Poll re. good tattoo artist career for a Christian woman - Part 2

[reba]

Personally I don't like tatts . But when we take a notion to tell others about 'they ' should abide by laws we should make sure we have abided by the laws. There are tons of em

 

[jasoncran]

ok so a Christian girl should get a tattoo of say a rose or so forth on her body that is visible on her abdomen or where? or not? if yes then should she not consider that men may ask her to see it just to get a sneak at her figure? uhm lets be real, I used to do this all the time when I was in the world.they knew I was doing it and they didn't care.some of those placements weren't so benign. no pride nor rebellion there.

 

[farouk]

Late response, but better late than never. How are we then to choose and decide which teachings from Leviticus 19 are for us, and not for us? God is so much smarter then we are, and I trust him to know what is best for me. Whether he said them 3500 years ago, or 2 seconds ago. His righteousness is timeless and does not move with the signs and times of the day.

[MENTION=91415]Ryan[/MENTION]: So do you shave?

 

[farouk]

Personally I don't like tatts . But when we take a notion to tell others about 'they ' should abide by laws we should make sure we have abided by the laws. There are tons of em

[MENTION=47381]reba[/MENTION]: I'm just wondering, in specific terms of Leviticus 19, whether, before preachers try to tell tattooed men and women in their congregation that they shouldn't have gotten tattoos, any of the preachers use a razor on their faces?



Blessings.

 

[Ryan]

Late response, but better late than never. How are we then to choose and decide which teachings from Leviticus 19 are for us, and not for us? God is so much smarter then we are, and I trust him to know what is best for me. Whether he said them 3500 years ago, or 2 seconds ago. His righteousness is timeless and does not move with the signs and times of the day.

[MENTION=91415]Ryan[/MENTION]: So do you shave?

In regards to Leviticus 19:27 and Leviticus 21:5 you have already accurately brought up previously the context of those verses is in relation to pagan, ritualistic worshiping of the sun god of the time. What the bible does not tell us is a commandment to grow a beard, it is only speaking of if you have one, what to do with it. The word translated round is "naqaph" in Leviticus 19:27 means to strike, chop off but literally means to surround and destroy. Pagan priests called upon their gods while doing violence to their bodies. As well, if you take a look at ancient egyptian pictographs, you can barely tell the difference between male and female. Beards were/are an expression of one's maleness, but never are we commanded to have one. Only when we have one, not to take on the appearance or follow the customs and fashions of the times. Jeremiah 47:4-5; Jeremiah 48:37-38; Isaiah 15:2 confirm the pagan, ritualistic customs of the day by the neighbouring nations.

However, in Deuteronomy 12:30-31; Jeremiah 10:2-4 teach us not to practice worshiping our God in the manner of how the neighbouring nations are worshipping their gods. Being set apart was not only in the OT, but is taught many times in the NT as well. Be Holy for I am Holy is throughout scriptures. Tattooing was a method of how pagans acknowledged their sun gods. So why would you want to follow in their ways?

The Nazarite vow in Numbers 6 teaches the shaving of ones head or beard is completely acceptable to do so. Bottom line, beard or no beard is in accordance with the Word of God. And answer to your question, sometimes I grow one, sometimes I shave it off and am 100% sure it is compatible with the Word of God whichever I am choosing to do at the moment.

 

[farouk]

Late response, but better late than never. How are we then to choose and decide which teachings from Leviticus 19 are for us, and not for us? God is so much smarter then we are, and I trust him to know what is best for me. Whether he said them 3500 years ago, or 2 seconds ago. His righteousness is timeless and does not move with the signs and times of the day.

[MENTION=91415]Ryan[/MENTION]: So do you shave?

