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Pre-Trib Rapture

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What is your Opinion on this? Does scripture state anything concerning this or not? Why or Why not?

Just looking for answers.....:eeeekkk


I am Of the opinion that their is a Pre-Trib Rapture, but would like to hear others opinions and facts....
 
A couple myths naysayers will repeat (because they've been taught them, not because they've actually researched them) in argument against a pre-Tribulation Rapture:

"The Rapture was not taught until the 1800's."

In Grant Jeffrey's book "Triumphant Return", he writes that about 373 AD Ephraem taught in a sermon that there was a pre-tribulation rapture. This writing can be found in Ephraem's sermon "On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World.", Ephraem said in this sermon, "For the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins". Ephraem also taught in this same sermon that the war of Gog and Magog in Ezekiel 38-39 would precede the tribulation and he taught the imminent return of Jesus.

"There is no 'secret rapture' of the Church."

Of course not, and there is nothing in Scripture that describes it as "secret" either.
The rapture will not be secret. In fact the world has been informed that it will happen through many popular writings like the "Left Behind" series. The rapture event itself will be known to all who will witness the missing people, although the government will certainly come up with some cockamamie excuse for us being gone. The "New Age" pagans have even pre-prepared explanations for the rapture in some of their writings.

Now for some proofs of the pre-trib rapture:

Revelation 19:11-21 doesn't mention a resurrection. The rapture is a resurrection of those "in Christ" (1 Thess. 4:13-18). Isn't it a little bit odd that in Rev. 19:11-21, which is the clearest picture of the second coming of Christ, there is no mention of a resurrection? The rapture will be the biggest event since the resurrection of Jesus where hundreds of millions of Christians will be resurrected and translated, yet there isn't any mention here. Don't you think it deserves at least one verse? The rapture isn't mentioned because it doesn't happen at the second coming.

The Known Day and the Unknown Day. Concerning the return of Jesus, the Bible presents a day we can't know and a day we can know. Matthew 25:13 says Jesus will return at an unknown time, while Revelation 12:6 says the Jews will have to wait 1,260 days for the Lord to return. The 1,260 days begins when the Antichrist stands in the Temple and declares himself to be God (Matt. 24:15-21, 2 Thess. 2:4) This event will take place at the mid-point of the seven year Tribulation (Dan 9:27). The Antichrist has authority to rule for 42 months, which is 1,260 days (Rev. 13:4) and will be destroyed by Jesus at His second coming (Rev. 19:20, 2 Thess. 2:8). The known and unknown days must happen at different times, meaning they are two separate events.

A door open in heaven (Revelation 4:1). The door in heaven is opened to let John into heaven. He is told by the angel, "Come up here." We believe John's call into heaven is prophetic of the Church being caught up at the rapture (see proof #6). In Revelation 19:11, heaven is opened again, this time to let the armies which are already in heaven out. This is the Church, which has been raptured at a previous time, following Jesus out of heaven at the second coming.

The 24 elders have their crowns. After John is called up into heaven, he sees the 24 elders with their crowns (Rev. 4:4-10). We know that Christians will receive their rewards (crowns) at the rapture (2 Tim. 4:8, 1 Pet. 5:4). We will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous (Luke 14:14). The elders couldn't receive their crowns unless the resurrection (rapture) has taken place.

Kept from the hour of testing (Rev. 3:10). Revelation 3:10 says we will be kept out of the hour of testing which will come upon the whole earth (the Tribulation). Some have wrongly believed "keep" means to keep through, or protect through the Tribulation. Suppose you approach a high voltage area with a sign that says, "Keep Out." Does that mean you can enter and be protected? No, it means you are forbidden from entering the area. But this verse also says He will keep us from the hour of testing. It is not just the testing, but the time period. If a student is excused from a test, he still may have to sit in the class while others take the test. But if he is excused from the hour of testing, he can go home. The Church will be called home before the hour of testing.

Both wicked and righteous both can't be taken first. First Thessalonians 4:13-17 says the righteous are taken and the wicked are left behind. Matthew 13:30, 49 says the wicked are taken first and righteous are left behind. This points to two separate events, the rapture and the second coming.

Jesus returns from the wedding. When Jesus returns to earth at the second coming, He will return from a wedding (Luke 12:36). At the rapture, Jesus is married to His bride, the Church. After the wedding, He will return to earth.

Who will populate the Millennium? If the rapture occurs at the second coming and the wicked are cast into hell at that time, who will be left to populate the millennium? Only people in their natural (non-resurrected) bodies will be able to have children (Matt. 22:30). With a Pre-Tribulation rapture, the people saved after the rapture who are alive at the second coming will populate the earth during the Millennium

Those are just a few. there are more.
 
