritual' interpretation of scripture when none is needed....

 

[Jim Parker]

This is the 'spiritual' interpretation of scripture when none is needed....

Indeed.

 

[Soul man]

This is the 'spiritual' interpretation of scripture when none is needed....

Wouldn't you consider the born again as children of God.

 

[Soul man]

Ah! God "Birthing" children! A new wind of doctrine! How ordinary.....
God doesn't "Birth" children.
Jesus said that we must be "born again " of water and Spirit. (John 3:5-7)
And Paul explains how being born again of water takes place. (Ro 6:3ff)
Peter explained how one is born of the spirit at Acts 2:38.
Where do you get this nonsense???
Can you put it back?

Again there is no mention of the born again in the Old Testament.
The church started on the day of penecost, but Peter had no idea at the time God was placing believing sinners in Christ.
Peter preached the cross, but no man knew at that time what God's eternal plan was.
I don't see what seems so strange about that. It's not a bad thing, it is a deep thing in God, but it is revealed now. It is written in plain black and white English, but we reject it.
When you read paul, you get the mind of Christ, that is where it is found.

 

[Nathan]

3) the Old Testament proves humanity could not live up to what God was wanting. He tryed, innocence-conscious-human government-promise-law and finally grace. I believe in grace we are living in the ultimate reason for creation, being chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, Eph. 1:4.
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
That only happens and comes about by a birthing.
There is no other way to get in Christ, the Father taking apart of Himself, His seed Christ and places it in the Believing sinner. That constitutes a birthing, the born again.

God does not "try" things. What is interesting is that you give the very plain contradiction to this in your quote of Ephesians.

Neither God, or His "things", are "deep". God was, is and forever will be. God holds everything, so to understand His ways we would have to be looking at things from the outside. That would be impossible, because we are inside of His creation. To try and define Him, or His ways, by measurements is futile and will only lead yourself, and others, to more confusion.

However, we can know what He tells us, and that very fact that all who are "born again" - "indwelt by The Spirit" - "believers", are indeed apart of the Body of Christ, which means we are Children of God. This very fact goes into the realm of who God is, and therefore is without measurement. Again, look at the quote from Ephesians.

We understand all of this by Faith, but that does not mean we(in human terms) can express it. The (only)Gospel is to be given and received by Faith and Faith alone. I find it interesting that over the course of time we have tried to explain the Gospel to the world in many different ways. Mostly for seemingly good reason, but because we tamper with it by injecting our "understanding", it is no wonder that it can a lot of the times seem to be ineffective.

The Gospel, because it is from God alone, is pure and also outside of understanding. God never said we had to understand it, much less try to explain it to others, only believe it by Faith.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Wouldn't you consider the born again as children of God.

Yes, but in no way, shape or form, even spirtually, 'birthed'.
The word you really want to use is 'regenerate' not 'birthed'.....
regenerate

[verb ri-jen-uh-reyt; adjective ri-jen-er-it]

• Synonyms
• Examples
• Word Origin

See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
verb (used with object), regenerated, regenerating.
1.
to effect a complete moral reform in.
2.
to re-create, reconstitute, or make over, especially in a better form or condition.
3.
to revive or produce anew; bring into existence again.
4.
Biology. to renew or restore (a lost, removed, or injured part).
5.
Physics. to restore (a substance) to a favorable state or physical condition.
6.
Electronics. to magnify the amplification of, by relaying part of the output circuitpower into the input circuit.
7.
Theology. to cause to be born again spiritually.
verb (used without object), regenerated, regenerating.
8.
to come into existence or be formed again.
9.
to reform; become regenerate.
10.
to produce a regenerative effect.
11.
to undergo regeneration.
adjective
12.
reconstituted or made over in a better form.
13.
reformed.
14.
Theology. born again spiritually.

 

[Nathan]

The only way to be truly apart of a family is to be born into it. There is adoption, and it is actually used to describe our position in God's Family - once apart of a different family, but now apart of God's. But being "born again" was used to describe the transition of our position and our state, not of our own works, but God's.

I do not think you can correctly use the term "regenerate" to describe what "happens" to a person who hears the Gospel and believes as far as his relationship to God's Family. Regenerate seems to refer to a "re" "generating" of a state. When a person believes the Gospel he is a totally new creation, not a "re-generated" one. Regenerate or regeneration can only be truly used to describe what happens to our flesh, not our spirit. Regeneration is often something referred to as a co-experience.

Unlike the new birth, we have a part in regeneration.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Without Paul there is no in Christ message, he makes that statement very clear, Romans 16:25.

That makes no sense at all to me. The verse in the YLT reads:

25And to Him who is able to establish you, according to my good news, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the secret, in the times of the ages having been kept silent,26 and now having been made manifest, also, through prophetic writings, according to a command of the age-during God, having been made known to all the nations for obedience of faith-- 27 to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, to him be glory to the ages. Amen.

Paul is clearly referencing Isaiah's Gospel found in chapter 53 of Isaiah because the Commentaries, a.k.a. the New Testament, had not been inspired at that time.