Please excuse my posting of blasphemy

[proveallthings]

Notice that believing in Christ and being reconciled to God are mentioned first here and as I said above, one cannot be reconciled to God without faith and grace. After all we can do means all one can do with faith in the grace of Christ. I could accurately liken this verse to me personally by saying that the “we†is Christ and me as a partnership.

Does that help?

Not really.

You guys believe in a jesus christ that is NOT found in the Bible, and is non-existent.

In the spirit of Labor Day picnics, I offer this substitution for your jesus christ that is found in the BoM only, and not in the Bible:

Notice that believing in Watermelon and being reconciled to Cantaloupe are mentioned first here and as I said above, one cannot be reconciled to Cantaloupe without faith and grace. After all we can do means all one can do with faith in the grace of Watermelon. I could accurately liken this verse to me personally by saying that the “we†is Christ and me as a partnership.

​

Even in your "explanation" you get it wrong, PAT. It is NOT a partnership whereby anyone is saved, it is ONLY by the blood of Jesus, and HIS WORK. It is ALL of grace, and ZERO of works whereby any can be saved. That is the point where 100% of Mormons get it wrong. It is not because you are dumb that you get it wrong, but because you are spiritually blind according to Scripture.

NOTHING in the Bible indicates a partnership, and until you are able to see that it is all of Christ which saves, and ZERO of human effort, you will remain blinded by the god of this age.

Does that help you understand the position of Christians?

It sheds more light on your version of Christianity, which must be either Calvinism or Universalism. Which one is it?

 

[By Grace]

It sheds more light on your version of Christianity, which must be either Calvinism or Universalism. Which one is it?

Your attempt to derail this thread and move the talk to Calvinism--the LDS's favorite hobby horse is noted...and scorned.

These verses clearly state WORKS COME FIRST

2 Nephi 10:24 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved.

2 Nephi 25:23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

If that is wrong, then demonstrate my error

All you have done in this regard is to do an in-eloquent "nuh-uh" as a rebuttal.

To state my position more clearly, I repeat it:

NOTHING in the Bible indicates a partnership, and until you are able to see that it is all of Christ which saves, and ZERO of human effort, you will remain blinded by the god of this age.

2 Corinthians 4: 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them

Titus 3: 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour.

There is no sort of "partnership" mentioned in these verses.

 

[proveallthings]

It sheds more light on your version of Christianity, which must be either Calvinism or Universalism. Which one is it?

Your attempt to derail this thread and move the talk to Calvinism--the LDS's favorite hobby horse is noted...and scorned.

Ahh, so you are Calvinist. That explains a lot. But I am not attempting to derail anything. I was merely adding context to your statement that your belief of there being no partnership between humans and Christ is a universal Christian belief. I was simply pointing out that your position is not what many Christians would consider mainstream. The Calvinist view that man has no choice in his salvation, but those who will be saved were predestined to be saved before they lived their life, as those who will not be saved are predestined to damnation, refutes the core message of the entire Bible to most Christians.

These verses clearly state WORKS COME FIRST

2 Nephi 10:24 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved.

2 Nephi 25:23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

If that is wrong, then demonstrate my error

All you have done in this regard is to do an in-eloquent "nuh-uh" as a rebuttal.

To state my position more clearly, I repeat it:

NOTHING in the Bible indicates a partnership, and until you are able to see that it is all of Christ which saves, and ZERO of human effort, you will remain blinded by the god of this age.

I guess I will just have to disagree with you here. To me, the entire message of the Bible is one of a partnership between God and Man. The work of salvation involves the works of man on several levels. You have the spreading the word of salvation through prophets, apostles and others called by God to the work of bringing the gospel to every nation and people. God doesn’t do it Himself. He works in partnership with men and women.

Don’t most Christians believe that one must accept Jesus to be saved. Do you really think that accepting Jesus in any age takes zero effort? Most Christians also believe that accepting Jesus includes accepting his works and his teachings. Do you really believe that accepting and attempting to live His teachings takes zero effort? Jesus said that being saved to Eternal Life involves knowing Him and the Father. Would not knowing Him include knowing His doctrine? Did he not say that the way to know His doctrine was to do His will? Do you really believe that doing the will of the Father takes zero effort? Even confessing Jesus with their lips took a lot of effort for persecuted Christians.

