Pregnant woman fired for not marrying fiance

[jasonc]

I know, pretty interesting how that works. Can get married and be arrested for co-habitation under the law.

they don't enforce that and they cant. why Lawrence v texas.

 

[jasonc]

How can it be sinful rebellion when God never commanded it?

god never commanded on to have life insurance and to have a contract to protect ourselves when it fails. if we enter into a marriage with that distrust then don't bother. she or he isn't worthy. I know soldiers that as soon as they went overseas they had separate bank accounts, didn't trust their spouse. I didn't.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I simply will not have fellowship with a couple who has refused to take steps outside of themselves to show their marital commitment to each other. It's screams rebellion and sinful indulgence to me. And rebellion is hardly a work of the Spirit. For me personally, rebellion is one of the most sickening traits about a person. I especially hate it when it worms it's way into the church, and worse, then covers itself in the name of grace. The work of God in a person is exactly the opposite of that.

This subject signifies to me way more about a person than perhaps anything else. In our western cultures there is no godly excuse to not step forward and make an official statement of marital intent and accept the legal and social responsibilities of being married. None. I can't help but to sense some ulterior motive for avoiding that public statement of responsibility--if nothing else, simple laziness. That's why I resist it and can not consider the person who does that a brother/sister that I can feel comfortable fellow-shipping with. Do I hate their guts? Of course not. What it means is my relationship with them will be like I would have with an unbeliever.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You all should see what the ultimate end of this is going to be in the church. Immoral sexual activity will no longer be considered a sin. Anyone who is sleeping with their present partner will simply claim they are 'married' to them. There will be no way to keep the leaven of sinful heterosexual sex out of the church. You might think when they start seeing another person, that will expose the lack of any marital commitment. Well, folks, remember, the church has already accepted non-Biblical divorce, so them leaving their present 'married' sexual partner in favor of another 'married' partner won't mean a thing.

I pity the person who causes another person to stumble because of their own perceived freedom to not be legally married to their sex partner causing them to do the same thing.

 

[ReginaForbes]

Deuteronomy 24:1-22
“When a man takes a wife and marries her, if then she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, and she departs out of his house, and if she goes and becomes another man's wife, and the latter man hates her and writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter man dies, who took her to be his wife, then her former husband, who sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after she has been defiled, for that is an abomination before the Lord. And you shall not bring sin upon the land that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance. “When a man is newly married, he shall not go out with the army or be liable for any other public duty. He shall be free at home one year to be happy with his wife whom he has taken.

 

[ReginaForbes]

It seems like the crux of this whole marriage license argument is "Whom do we obey with regards to marriage?"
Personally, I follow the laws of God outlined in the Bible- one of my resources being "The Bible Law Handbook" which lists everything clearly. However, if one feels that they should be obeying the word of the state gov't, then that is their business. As it says in Romans 14, we Christians are not to judge fellow Christians who are acting in faith. But the bottom line is- WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY?

Romans 14:
The Weak and the Strong
14 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”

12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

 

[Deborah13]

god never commanded on to have life insurance and to have a contract to protect ourselves when it fails. if we enter into a marriage with that distrust then don't bother. she or he isn't worthy. I know soldiers that as soon as they went overseas they had separate bank accounts, didn't trust their spouse. I didn't.

What distrust?

 

[Jesse]

god never commanded on to have life insurance and to have a contract to protect ourselves when it fails. if we enter into a marriage with that distrust then don't bother. she or he isn't worthy. I know soldiers that as soon as they went overseas they had separate bank accounts, didn't trust their spouse. I didn't.

Why would you marry someone you didn't trust?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What I see in 'Christian' anti government doctrine is rebellion. A despising of authority that runs counter to the Spirit-filled life, not in line with it. Render unto Caesar hardly means we are not to render unto Ceaser, but that is how some interpret that. The exact opposite is true. We DO render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.