A couple myths naysayers will repeat (because they've been taught them, not because they've actually researched them) in argument against a pre-Tribulation Rapture:

"The Rapture was not taught until the 1800's."

In Grant Jeffrey's book "Triumphant Return", he writes that about 373 AD Ephraem taught in a sermon that there was a pre-tribulation rapture. This writing can be found in Ephraem's sermon "On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World.", Ephraem said in this sermon, "For the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins". Ephraem also taught in this same sermon that the war of Gog and Magog in Ezekiel 38-39 would precede the tribulation and he taught the imminent return of Jesus.

"There is no 'secret rapture' of the Church."

Of course not, and there is nothing in Scripture that describes it as "secret" either.
The rapture will not be secret. In fact the world has been informed that it will happen through many popular writings like the "Left Behind" series. The rapture event itself will be known to all who will witness the missing people, although the government will certainly come up with some cockamamie excuse for us being gone. The "New Age" pagans have even pre-prepared explanations for the rapture in some of their writings.

Now for some proofs of the pre-trib rapture:

Revelation 19:11-21 doesn't mention a resurrection. The rapture is a resurrection of those "in Christ" (1 Thess. 4:13-18). Isn't it a little bit odd that in Rev. 19:11-21, which is the clearest picture of the second coming of Christ, there is no mention of a resurrection? The rapture will be the biggest event since the resurrection of Jesus where hundreds of millions of Christians will be resurrected and translated, yet there isn't any mention here. Don't you think it deserves at least one verse? The rapture isn't mentioned because it doesn't happen at the second coming.

The Known Day and the Unknown Day. Concerning the return of Jesus, the Bible presents a day we can't know and a day we can know. Matthew 25:13 says Jesus will return at an unknown time, while Revelation 12:6 says the Jews will have to wait 1,260 days for the Lord to return. The 1,260 days begins when the Antichrist stands in the Temple and declares himself to be God (Matt. 24:15-21, 2 Thess. 2:4) This event will take place at the mid-point of the seven year Tribulation (Dan 9:27). The Antichrist has authority to rule for 42 months, which is 1,260 days (Rev. 13:4) and will be destroyed by Jesus at His second coming (Rev. 19:20, 2 Thess. 2:8). The known and unknown days must happen at different times, meaning they are two separate events.

A door open in heaven (Revelation 4:1). The door in heaven is opened to let John into heaven. He is told by the angel, "Come up here." We believe John's call into heaven is prophetic of the Church being caught up at the rapture (see proof #6). In Revelation 19:11, heaven is opened again, this time to let the armies which are already in heaven out. This is the Church, which has been raptured at a previous time, following Jesus out of heaven at the second coming.

The 24 elders have their crowns. After John is called up into heaven, he sees the 24 elders with their crowns (Rev. 4:4-10). We know that Christians will receive their rewards (crowns) at the rapture (2 Tim. 4:8, 1 Pet. 5:4). We will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous (Luke 14:14). The elders couldn't receive their crowns unless the resurrection (rapture) has taken place.

Kept from the hour of testing (Rev. 3:10). Revelation 3:10 says we will be kept out of the hour of testing which will come upon the whole earth (the Tribulation). Some have wrongly believed "keep" means to keep through, or protect through the Tribulation. Suppose you approach a high voltage area with a sign that says, "Keep Out." Does that mean you can enter and be protected? No, it means you are forbidden from entering the area. But this verse also says He will keep us from the hour of testing. It is not just the testing, but the time period. If a student is excused from a test, he still may have to sit in the class while others take the test. But if he is excused from the hour of testing, he can go home. The Church will be called home before the hour of testing.

Both wicked and righteous both can't be taken first. First Thessalonians 4:13-17 says the righteous are taken and the wicked are left behind. Matthew 13:30, 49 says the wicked are taken first and righteous are left behind. This points to two separate events, the rapture and the second coming.

Jesus returns from the wedding. When Jesus returns to earth at the second coming, He will return from a wedding (Luke 12:36). At the rapture, Jesus is married to His bride, the Church. After the wedding, He will return to earth.

Who will populate the Millennium? If the rapture occurs at the second coming and the wicked are cast into hell at that time, who will be left to populate the millennium? Only people in their natural (non-resurrected) bodies will be able to have children (Matt. 22:30). With a Pre-Tribulation rapture, the people saved after the rapture who are alive at the second coming will populate the earth during the Millennium

Those are just a few. there are more.