In regards to Leviticus 19:27 and Leviticus 21:5 you have already accurately brought up previously the context of those verses is in relation to pagan, ritualistic worshiping of the sun god of the time. What the bible does not tell us is a commandment to grow a beard, it is only speaking of if you have one, what to do with it. The word translated round is "naqaph" in Leviticus 19:27 means to strike, chop off but literally means to surround and destroy. Pagan priests called upon their gods while doing violence to their bodies. As well, if you take a look at ancient egyptian pictographs, you can barely tell the difference between male and female. Beards were/are an expression of one's maleness, but never are we commanded to have one. Only when we have one, not to take on the appearance or follow the customs and fashions of the times. Jeremiah 47:4-5; Jeremiah 48:37-38; Isaiah 15:2 confirm the pagan, ritualistic customs of the day by the neighbouring nations.

However, in Deuteronomy 12:30-31; Jeremiah 10:2-4 teach us not to practice worshiping our God in the manner of how the neighbouring nations are worshipping their gods. Being set apart was not only in the OT, but is taught many times in the NT as well. Be Holy for I am Holy is throughout scriptures. Tattooing was a method of how pagans acknowledged their sun gods. So why would you want to follow in their ways?

The Nazarite vow in Numbers 6 teaches the shaving of ones head or beard is completely acceptable to do so. Bottom line, beard or no beard is in accordance with the Word of God. And answer to your question, sometimes I grow one, sometimes I shave it off and am 100% sure it is compatible with the Word of God whichever I am choosing to do at the moment.

[MENTION=91415]Ryan[/MENTION]:

Ty.

So you shave.

And some Christians choose to engage in witness with faith related tattoos, as they as New Testament believers exercise their Romans 14 Christian liberty.

Blessings.

 

[Ryan]

Late response, but better late than never. How are we then to choose and decide which teachings from Leviticus 19 are for us, and not for us? God is so much smarter then we are, and I trust him to know what is best for me. Whether he said them 3500 years ago, or 2 seconds ago. His righteousness is timeless and does not move with the signs and times of the day.

[MENTION=91415]Ryan[/MENTION]: So do you shave?

In regards to Leviticus 19:27 and Leviticus 21:5 you have already accurately brought up previously the context of those verses is in relation to pagan, ritualistic worshiping of the sun god of the time. What the bible does not tell us is a commandment to grow a beard, it is only speaking of if you have one, what to do with it. The word translated round is "naqaph" in Leviticus 19:27 means to strike, chop off but literally means to surround and destroy. Pagan priests called upon their gods while doing violence to their bodies. As well, if you take a look at ancient egyptian pictographs, you can barely tell the difference between male and female. Beards were/are an expression of one's maleness, but never are we commanded to have one. Only when we have one, not to take on the appearance or follow the customs and fashions of the times. Jeremiah 47:4-5; Jeremiah 48:37-38; Isaiah 15:2 confirm the pagan, ritualistic customs of the day by the neighbouring nations.

However, in Deuteronomy 12:30-31; Jeremiah 10:2-4 teach us not to practice worshiping our God in the manner of how the neighbouring nations are worshipping their gods. Being set apart was not only in the OT, but is taught many times in the NT as well. Be Holy for I am Holy is throughout scriptures. Tattooing was a method of how pagans acknowledged their sun gods. So why would you want to follow in their ways?

The Nazarite vow in Numbers 6 teaches the shaving of ones head or beard is completely acceptable to do so. Bottom line, beard or no beard is in accordance with the Word of God. And answer to your question, sometimes I grow one, sometimes I shave it off and am 100% sure it is compatible with the Word of God whichever I am choosing to do at the moment.

[MENTION=91415]Ryan[/MENTION]:

Ty.

So you shave.

And some Christians choose to engage in witness with faith related tattoos, as they as New Testament believers exercise their Romans 14 Christian liberty.

Blessings.

I just read Romans 14 and I see nothing in there allowing a Christian liberty to disobey the Word of God. Point me out to the exact verse please so we can take a closer look at it please. I will quote Deuteronomy 12:30-31 so the text is out there as clear as day.

<SUP class=versenum>30 </SUP>beware that you are not ensnared<SUP class=footnote value='[p]'>]</SUP>to follow them, after they are destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How do these nations serve their gods, that I also may do likewise?’<SUP class=versenum>31 </SUP><SUP class=crossreference value='(AI)'></SUP>You shall not behave thus toward the Lord your God, for every abominable act which the Lord hates they have done for their gods; for <SUP class=crossreference value='(AJ)'></SUP>they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.

