Bible Study Predestination and Election in the Bible

[Butch5]

I find it interesting when people say, what you did, about the passage in Romans.

Romans 9:6-7
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.”

Your saying that it is the decedents of Israel, yet Paul says not all who are descended from Israel, belong to Israel. So are you correct or is Paul?

Look at what he said. The people he is talking about are descended from Israel. Gentiles weren't descended from Israel, Israelites were. Remember this section is about Israel. What he is saying is that not all of the descendants of Israel (Jacob) are the Israel of God. He isn't even addressing the subject of the Gentiles.

Are you a plant guy? I am. I like to garden. I'm not good at it, but I like to do it anyways.

Do you suppose that the branch of a tree, grafted onto another tree, gets the same things that all the other branches get from that tree? Or does that tree decided to 'limit' what it gives to the grafted branch, and treat it differently?

Does that branch get all of the same things before it is grafted in? No, it doesn't receive those benefits until AFTER it is grafted into the new tree. It seems you're addressing the end result when we're speaking of the process. Paul explains how the Gentiles get the benefits of being grafted into Israel. God did all of these great things for Israel and then grafted the Gentiles into it.

 

[Nathan]

Look at what he said. The people he is talking about are descended from Israel. Gentiles weren't descended from Israel, Israelites were. Remember this section is about Israel. What he is saying is that not all of the descendants of Israel (Jacob) are the Israel of God. He isn't even addressing the subject of the Gentiles.



Does that branch get all of the same things before it is grafted in? No, it doesn't receive those benefits until AFTER it is grafted into the new tree. It seems you're addressing the end result when we're speaking of the process. Paul explains how the Gentiles get the benefits of being grafted into Israel. God did all of these great things for Israel and then grafted the Gentiles into it.

Paul is talking about the Gentiles in Romans 9, he specifically calls them out at the end of the chapter. I have to say, I've never heard your line of logic before. It's interesting.

Later, in chapter 11, Paul brings it all together - in that after the fullness of the Gentiles are brought in all Israel will be saved.

We also see that the Gentiles were not an afterthought, but a planned inclusion. Galatians 3 shows that this was done in Abraham - long before Jacob was born.

So while the Gentiles do not have the 'natural' inclination, and they are 'wild', they were brought into the tree to receive all the blessings - and are also predestined for this.

In the nature of 'time' they seem to be outside of it all. But God doesn't see things from our time, He works outside of it. Predestination is outside our time domaine. We can't understand it viewing it from the inside.