Pornography and marriage

[Strangelove]

Look at it this way...

What pornography exists that does not involve another person or people? Pictures? There are models and photographers. Movies? DVD's? Actors, Directors, Producers. Especially the actors and models...all these people promoting lust, and all in your marriage bed. How can this not be adultery?

I wouldn't say its adultery.

I would say its supporting sexual immorality. And therefore partaking on that sin yourself.

 

[jnr2]

you are right, everything is not allowed in Christ. You took my generality regarding the "once saved, always saved" doctrine and corrected me.

 

[bibleMAN]

I think it's not suitable. It's lust, because the turn on would be the thought of sex with someone else.. Absolutely not in line with what I think God's view of marriage and sex should be. The problem is, if it's a habit its obviously hard to crack, but it's possible.

 

[Lewis]

hagee_falwell you really, really and I mean really need to go here.

Christians addicted to porn - Google Search

 

[matthew]

PS 101;3 i will set no wicked thing before my eyes

 

[Bonairos]

Asking the question reveals the heart's desire.

I'm amazed at the assumptions made by simply posting a topic to dialog on (not just this thread but others also). Perhaps our judgments reveal "our" heart condition and keeps us from EFFECTIVELY ministering the Gospel of Christ.

Having said that, I do agree that watching porn is not right for some of the reasons already mentioned.

I'd like to add another reason.

Comparing (what we do, what they do, etc). When one compares you do one of two things; either put yourself up and someone else down or put yourself down and someone else up. Both are wrong. And this holds true for other matters in life as well.

God created us as unique individuals (marriages included). Celebrate, enjoy, and benefit from that!


Be blessed, Stay blessed!

 

[HazelWings]

I used this image to explain something to a teenager about smoking marijuana. I think you might be able to benifit from this as well.

If Jesus was to stand right in front of you - would you offer Him marijuana? If not, then it is wrong.

So, if Jesus came to live in your house for a week, would you invite Him with you to go and choose some pornographic material to spice up your sex life?

I absolutely LOVE this!

My personal experience is that pornography was one of the things that helped break apart my marriage, and any future relationships will only be with a man who will not touch it.

 

[warhorse]

Is it okay for a married couple to look at pornography together as a way to enhance their sex-lives?

As a recovering porn addict, i can tell you the answer is no. It as taken years but those images for the most part have stopped appearing in my head. Porn is simply ammo for saten. You load it and he shoots you with it, during important moments like when God wants to reveal a bit of himsef to you on sunday. When you need to witness to that women you work with. Or you just go out in public.
It is never satisfying, there is never enough. You cant handle it, and its like quicksand, the more you struggle to break free the more focused and trapped you become. I would recomend you study a book called (every mans battle).

 

[jasoncran]

As a recovering porn addict, i can tell you the answer is no. It as taken years but those images for the most part have stopped appearing in my head. Porn is simply ammo for saten. You load it and he shoots you with it, during important moments like when God wants to reveal a bit of himsef to you on sunday. When you need to witness to that women you work with. Or you just go out in public.
It is never satisfying, there is never enough. You cant handle it, and its like quicksand, the more you struggle to break free the more focused and trapped you become. I would reccomend you study a book called (every mans battle).

i hear that. man in church i still get hit by that. i hate that,and it doesnt help when the ladies dress in clothes that show too much cleavage.

 

[warhorse]

i hear that. man in church i still get hit by that. i hate that,and it doesnt help when the ladies dress in clothes that show too much cleavage.

or just have figures that a box could not hide. i loathed it while i was hooked and i thank God for my short memory. It has been about 8 years now with no intent to view porn. i actually dropped my facebook account, because i started getting freind requests from naked women. But no man is ever totally free from this fight.

 

[jasoncran]

or just have figures that a box could not hide. i loathed it while i was hooked and i thank god for my short memory. But no man is ever totally free from this fight.

no, its been less then a year and i still stuggle with wanting to look at porn. i get the thoughts.

we should talk on this in mens forum.

 

[Igor]

I'm wondering about some of what has been said here. Isn't it possible that seeing porn is different for someone who has never been addicted to it than it is for someone who is addicted to it? You know, much like some people can casually drink alcohol from time to time and not become drunks, but alcoholics must stay completely away from it or they fall right back into drunkenness. And of course, just like we have a responsibility not to knowingly tempt an alcoholic with alcohol, we can't knowingly tempt a porn addict with porn either!