Following the way of the pagans is not kosher to God so to speak. You know I am outta here. Points have been made and if the Word of God cannot convince you to maybe take a closer look at this topic, then nothing coming out of my carnal mind will convince you as well. God bless and till the next thread we will disagree in.

 

[farouk]

In regards to Leviticus 19:27 and Leviticus 21:5 you have already accurately brought up previously the context of those verses is in relation to pagan, ritualistic worshiping of the sun god of the time. What the bible does not tell us is a commandment to grow a beard, it is only speaking of if you have one, what to do with it. The word translated round is "naqaph" in Leviticus 19:27 means to strike, chop off but literally means to surround and destroy. Pagan priests called upon their gods while doing violence to their bodies. As well, if you take a look at ancient egyptian pictographs, you can barely tell the difference between male and female. Beards were/are an expression of one's maleness, but never are we commanded to have one. Only when we have one, not to take on the appearance or follow the customs and fashions of the times. Jeremiah 47:4-5; Jeremiah 48:37-38; Isaiah 15:2 confirm the pagan, ritualistic customs of the day by the neighbouring nations.

However, in Deuteronomy 12:30-31; Jeremiah 10:2-4 teach us not to practice worshiping our God in the manner of how the neighbouring nations are worshipping their gods. Being set apart was not only in the OT, but is taught many times in the NT as well. Be Holy for I am Holy is throughout scriptures. Tattooing was a method of how pagans acknowledged their sun gods. So why would you want to follow in their ways?

The Nazarite vow in Numbers 6 teaches the shaving of ones head or beard is completely acceptable to do so. Bottom line, beard or no beard is in accordance with the Word of God. And answer to your question, sometimes I grow one, sometimes I shave it off and am 100% sure it is compatible with the Word of God whichever I am choosing to do at the moment.

@Ryan :

Ty.

So you shave.

And some Christians choose to engage in witness with faith related tattoos, as they as New Testament believers exercise their Romans 14 Christian liberty.

Blessings.

I just read Romans 14 and I see nothing in there allowing a Christian liberty to disobey the Word of God. Point me out to the exact verse please so we can take a closer look at it please. I will quote Deuteronomy 12:30-31 so the text is out there as clear as day.

<SUP class=versenum>30 </SUP>beware that you are not ensnared<SUP class=footnote value='[p]'>]</SUP>to follow them, after they are destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How do these nations serve their gods, that I also may do likewise?’<SUP class=versenum>31 </SUP><SUP class=crossreference value='(AI)'></SUP>You shall not behave thus toward the Lord your God, for every abominable act which the Lord hates they have done for their gods; for <SUP class=crossreference value='(AJ)'></SUP>they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.

Following the way of the pagans is not kosher to God so to speak. You know I am outta here. Points have been made and if the Word of God cannot convince you to maybe take a closer look at this topic, then nothing coming out of my carnal mind will convince you as well. God bless and till the next thread we will disagree in.

Some general principles from Romans 14:

1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who eateth with offence.

22 Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

(My paraphrase: In Christ, Brother Abdullah ought to be able to have a great time of fellowship with Brother Ashkenazi, and pray together sitting in the same pew.)

Blessings.

 

[tandemcpl]

(PS: I suppose in the same vein as your comment some people could also try to argue that the many preachers' wives who happen to paint their lips, wear rings in their ears and wear high heels are supposedly trying allure people to perdition. But, frankly, few people would agree.)

So, if enough people agree or disagree with something that makes it okay? You know what the Bible says about excessive adornment. Just because the church has adopted the ways of the world in regard to women's dress (to a very limited extent) it's okay to do that with tattoos too?

The important thing to realize is the meaning of dress has changed. The meaning of tattoos has not. You're trying to compare the proverbial apples and oranges you talked about earlier in a post. But as more and more naive people endorse tattooing in the church this will change as societal norms change. Until then it's impossible to compare dress to tattoos. For now tattoos still largely communicate that which they did from the beginning in our society--an underlying value system of worldliness. Whether that's actually true one person to the next is unknown. The point I'm making is it still communicates that in our society whether we want to acknowledge it or not.