It sickens me to see more and more of the way the world does things enter into the church. And this is what this amount to. The world loves when the church becomes like them. We remove the distinction the body of Christ has from the world and remove any conviction that the Christian life might develop in the hearts and minds of unbelievers. And out of this lack of conviction they come waltzing into the church only to further propagate the leaven of worldliness that is overtaking us.

Will the church ever stop taking it's cues from what unbelievers do?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It seems like the crux of this whole marriage license argument is "Whom do we obey with regards to marriage?"
Personally, I follow the laws of God outlined in the Bible- one of my resources being "The Bible Law Handbook" which lists everything clearly. However, if one feels that they should be obeying the word of the state gov't, then that is their business. As it says in Romans 14, we Christians are not to judge fellow Christians who are acting in faith. But the bottom line is- WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY?

Romans 14:
The Weak and the Strong
14 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”

12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

You most certainly have the right to do whatever you want. The problem is potentially destroying the work of God by what you approve of. In this case, in our society, it is better to keep quiet about living together without a marriage license to keep other Christians from following in that example.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I've been saying to myself we're going to be having a similar debate about weed in the church in due time. As it becomes legalized I predict there will be Christians who will use the fact that it is now legalized and technically not Biblically forbidden as the rationale for indulging it. Just watch. And it will prove to be a stumbling block to many Christians, not to mention just another step toward our conforming to the world that is happening before our very eyes.

I'm not discounting the possibility that topless Christian women in public will one day be argued too. It's now legal under certain circumstances in the United States, and technically not specifically qualified as sinful in the Bible, oh, and look at the other countries doing that. These are the same rationalizations being used for this argument.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

16 He said to her, "Go,call your husband and come here." 17 The woman answered and said, "I have no husband."Jesus said to her, "You have correctly said, 'I have no husband '; 18 for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly." (John 4:16-18 NASB)

Even Jesus recognized, along with the woman that simply being 'with' someone does not constitute a marriage. He did not correct her and say, "Oh, no. You're married alright".

We see that even Jesus saw that a commitment to a steady relationship does not constitute marriage in and of itself.

 

[Jesse]

I've been saying to myself we're going to be having a similar debate about weed in the church in due time. As it becomes legalized I predict there will be Christians who will use the fact that it is now legalized and technically not Biblically forbidden as the rationale for indulging it. Just watch. And it will prove to be a stumbling block to many Christians, not to mention just another step toward our conforming to the world that is happening before our very eyes.
.

Whoa! I agree!

We can see that alcohol has been widely accepted in social circles and it will be the same for pot. There is a movement called "Cannabis and Christ", saying that marijuana is a plant that God made and he made all of these "natural" plants, so how could we not do what was intended......

There are churches here who, during their men's retreats, have beer brewing classes. Not saying a Christian should abstain from all, but it's a definite way to cause someone else to stumble.

I am also seeing this same thing for the marriage/wedding issue. Although, I really do see that God is the one who marries two people, He is the One who makes 2 flesh as one with Him, not the state nor a license. I can see how this would cause another to stumble and we're not supposed to do that...."and for that reason - I'm out" <for those who watch Shark Tank - haha>. lol

 

[Obadiah]

It seems like the crux of this whole marriage license argument is "Whom do we obey with regards to marriage?"...

That's a big part of it. I personally got a license when I got married but it was just because "that's what everyone does". All those years ago it just wasn't something I had thought through the way some of us are doing here today.

But in reality the license itself meant nothing to me. My commitment to our vows to God and to each other was what I found important and meaningful. I now see there are some who can't understand that and feel a commitment to the secular government is the only thing that matters. I find it sad when a Christian doesn't understand just how serious and binding a vow of marriage made before God is, that they don't see this as marriage at all, seeing only the permission of the government as all powerful. But then no one here has said they can't go ahead and marry that way and put their faith in that secular license if they choose. It certainly is the much easier way to go and makes it much easier to bail out of the marriage by simply making the catch-all accusation of "irreconcilable differences". For some that's the only way to go. For me at the time, I saw no harm in having the license as I knew in my heart Who I served and to Whom I made my vows. The license meant nothing to me at the time. I think today I might have second thoughts about getting one, especially after reading of some people's reasons for refusing to get one. But I don't know. I'm not in that position today and I guess if I ever was again I'd have to pray for guidance at that time. I really don't see that much harm in getting it, I just don't think God needs permission from the government to marry two people.