Now I've never watched porn with my wife as a sexual stimulant, and I certainly wouldn't think watching it would be a good testimony to my neighbors. But I want to play a little devil's advocate here to try to get some really solid scriptural answers:

Why is porn so sinful if not abused? We are told that nothing is unclean for us, although not everything is expedient. Of course, this doesn't apply to those things which we are clearly told are sinful, such as murder. But there is no commandment stating "Thow shalt not watch porn" (or whatever the equivalent would have been at the time the commandments were given. Watching harem girls dance, perhaps?)

It is not necessarily condemned as lust. The type of lust the Bible condemns is a "strong desire that supersedes your desire for God". Porn can become this type of lust, but doesn't have to, any more than the desire for many other things can become lust that supersedes our desire for God. Money comes to mind right away!

It is not adultery. Adultery is the use of sex to steal another's spouse. Probably most people that watch porn never actually meet any of the actors/actresses and have real sex with them for the purpose of taking them away from their spouses. Nor do most rational people actually believe this would ever happen to them. (Fantasy and belief are not the same thing!) Maybe it's possible that someone could watch porn and actually develop a lust for the person in the movie to the point that they think they may get the chance to actually commit adultery with them, but that would be the exception, not the norm. This type of person would probably be already "committing adultery in their hearts" with many other people that they see on a daily basis as well, so it's not logical to put all the blame for this on porn.

It's also not fornication, since there is no real sex involved between the watcher and the actors/actresses, especially no sex involving idolatry, which is a part of fornication.

I've been in situations where, for legitimate reasons, I have seen porn, have been present for a brief time during the actual filming of some of it, and have also been around other related activities that most on here would probably condemn. But I did not sin. I did not loose control over myself and lust after the ladies to the point that the idea of having sex with them was more important to me than God, nor did I commit any other sins as a result.

So is porn sin? In and of itself, I think not. Is it a good thing? Is it expedient? Probably not. At least it's not for me. (And Jason, warhorse, and others on here can attest to how damaging it was for them!) Are there bad and sinful things that are related to porn? Yeah, there are. Just like there are bad and sinful things related to many other aspects of our lives.

But, if watching porn in and of itself is a sin, I would like to see the specific scripture cited that says this. (Really, I would. I could use it when talking to people about this subject!!!) Sometimes it is just too easy for us to condemn people for certain activities just because we consider them bad for ourselves, and we are used to hearing that they are bad in our churches. We need to remember that if we condemn someone for something they are doing, we need to have solid scriptural support that the thing they are doing is actually a sin. We need more than just our own opinions or church tradition to tell someone they are sinning.

OK, end of devil's advocate game. But really, I do want to see the scripture. Not paraphrased in someones individual interpretation, but the actual scripture with verse and version reference!

 

[Sam21]

I'm wondering about some of what has been said here. Isn't it possible that seeing porn is different for someone who has never been addicted to it than it is for someone who is addicted to it? You know, much like some people can casually drink alcohol from time to time and not become drunks, but alcoholics must stay completely away from it or they fall right back into drunkenness. And of course, just like we have a responsibility not to knowingly tempt an alcoholic with alcohol, we can't knowingly tempt a porn addict with porn either!

Now I've never watched porn with my wife as a sexual stimulant, and I certainly wouldn't think watching it would be a good testimony to my neighbors. But I want to play a little devil's advocate here to try to get some really solid scriptural answers:

Why is porn so sinful if not abused? We are told that nothing is unclean for us, although not everything is expedient. Of course, this doesn't apply to those things which we are clearly told are sinful, such as murder. But there is no commandment stating "Thow shalt not watch porn" (or whatever the equivalent would have been at the time the commandments were given. Watching harem girls dance, perhaps?)

It is not necessarily condemned as lust. The type of lust the Bible condemns is a "strong desire that supersedes your desire for God". Porn can become this type of lust, but doesn't have to, any more than the desire for many other things can become lust that supersedes our desire for God. Money comes to mind right away!