Well, if you're not going to be thorough how can we take you seriously? :wink3
 
Both wicked and righteous both can't be taken first. First Thessalonians 4:13-17 says the righteous are taken and the wicked are left behind. Matthew 13:30, 49 says the wicked are taken first and righteous are left behind. This points to two separate events, the rapture and the second coming.
There is one guy this all falls on. Jesus! :clap and He had this to say....

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Great topic of which i can only read cause i know i will have to moderate! :wave
 
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Well you cant quote Jesus is support of it, a fair indication that it is not to be taken seriously.
 

There is one guy this all falls on. Jesus! :clap and He had this to say....

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;
Insert 1,000 years here
and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Great topic of which i can only read cause i know i will have to moderate! :wave
 
A couple myths naysayers will repeat (because they've been taught them, not because they've actually researched them) in argument against a pre-Tribulation Rapture:

"The Rapture was not taught until the 1800's."

In Grant Jeffrey's book "Triumphant Return", he writes that about 373 AD Ephraem taught in a sermon that there was a pre-tribulation rapture. This writing can be found in Ephraem's sermon "On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World.", Ephraem said in this sermon, "For the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins". Ephraem also taught in this same sermon that the war of Gog and Magog in Ezekiel 38-39 would precede the tribulation and he taught the imminent return of Jesus.

"There is no 'secret rapture' of the Church."

Of course not, and there is nothing in Scripture that describes it as "secret" either.
The rapture will not be secret. In fact the world has been informed that it will happen through many popular writings like the "Left Behind" series. The rapture event itself will be known to all who will witness the missing people, although the government will certainly come up with some cockamamie excuse for us being gone. The "New Age" pagans have even pre-prepared explanations for the rapture in some of their writings.

Now for some proofs of the pre-trib rapture:

Revelation 19:11-21 doesn't mention a resurrection. The rapture is a resurrection of those "in Christ" (1 Thess. 4:13-18). Isn't it a little bit odd that in Rev. 19:11-21, which is the clearest picture of the second coming of Christ, there is no mention of a resurrection? The rapture will be the biggest event since the resurrection of Jesus where hundreds of millions of Christians will be resurrected and translated, yet there isn't any mention here. Don't you think it deserves at least one verse? The rapture isn't mentioned because it doesn't happen at the second coming.

The Known Day and the Unknown Day. Concerning the return of Jesus, the Bible presents a day we can't know and a day we can know. Matthew 25:13 says Jesus will return at an unknown time, while Revelation 12:6 says the Jews will have to wait 1,260 days for the Lord to return. The 1,260 days begins when the Antichrist stands in the Temple and declares himself to be God (Matt. 24:15-21, 2 Thess. 2:4) This event will take place at the mid-point of the seven year Tribulation (Dan 9:27). The Antichrist has authority to rule for 42 months, which is 1,260 days (Rev. 13:4) and will be destroyed by Jesus at His second coming (Rev. 19:20, 2 Thess. 2:8). The known and unknown days must happen at different times, meaning they are two separate events.

A door open in heaven (Revelation 4:1). The door in heaven is opened to let John into heaven. He is told by the angel, "Come up here." We believe John's call into heaven is prophetic of the Church being caught up at the rapture (see proof #6). In Revelation 19:11, heaven is opened again, this time to let the armies which are already in heaven out. This is the Church, which has been raptured at a previous time, following Jesus out of heaven at the second coming.

The 24 elders have their crowns. After John is called up into heaven, he sees the 24 elders with their crowns (Rev. 4:4-10). We know that Christians will receive their rewards (crowns) at the rapture (2 Tim. 4:8, 1 Pet. 5:4). We will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous (Luke 14:14). The elders couldn't receive their crowns unless the resurrection (rapture) has taken place.

Kept from the hour of testing (Rev. 3:10). Revelation 3:10 says we will be kept out of the hour of testing which will come upon the whole earth (the Tribulation). Some have wrongly believed "keep" means to keep through, or protect through the Tribulation. Suppose you approach a high voltage area with a sign that says, "Keep Out." Does that mean you can enter and be protected? No, it means you are forbidden from entering the area. But this verse also says He will keep us from the hour of testing. It is not just the testing, but the time period. If a student is excused from a test, he still may have to sit in the class while others take the test. But if he is excused from the hour of testing, he can go home. The Church will be called home before the hour of testing.