It is true that one aspect of Christ’s salvation requires no effort on our part other than just being born. That is being resurrected. As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. So maybe that is what you are talking about. If so, you are not talking about what the Book of Mormon verses were about. They are speaking of being saved to Eternal Life with God. The Bible says that requires knowing Christ and His Father.

2 Corinthians 4: 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them

Even this single verse out of context teaches the idea of participation by man by implying that men must choose to believe or not. Choosing to believe takes effort.

Titus 3: 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Whenever Paul refers to works not counting toward salvation, he is meaning works on our own, without faith. He is not referring to works generated by faith in Christ. That is why his teachings do not contradict what is in James 2.

There is no sort of "partnership" mentioned in these verses.

At least the inference of partnership is obvious if you have ears to hear, eyes to see and a heart to receive.

 

[By Grace]

if you have ears to hear, eyes to see and a heart to receive.

Your last post crossed too many boundaries. It is one thing to discuss the errors of the mormon heresy, but it is a different matter to egregiously and frequently breech the civility threshold.

I choose to no longer respond to you.

 

[Sparkey]

Stars are very often used to speak of sons. So I would agree that when read of the different splendors of the stars that it can be seen that we too as sons can expect different levels of glory in heaven. When my kids have asked what do you think we will doing I've laughed and said I will probably be doing dishes, the most boring, unrewarding, and never completed (invariably someone at least dirties a glass) job ever. But I will be happy to do it, so it really doesn't matter.

Doing dishes is it? Performing a service for our Master? The one who mentions that it is the heart of a servant to serve, that their Master eats first, then they too eat. What? We get to dine at this table? Really? Certainly I don't deserve this. And we get to be included in the company of saints. Oh, and one more thing, I won't mention plates of gold or other things like but it has not even entered into our minds what God has prepared for them who love Him. Jesus said something about going to the Father with a very specific purpose in mind. He said he was building a mansion for Deb13. Not really sure what "doing dishes" is and I do relate it to what my dad used to say.

He say things like, "I just hope that God leaves a back door open for me," meaning that he didn't feel all that worthy of glory either. He grappled with the goodness of God and the favor of the Lord but I saw it, saw an entrance to heaven being administered to him in the later years of his life. It touched me and I am honored to have been given this glimpse.

I'm honored to associate with you too, Miss Dish Washer. Totally. Blessings to you! May the peace of our Lord, Jesus inhabit you. Lift up your eye and gaze upon Him who loves you, utterly, and with more witnesses given than I may say, but He has said, has whispered to you. I know this. I've seen it.

 

[By Grace]

Stars are very often used to speak of sons. So I would agree that when read of the different splendors of the stars that it can be seen that we too as sons can expect different levels of glory in heaven. When my kids have asked what do you think we will doing I've laughed and said I will probably be doing dishes, the most boring, unrewarding, and never completed (invariably someone at least dirties a glass) job ever. But I will be happy to do it, so it really doesn't matter.

Posts like this are great reasons why we should have a reputation-giving capability.

Alas! Nick is mean.

 

[Sparkey]

Alas! Nick is mean.

Yeah, Nick is a meanie. But he's not the only one. There are many here who support this decision about reputation systems and maybe you'd like to speak about it in the Questions & Suggestions for CFnet Staff perhaps? No, I'm not here saying "Back to Topic" --- there would be three fingers pointing back to me if I were to...

Just talking on a tangent (again) - sorry.

 

[texascowgirl.com]

I havent studied those religions but I do know Jesus taught everyone the same and that all religions teach based off their own private interpretation of scriptures.

 

[By Grace]

I havent studied those religions but I do know Jesus taught everyone the same and that all religions teach based off their own private interpretation of scriptures

Could you please clarify what you mean?

I could be wrong, but my first impression is that you seem to state that all religions are off shoots of what the Bible teaches.