It is not adultery. Adultery is the use of sex to steal another's spouse. Probably most people that watch porn never actually meet any of the actors/actresses and have real sex with them for the purpose of taking them away from their spouses. Nor do most rational people actually believe this would ever happen to them. (Fantasy and belief are not the same thing!) Maybe it's possible that someone could watch porn and actually develop a lust for the person in the movie to the point that they think they may get the chance to actually commit adultery with them, but that would be the exception, not the norm. This type of person would probably be already "committing adultery in their hearts" with many other people that they see on a daily basis as well, so it's not logical to put all the blame for this on porn.

It's also not fornication, since there is no real sex involved between the watcher and the actors/actresses, especially no sex involving idolatry, which is a part of fornication.

I've been in situations where, for legitimate reasons, I have seen porn, have been present for a brief time during the actual filming of some of it, and have also been around other related activities that most on here would probably condemn. But I did not sin. I did not loose control over myself and lust after the ladies to the point that the idea of having sex with them was more important to me than God, nor did I commit any other sins as a result.

So is porn sin? In and of itself, I think not. Is it a good thing? Is it expedient? Probably not. At least it's not for me. (And Jason, warhorse, and others on here can attest to how damaging it was for them!) Are there bad and sinful things that are related to porn? Yeah, there are. Just like there are bad and sinful things related to many other aspects of our lives.

But, if watching porn in and of itself is a sin, I would like to see the specific scripture cited that says this. (Really, I would. I could use it when talking to people about this subject!!!) Sometimes it is just too easy for us to condemn people for certain activities just because we consider them bad for ourselves, and we are used to hearing that they are bad in our churches. We need to remember that if we condemn someone for something they are doing, we need to have solid scriptural support that the thing they are doing is actually a sin. We need more than just our own opinions or church tradition to tell someone they are sinning.

OK, end of devil's advocate game. But really, I do want to see the scripture. Not paraphrased in someones individual interpretation, but the actual scripture with verse and version reference!

Abstain from all appearance of evil? It would be pretty hard to witness of the saving power of Jesus Christ to the person who is watching porn with you.

 

[theLords]

I'm sure you were expecting this, but: wow, just wow.

Why is porn so sinful if not abused? We are told that nothing is unclean for us, although not everything is expedient. Of course, this doesn't apply to those things which we are clearly told are sinful, such as murder. But there is no commandment stating "Thow shalt not watch porn" (or whatever the equivalent would have been at the time the commandments were given.)

How is watching two people fornicate acceptable for a man or women of God? Let's ask the age old question: would you invite Christ to watch pornography with you?

It is not necessarily condemned as lust. The type of lust the Bible condemns is a "strong desire that supersedes your desire for God". Porn can become this type of lust, but doesn't have to, any more than the desire for many other things can become lust that supersedes our desire for God. Money comes to mind right away!

What kind of rationalization is this? What is lust? What does the Bible have to say about lust? (or http://www.gotquestions .org/what-is-lust.html [remove spaces])

It is not adultery. Adultery is the use of sex to steal another's spouse. Probably most people that watch porn never actually meet any of the actors/actresses and have real sex with them for the purpose of taking them away from their spouses. Nor do most rational people actually believe this would ever happen to them. (Fantasy and belief are not the same thing!) Maybe it's possible that someone could watch porn and actually develop a lust for the person in the movie to the point that they think they may get the chance to actually commit adultery with them, but that would be the exception, not the norm. This type of person would probably be already "committing adultery in their hearts" with many other people that they see on a daily basis as well, so it's not logical to put all the blame for this on porn.

Steal another person's wife? Many people engaged in adultery have only one desire: physical pleasure. How is watching another person commit a sexual act not adultery for those married?

It's also not fornication, since there is no real sex involved between the watcher and the actors/actresses, especially no sex involving idolatry, which is a part of fornication.

What?

<< Matthew 5:28 >>

New International Version (©1984)

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I

've been in many situations where, for legitimate reasons, I have seen porn, have been present for a brief time during the actual filming of some of it, and have also been around other related activities that most on here would probably condemn. But I did not sin. I did not loose control over myself and lust after the ladies to the point that the idea of having sex with them was more important to me than God, nor did I commit any other sins as a result.