One thing is for sure, I would never judge, condemn, spread falsities about, and threaten to disfellowship a fellow Christian over a matter of their heart that can only be known by God. I just can't do that as I understand what a commitment or vow before God means and I consider that far more binding than any modern secular document. Besides, I wouldn't even know how to tell if they had a marriage license or not. It's certainly not a question I would ever be rude enough to ask! But there are those who can't understand that kind of vow to God, so they lash out and condemn those who don't do things their way. But on a matter of their heart's commitment to God, since I can't read their hearts as God can, I choose to leave that judgement to God.

 

[ReginaForbes]

What I see in 'Christian' anti government doctrine is rebellion. A despising of authority that runs counter to the Spirit-filled life, not in line with it. Render unto Caesar hardly means we are not to render unto Ceaser, but that is how some interpret that. The exact opposite is true. We DO render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.

It sickens me to see more and more of the way the world does things enter into the church. And this is what this amount to. The world loves when the church becomes like them. We remove the distinction the body of Christ has from the world and remove any conviction that the Christian life might develop in the hearts and minds of unbelievers. And out of this lack of conviction they come waltzing into the church only to further propagate the leaven of worldliness that is overtaking us.

Will the church ever stop taking it's cues from what unbelievers do?

Than what of a gov't that is actively undermining Christianity? According to Acts 5:29 when the authorities instructed the apostles to shut up about Jesus, "Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men."
Now should ALL gov'ts be resisted, of course not, but when a gov't makes one check their conscience at the door, then it is time to peacefully resist. That is what I am doing.
Matthew 6:24 "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

 

[jasonc]

Why would you marry someone you didn't trust?

people do change and also sadly we all don't trust our spouses fully. whatever you think you are over from past hurts , you aren't. any sexual relationship prior to marriage isn't often dealt with properly. I have seen saints repent of sins and thought they were over that pain. they weren't. it affected them until they repented.

 

[jasonc]

What distrust?

soldiers come home, they have 0 dollars and no home to live in. they marry a girl they thought they knew. I have seen that happen a lot. ever hear of dear john letters? the army calls him jody. its in our cadences. jody got your girl, don't worry, Jody got his eyes your on girl...

 

[Jesse]

people do change and also sadly we all don't trust our spouses fully. whatever you think you are over from past hurts , you aren't. any sexual relationship prior to marriage isn't often dealt with properly. I have seen saints repent of sins and thought they were over that pain. they weren't. it affected them until they repented.

In a case where a spouse doesn't trust the other spouse, what would be the purpose for the marriage?
I guess people have different motives for getting married. I just figured it would be mostly because there is mutual love, respect and trust...idk.

 

[Obadiah]

I can understand a young guy heading off to battle wanting to have a feeling of stability and a reason to live, such as the knowledge of his beautiful bride waiting for him to come home. I really can. What I can't comprehend (because it's never happened to me) is how anyone can survive the crushing blow of getting that dear John letter while they are half a world away with no freedom to return and not even knowing if they will live or die soon.

 

[Deborah13]

soldiers come home, they have 0 dollars and no home to live in. they marry a girl they thought they knew. I have seen that happen a lot. ever hear of dear john letters? the army calls him jody. its in our cadences. jody got your girl, don't worry, Jody got his eyes your on girl...

Yes, but what has that got to do with the legality of marriage? Or God's definition of marriage? Or ones commitment to their marriage? I'm just not following you. Sorry.