Jethro, I agree whole heartedly with everything you have written on this issue.

I waited until I was 52 to give my life to Jesus, and in those 52 years I became very much a part of the world. I was addicted to alcohol, pornography, and had acquired several large tattoos.

After surrendering my life to Jesus, He put a stop to all of it. The alcohol and porn was plainly addressed in the bible; however, tattoos not so much. After lengthy prayer, the Holy Spirit showed me Romans 12:2 and that was all it took to convince me that I would get no more tattoos. For “me†tattoos are just as much a part of the world as alcohol and porn, and I would definitely not hang out at a bar drinking with the other patroness in an attempt to better witness to them.

I don’t try to hide my tattoos because I can use them to witness to Christians about how being part of the world has scared me, and that Jesus has forgiven me for getting them.

I know many will disagree with me and I don’t intend to debate the issue because there is nothing anybody can say that will trump what the Holy Spirit has spoken to me.

In “my†opinion, tattoos are a part of the world and Christians should not get them or give them.

Be blessed.

Toby

 

[farouk]

[Jethro, I agree whole heartedly with everything you have written on this issue.

I waited until I was 52 to give my life to Jesus, and in those 52 years I became very much a part of the world. I was addicted to alcohol, pornography, and had acquired several large tattoos.

After surrendering my life to Jesus, He put a stop to all of it. The alcohol and porn was plainly addressed in the bible; however, tattoos not so much. After lengthy prayer, the Holy Spirit showed me Romans 12:2 and that was all it took to convince me that I would get no more tattoos. For “me” tattoos are just as much a part of the world as alcohol and porn, and I would definitely not hang out at a bar drinking with the other patroness in an attempt to better witness to them.

I don’t try to hide my tattoos because I can use them to witness to Christians about how being part of the world has scared me, and that Jesus has forgiven me for getting them.

I know many will disagree with me and I don’t intend to debate the issue because there is nothing anybody can say that will trump what the Holy Spirit has spoken to me.

In “my” opinion, tattoos are a part of the world and Christians should not get them or give them.

Be blessed.

Toby

hi @tandemcpl :

I can wholeheartedly see where you are coming from and can appreciate that this is your convicted view. Thanks for your comment.

For some people, the conviction seems to be in relation to the fact that it's a faith related tattoo design.

As quoted back a bit:

Originally Posted by Cathi
i have tatoos so. my oldest when she got hers i found out to late. i was shocked! well i learned alot. the next daughter came to me and wanted to get a tatoo... we had a really good talk. she really wanted one so we had a conversation, o.k. she was really wanted a tatoo. .. i would pay for the tatoo but i would have input on where it was and what it was. she has her first tatoo. it was a vine .. that says wwjd. - what would jesus do. it really worked out for both of us. we both were happy. source: circleofmons.com

But since you once came to the subject from a secular perspective, I can certainly understand your view.

@handy , above, said:

All Chrisitans should follow their conscience. ..But, it's really important to remember that there are those who have full faith and freedom in their faith to be tatted... And, while I wouldn't get a tattoo because a: I'm not into body art and b: I'm sort of squeamish about needles... I hardly think that anyone who has John 3:16 tatted on their arm is engaging in a death culture/paganistic ritual. Nor being rebellious for that matter. Perhaps a generation or so ago, there was a sort of subculture of sailors, bikers and prisoners that tatted to show how tough and outside of the bounds of society they were... but tattoos are pretty mainstream today.

Similar to what @handy says here, I saw a guy with 'John 3.16' on his arm (yes, the whole text!) and I talked to him about it, and I'm sure it has given rise to other conversations also: which is the whole point, I guess, in the minds of those who get faith based designs done.

I don't say, Go get a tattoo. But when Christians are indeed motivated to get faith based designs, then they often do give rise to witness conversations.

Blessings.