You've established your character as a man of God on this board, so I am going to continue to view you in this light. I'm going to assume that you watched/were present for the filming of porn/have been present around other "material" before you met Christ. However, you're "I did not sin" comment is kind of iffy . Regardless, it's the Holy Spirit's job to do convicting of sin. I'm simply surprised by that statement...

So is porn sin? In and of itself, I think not. Is it a good thing? Is it expedient? Probably not. At least it's not for me. (And Jason, warhorse, and others on here can attest to how damaging it was for them!) Are there bad and sinful things that are related to porn? Yeah, there are. Just like there are bad and sinful things related to many other aspects of our lives.

There is nothing good in porn. No not one good thing. Yes, the making and viewing of pornography is a sin. I think the problem you're having is the definition of "lust" which you have based your entire "argument" on. Frankly, as a staunch opponent of the filth of the porn industry, I'm a little "passionate" about this issue and surprised that anyone would want to advocate for such a thing.

Why does one watch porn in the first place? What drives them to it? There's only one reason to watch porn.

But, if watching porn in and of itself is a sin, I would like to see the specific scripture cited that says this. (Really, I would. I could use it when talking to people about this subject!!!) Sometimes it is just too easy for us to condemn people for certain activities just because we consider them bad for ourselves, and we are used to hearing that they are bad in our churches. We need to remember that if we condemn someone for something they are doing, we need to have solid scriptural support that the thing they are doing is actually a sin. We need more than just our own opinions or church tradition to tell someone they are sinning.

OK, end of devil's advocate game. But really, I do want to see the scripture. Not paraphrased in someones individual interpretation, but the actual scripture with verse and version reference!

The problem you are going to face is your definition of "lust" is extremely "fine-tuned" to fit your viewpoint. Scripture can be presented but you would state that it doesn't fit your definition of lust begetting a Mexican standoff.

In a time when Satan is oppressing the world with the problem of pornography, why oh why, would you make such a statement? Pornography destroys lives, marriages, hearts. I mean c'mon...

Forgive me if I'm coming off strong, but this is simply absurd. As a women, the porn industry makes me livid. It abuses women and degrades women! The porn industry is nothing but a sadistic misogynist tool that the devil uses to imprison the hearts of men. :rant

Shelley Lubben - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

OR

http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/Shelley_Lubben

shelleylubben.com | Former Porn Actress Shelley Lubben

OR

http://www.shelleylubben .com/

Amazon.com: Truth Behind the Fantasy of Porn: The Greatest Illusion on Earth (9781453860076): Shelley Lubben: Books

OR

http://www.amazon .com/Truth-Behind-Fantasy-Porn-Greatest/dp/145386007X

(REMOVE ALL SPACES IF COPYING AND PASTING)

 

[Igor]

Abstain from all appearance of evil? It would be pretty hard to witness of the saving power of Jesus Christ to the person who is watching porn with you.

As I said, it may not be expedient. But I suppose having a beer with a friend that doesn't condemn alcohol wouldn't prevent me from witnessing. It would be a matter of whether the person saw porn as sinful.

As far as the appearance of evil verse, that one is too overused as a catch all for condemnation when there is no other relevant verse that applies to the thing being condemned. For something to be evil, God has to have actually told us it is evil. That verse has been used to condemn everything from taking baths to watching football. Show me a verse that specifically says watching porn (or the ancient equivalent of it) is actually evil.


And please keep in mind, before any of you fine folks condemn me and have me burned at the stake, I'm not advocating porn as a good thing. But I do have to have solid scripture before I can council or testify to others that it, in and of itself, is a sin against God.

 

[theLords]

As I said, it may not be expedient. But I suppose having a beer with a friend that doesn't condemn alcohol wouldn't prevent me from witnessing. It would be a matter of whether the person saw porn as sinful.

This statement is ridiculous beyond words. Of course no unbeliever is going to view pornography as sin. They don't believe ANYTHING is a sin because they live outside of the law of God. How can you equate having a beer, which cannot cause intoxication to be considered lawful, as watching two naked human beings fornicate with each other! If another Christian couple allowed you to watch them have sex, would God think it alright for you to stand in their bedroom and do so? Where is the holy shame of the Lord in these statements of yours?