Both wicked and righteous both can't be taken first. First Thessalonians 4:13-17 says the righteous are taken and the wicked are left behind. Matthew 13:30, 49 says the wicked are taken first and righteous are left behind. This points to two separate events, the rapture and the second coming.

Jesus returns from the wedding. When Jesus returns to earth at the second coming, He will return from a wedding (Luke 12:36). At the rapture, Jesus is married to His bride, the Church. After the wedding, He will return to earth.

Who will populate the Millennium? If the rapture occurs at the second coming and the wicked are cast into hell at that time, who will be left to populate the millennium? Only people in their natural (non-resurrected) bodies will be able to have children (Matt. 22:30). With a Pre-Tribulation rapture, the people saved after the rapture who are alive at the second coming will populate the earth during the Millennium

Those are just a few. there are more.

so those in that millenium who live and repented wont be raised on that last day when they die? hmm that is well kinda pointless since christs returns implies and end of sin. IF the rapture is known then well how do you reconcile the idea of know man knoweth the hour?
 
What is your Opinion on this? Does scripture state anything concerning this or not? Why or Why not?

Just looking for answers.....:eeeekkk


I am Of the opinion that their is a Pre-Trib Rapture, but would like to hear others opinions and facts....
Basic to the discussion is the reason the 'great tribulation' occurs in history.
The reason is the regicide. No doubt soon the usual nonsense wrt 'this generation' will come up, ho hum. Its quite simple ,only the generation of Chirst's contemporaries was capable of committing the crime that brings the destruction. (M22;7).

Paul confirms ;



5 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: 16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.


Uttermost is quite a lot. Uttermost is as much as there is.

As evil as men can be it is not possible for any man at any time to commit the crime of murdering Jesus Christ.

So the reason Christ and Paul both give for the vengeance is long since past and is not repeatable. Jesus told us quite plainly that the tribulation would be a unique event in history, just as he told us who he held responsible.

This is to expose just one of the rotten planks of pre-tribulationism.

You are invited though to show why the terrible temporal judgments should be rendered upon an generation thousands of years distant from the regicide.Good luck.
 
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The Purpose of the Tribulation is the Jews Salvation.
really so theres no jews such me and my bro and dad and great uncle that arent saved? i know at least six i can name that are jews that are saved. the blood doesnt need to remove the church in order to work on the hebrews.
 
Basic to the discussion is the reason the 'great tribulation' occurs in history.
The reason is the regicide. No doubt soon the usual nonsense wrt 'this generation' will come up, ho hum. Its quite simple ,only the generation of Chirst's contemporaries was capable of committing the crime that brings the destruction. (M22;7).

Paul confirms ;



5 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: 16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.


Uttermost is quite a lot. Uttermost is as much as there is.

As evil as men can be it is not possible for any man at any time to commit the crime of murdering Jesus Christ.

So the reason Christ and Paul both give for the vengeance is long since past and is not repeatable. Jesus told us quite plainly that the tribulation would be a unique event in history, just as he told us who he held responsible.

This is to expose just one of the rotten planks of pre-tribulationism.

You are invited though to show why the terrible temporal judgments should be rendered upon an generation thousands of years distant from the regicide.Good luck.
hitch thats just plain antisemetic. ironically.
 
The Purpose of the Tribulation is the Jews Salvation.
The jews salvation came with Christ, I suggest a review of the opening chapter of Luke's Gospel.

Further it is contrary to apostolic writ to suggest that there is some future time set aside for salvation of the jews when Paul quotes the prophet (Isa 49) and declares that now is the time now is the day of salvation.

That is the spiritualised/christianised aposotolic interpretation of the passage.

Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. 2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;
3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God.
5 And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.
6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
7 Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.
8 Thus saith the Lord, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;
 
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hitch, remember that when the futurist see romans 10 they see the land of isreal not necessarily really what paul meant by the people that make isreal.

there are exceptions, my pastor , a futurist, is one of them.
 
hitch, remember that when the futurist see romans 10 they see the land of isreal not necessarily really what paul meant by the people that make isreal.

there are exceptions, my pastor , a futurist, is one of them.
Fortunately they are only 'blind in part' , you and I are proof that Rapture Fever is not always fatal.
 
ironically it was in the defense of futurism that i saw it for it was. and most of the time futurists would be the ones to push me from it. when i got more into judiasm and chiefly hebrew roots i found the idea of some zionist supremacy that overshadows the cross isnt what the sages nor writers of the tanach ever taught. that is a pharisitical thing. whiles it true per justim martyr that the millenium was taught by some but it wasnt like today. nor was it dominant.
 
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