PS: [MENTION=90080]mygraine[/MENTION] in the OP seems actually to be expressing a similar view to your own, [MENTION=88442]tandemcpl[/MENTION], from a slightly different perspective:

When the artist is a Christian woman, it makes it more accessible for other Christian women. ..
My wife had tatts before Christ.. She states that she prefers the idea of an artist with a set of morals similar to our own. We are friends with two female tattoo artists .. For my wife it seems to come down to the money, she may get more later, as the finances become available.

Blessings.




<O</O

 

[farouk]

I have two single daughters, one wears a gold cross, the other a silver cross. To them, it speaks to those they meet, that they are Christians, especially men. ..

PS:
[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]:

I guess that hypothetically, whether it is metal, or inked, is kind of different only in degree, rather than fundamentally. Same with other faith based designs, whether the Christian fish sign <><, either as metal jewelry or as a wrist tattoo, etc.; for different people it can all tell a tale, can't it.

Blessings.

 

[Deborah13]

for different people it can all tell a tale, can't it.

Yes, it could tell a tale.

 

[farouk]

for different people it can all tell a tale, can't it.

Yes, it could tell a tale.

@Deborah13 : Yes, Christians are expected to have a personal testimony, expressed often in many and various ways; the matter of whether a person wears a Christian jewelry symbol, or expessed in ink on a wrist, for example, is sometimes part of that tale, right?

Blessings.

PS: I don't suppose that you yourself, @Deborah13 , or @handy , wear Christian jewelry? (or maybe you do, sometimes.) But it's what is in the heart that is where testimony begins, of course.

 

[jasoncran]

since I have sinner friends that have died, a one of them that were Buddhist. why not then should I remember him with the word Namaste? that isn't really bad and its close to a part of what shalom can allude to as well."i am blessed by you as a friend, and I also bless as a friend" harmless isn't it? yet to a Buddhist that didn't know me that would make him think I am like him!

 

[farouk]

since I have sinner friends that have died, a one of them that were Buddhist. why not then should I remember him with the word Namaste? that isn't really bad and its close to a part of what shalom can allude to as well."i am blessed by you as a friend, and I also bless as a friend" harmless isn't it? yet to a Buddhist that didn't know me that would make him think I am like him!

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION]:

I guess that we are at least talking about designs with Christian content rather than other content.

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

some people and I know them post dates of birth and death of a friend. and sometimes It has an image of them. my wife wants to do that with Cheyenne. that is why I posted that wolf pic with the feathers. she saw that and said that will do!

 

[farouk]

some people and I know them post dates of birth and death of a friend. and sometimes It has an image of them. my wife wants to do that with Cheyenne. that is why I posted that wolf pic with the feathers. she saw that and said that will do!

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION]:

Your wife wants her first tattoo, does she?

I guess the reasons for individuals wanting are hugely varied, anyway. Excuse the question: would your good wife be a Christian lady?

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

NO, my wife isn't. she is a mix of whatever she feels. I wont win this argument as she will do it. we have fought on like matters before, she is into indian myths and also ghosts and bought this

http://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Wolf-Channeling-Transformative-Lupine/dp/1402787634

now do you get the issue? a simple wolf can be taken that way. I love wolves too and some of the stuff she gets is benign to me but it can too far!

 

[farouk]

NO, my wife isn't. she is a mix of whatever she feels. I wont win this argument as she will do it. we have fought on like matters before, she is into indian myths and also ghosts and bought this

http://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Wolf-Channeling-Transformative-Lupine/dp/1402787634

now do you get the issue? a simple wolf can be taken that way. I love wolves too and some of the stuff she gets is benign to me but it can too far!

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION]:

Well, keep praying for your good wife, I'm sure you do.

Maybe you're wondering whether to go with her to the parlor as a husband's support; or maybe your thoughts - some questioning - might make you decide not to; but you guys will figure out whether she goes on her own or with you as well.

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

I will not support this, did you really bother with that link. its a book on spirituality and it uses wolves to make a point. wolves and the way they work in pack is how the indian societies in general work? so why would go and support that pagan image. look I am not saying all of that is bad but its how she would take it. before It didn't bother me as I know it was her indian past and it wasn't an idol or an influence but now I cant be so sure.