Ephesians 5:12
For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

As far as the appearance of evil verse, that one is too overused as a catch all for condemnation when there is no other relevant verse that applies to the thing being condemned. For something to be evil, God has to have actually told us it is evil. That verse has been used to condemn everything from taking baths to watching football. Show me a verse that specifically says watching porn (or the ancient equivalent of it) is actually evil.

What? So because a verse is used to condemn taking baths and watching football then we should abstain from applying it when needed? Our justice system is abused every day, should we abolish it? God hasn't specifically told us heroine is evil, would you like to campaign that it is not sinful now? The Bible doesn't say orgies are sinful, should one advocate for the allowance of orgies in the Church?

And please keep in mind, before any of you fine folks condemn me and have me burned at the stake, I'm not advocating porn as a good thing. But I do have to have solid scripture before I can council or testify to others that it, in and of itself, is a sin against God.

Please stop making yourself out to be some martyr. :

What absurd statements to make. How about you use this verse to council others:

Romans 14:21
[It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

If anyone watches porn there are only 2 reactions to it. (1) one of extreme disgust which causes that person to turn away (2) one of enjoyment which causes sexual thoughts and leads to sin. There is no medium ground.

Please answer this: Why would anyone want to watch another person have sex? Why would anyone want to watch porn?

PORNOGRAPHY QUOTES FROM THOSE INSIDE THE INDUSTRY:

"Things are getting more and more demeaning towards women. It's degrading. It's very, very violent." - "Doctor" Sharon Mitchell

"I sit there everyday and I sew up anal tears and anal prolapse and the physical conditions of what people are putting their bodies through is getting very, very far away from sexuality as we know it." - "Doctor" Sharon Mitchell

"Where else but in porn can you see a guy who just met a girl that day crack her around, choke her out." - Brandon Iron, porn producer

"I'm not here to apologize. I'm just here to say, 'We make entertainment and let's see how far we can take it.'" - Max Hardcore, former porn performer/producer

"Degradation drives the business. … There are things going on right now that are way over the line." - Khan Tusion, porn producer

"Even the mildest pornography is shocking to the average person. I’m surprised it’s legal." - Paul Thomas, porn producer

"The girls get torn up like usual." - Vince Vouyer, porn producer

"I find myself not that much unlike the slaves and slave traders of some 400 years ago. I participate in the most heinous of ALL trades- THE BUYING AND SELLING OF HUMAN FLESH. I trade my own flesh for monetary compensation and I sell the flesh of others for the same." - Lexington Steele, porn performer/producer

"I was the first to shoot Rocco. Together we evolved toward rougher stuff. He started to spit on girls. A strong male-dominant thing, with women being pushed to their limit. It looks like violence but it's not. I mean, pleasure and pain are the same thing, right?" - John Stagliano, porn producer

"This industry is full of people that hate - literally HATE women." - Julie Meadows, former porn star

 

[theLords]

Does lust (porn) produce life or does lust (porn) produce death?

Job 31:11-12 (NLT)
"For lust is a shameful sin, a crime that should be punished. It is a devastating fire that destroys to hell. It would wipe out everything I own."

 

[theLords]

PS 101;3 i will set no wicked thing before my eyes

....

 

[jasoncran]

if one is a convicted child sexual predator or rapist on parole.porn is off limits and is a violation of parole and or probation.

 

[Sam21]

As I said, it may not be expedient. But I suppose having a beer with a friend that doesn't condemn alcohol wouldn't prevent me from witnessing. It would be a matter of whether the person saw porn as sinful.

As far as the appearance of evil verse, that one is too overused as a catch all for condemnation when there is no other relevant verse that applies to the thing being condemned. For something to be evil, God has to have actually told us it is evil. That verse has been used to condemn everything from taking baths to watching football. Show me a verse that specifically says watching porn (or the ancient equivalent of it) is actually evil.


And please keep in mind, before any of you fine folks condemn me and have me burned at the stake, I'm not advocating porn as a good thing. But I do have to have solid scripture before I can council or testify to others that it, in and of itself, is a sin against God.

There is no specific verse in the bible that says,you shall not look at porn. I suppose that if you as a man can watch a naked women doing all sorts of things and not have a single lustful thought,just a pure mind, then you could probably watch porn and it would be alright,however most men could not do that.