Predestination and Election in the Bible

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Nathan, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. Nathan

    Nathan Member

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    Just like "go to bed" is a commandment with a promise their hind ends won't be red. :)
     
  2. Nathan

    Nathan Member

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    And those are commands to those who have not believed yet.

    You don't tell your kids that are already in bed to go to bed.
     
  3. wondering

    wondering Member

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    Yes.
    1 John 5:13 is different in meaning from 1 John 5:1
     
  4. Nathan

    Nathan Member

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    That was affirmation from John to keep on believing.

    Like you would tell your kids, stay in bed. Lol
     
  5. Christ_empowered

    Christ_empowered Member

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    Christian:
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    the explanation i've read+heard is that all are commanded to believe upon Christ and live accordingly, but only The Elect are provided with what they need to heed the call of The Gospel.

    God expects everybody to believe upon Christ and follow His laws, but only The Elect will be provided with the supernatural means by which to do so. Something like that...
     
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  6. Nathan

    Nathan Member

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    Yes. :)
     
  7. wondering

    wondering Member

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    CE
    Calm down and reread what you just wrote.
    It doesn't make sense!!
    But I love you anyway...
     
  8. wondering

    wondering Member

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    WHO ARE THE ELECT??
     
  9. Nathan

    Nathan Member

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    That is the second part of the predestination. Or first, depending on how you view it.
     
  10. Nathan

    Nathan Member

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    The ones who believe.

    No one can come to Christ unless God calls them.
     
  11. wondering

    wondering Member

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    No. I meant "safe".
    God keeps us safe when we are saved!!
    Safe from satan
    Safe from the world system
    Safe from lots of things...
     
  12. wondering

    wondering Member

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    I have to leave for a little while, but...

    Are you a Calvinist in hiding??
    Does God not call everyone?
    For God so loved THE WORLD.
    God desires that ALL MEN be saved.
    And more...
    Please explain...
     
  13. Nathan

    Nathan Member

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    Lol. I do too. Date with my wife.

    I'll be back on later and will start to explain myself. It will probably spill over into tomorrow to completely do it though. Lol.

    No! I'm not a Calvinist by any stretch of the imagination.
     
  14. Christ_empowered

    Christ_empowered Member

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    Christian:
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    OK...if I remember correctly, we're all born headed for Hell. Total depravity means that, thanks to Adam+Eve, we don't have anything in us that can effectively reach up and out to God.

    Many are called, few are chosen. The Good News is all around a lot of people, but only the elect will respond, and then only because of "irresistible grace." One's election is Unconditional--it has nothing to do with merit (or lack thereof...), and everything to do with God's good pleasure.

    The Elect are those for whom Christ's Crucifixion applies ("Limited Atonement"). Once one of the elect hears The Good News and responds, "Perseverance of the Saints" applies, which means he will keep the faith until death.

    ((Who said PCUSA confirmation class was a waste of time?!?!))
     
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  15. wondering

    wondering Member

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    You're a real calvinist.
    What didn't make sense in your previous post is when you said that God wants everyone to be saved, but He only allows some to have the ability to do so.

    Why would God want everyone to be saved, and then not give everyone the same opportunity to become saved?
     
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  16. Christ_empowered

    Christ_empowered Member

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    LOL. I don't consider myself a Calvinist at this point. I honestly...don't know. My own experience of "getting saved" felt an awful lot like "Irresistible Grace," but I mean...that's a sample of --1-- person, so that's nothing to base a whole outlook on.

    Yeah, my initial post wasn't so great. I just remember reading some RC Sproul or somebody in which he wrote that everybody is called to believe upon Christ...but only the elect are provided with what they need, thru the atonement of Christ and the work of The Holy Spirit, to genuinely repent and be saved. Something like that...
     
  17. JLB

    JLB Member

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    God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
    Romans 2:6-11

    • For there is no partiality with God.

    Jews and Greeks [Gentiles] covers the whole human race.


    The same requirements for all.



    JLB
     
  18. Nathan

    Nathan Member

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    Mr. Sproul does have a Calvinist view. I'm not sure of his entire view, but the day or next one after hearing MacArthur I heard him teaching on it too. That's what sparked this thread. I found MacArthurs quote first so that's what I used.
     
  19. Nathan

    Nathan Member

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    It would be too difficult to try and break things down on my phone tonight, so I'll do it in the morning.

    But the thing to consider is election is equivalent to God choosing. The Bible is clear God chooses us first. He has to draw us to Him because we are spiritually dead, and our heart/mind is not toward God at all - while being an unbeliever. It's hard to understand sometimes because now we who are believers can't imagine not being drawn to God.

    But the Bible is quite clear on it. The doctrine of election is essentially the doctrine of grace. If we were able to come to God on our own then we would have something to boast about.

    God does desire all mankind to come to Him. But He does it in an individual basis. Think of it this way. Jesus "elected"(choose) the twelve disciples. This doesn't mean that they were/are His only disciples. They in turn, through the Spirit, preached the gospel and the chain goes on and on. So now, we are His disciples even though we were not called at the same time the first twelve were.

    Anyways, election is not really hard to understand if you understand Gods purpose. There is actually more information about it, I think, than predestination. Essentially, election is Gods sovereign way of calling people to Himself so He receives all the glory.

    Best way to study it is to start breaking out all the passages that mention it. Tricky part is that sometimes the same word for election is translated chosen.
     
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  20. atpollard

    atpollard Member

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    Jonah.
    You can go to Nineveh the easy way, or the hard way, but you ARE going to Nineveh.
    So was God wrong to bother to give Jonah a command to go to Nineveh and allow him a chance to obey?
    Should God have just started with Jonah being snatched up by a giant bird and dropped at the gate of Nineveh?
     

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