Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$1,048.00
Goal
$1,038.00

Senior

Member
At the moment you were born-again …
you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!


“For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness,
and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins.
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call
and election sure, for IF you do these things you will never stumble;
for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting
kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” (2 Peter 1:9-11, NKJV)
“OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP


“having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
“FORMER sins” is also in the ESV


“forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
“PAST sins” is also in the HCSB


Now for some confirming NT passages …

Paul wrote this to the Corinthian church concerning his words of rebuke
in 1 Corinthians that he had sent to them concerning some particular sin(s).
They really needed to be sorrowful and repent.


“… the pain (from his rebuke) caused you to repent and change your ways.
It was the kind of sorrow God wants His people to have, so you were not
harmed by us in any way. For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience
leads us away from sin and results in salvation. … worldly sorrow, which lacks
repentance, results in spiritual (eternal) death.” (2 Corinthians 7:8-10, NLT)


“Yes, I am afraid that when I come again, God will humble me in your presence.
And I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins.
You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality,
and eagerness for lustful pleasure.” (2 Corinthians 12:21, NLT)


Peter is warning believers about God’s destruction of all ungodly and unholy people:
“Then he used the water to destroy the ancient (ungodly) world … the day of judgment,
when ungodly people will be destroyed. … He is being patient for your sake. He does not
want anyone to be destroyed (perish spiritually), but (he) wants everyone to repent.
… what holy and godly lives you should live … (you) make every effort to be found living
peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight. … I am warning you ahead of time
… Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors …” (2 Peter 3:6-17, NLT)


John gives the condition for the Lord to forgive believers’ present sins:
“But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).” (1 John 1:9, NLT)
This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all
unrighteousness – from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them
… We must also confess them with our actions … (John) is talking here about repentance
… we must hate our sins and turn from them. This is true repentance.
(The Applied New Testament Commentary; Dr. Thomas Hale)


2 verses later, John reminds believers to ask Jesus to plead our case before the Father:
“My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin.
But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before
the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.” (1 John 2:1, NLT)


Believers are responsible for repenting of their sins after they are born-again!
They have been given the Holy Spirit, a totally new nature, and God’s word.
So, they have been enabled to be victorious overcomers over sin, the world,
and the devil. They have no excuse for failing to do this.
 
At the moment you were born-again …
you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!


“For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness,
and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins.
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call
and election sure, for IF you do these things you will never stumble;
for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting
kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” (2 Peter 1:9-11, NKJV)
“OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP


“having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
“FORMER sins” is also in the ESV


“forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
“PAST sins” is also in the HCSB


Now for some confirming NT passages …

Paul wrote this to the Corinthian church concerning his words of rebuke
in 1 Corinthians that he had sent to them concerning some particular sin(s).
They really needed to be sorrowful and repent.


“… the pain (from his rebuke) caused you to repent and change your ways.
It was the kind of sorrow God wants His people to have, so you were not
harmed by us in any way. For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience
leads us away from sin and results in salvation. … worldly sorrow, which lacks
repentance, results in spiritual (eternal) death.” (2 Corinthians 7:8-10, NLT)


“Yes, I am afraid that when I come again, God will humble me in your presence.
And I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins.
You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality,
and eagerness for lustful pleasure.” (2 Corinthians 12:21, NLT)


Peter is warning believers about God’s destruction of all ungodly and unholy people:
“Then he used the water to destroy the ancient (ungodly) world … the day of judgment,
when ungodly people will be destroyed. … He is being patient for your sake. He does not
want anyone to be destroyed (perish spiritually), but (he) wants everyone to repent.
… what holy and godly lives you should live … (you) make every effort to be found living
peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight. … I am warning you ahead of time
… Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors …” (2 Peter 3:6-17, NLT)


John gives the condition for the Lord to forgive believers’ present sins:
“But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).” (1 John 1:9, NLT)
This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all
unrighteousness – from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them
… We must also confess them with our actions … (John) is talking here about repentance
… we must hate our sins and turn from them. This is true repentance.
(The Applied New Testament Commentary; Dr. Thomas Hale)


2 verses later, John reminds believers to ask Jesus to plead our case before the Father:
“My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin.
But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before
the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.” (1 John 2:1, NLT)


Believers are responsible for repenting of their sins after they are born-again!
They have been given the Holy Spirit, a totally new nature, and God’s word.
So, they have been enabled to be victorious overcomers over sin, the world,
and the devil. They have no excuse for failing to do this.
IF we were forgiven ONLY of our past sins, then the atonement provided by God through Christ and His cross at Calvary means that there are sins in the born of God Christian's life that haven't yet been forgiven, then as it was BEFORE the cross in which the Holy Spirit could only overshadow "prophets, priests, and kings" instead of dwell within them and us. However, the Presence of the Holy Spirit dwelling within us proves that ALL our sins - past, present, and future HAS been atoned and forgiven by God through Christ and His cross.

John 14:17 (KJV)
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Overshadowed before the cross because atonement had not been applied in TIME, and within [you] because forgiveness and atonement has been applied to God's people in TIME.


IF there were any sins that were not atoned by Christ on the cross of which He paid to God a sacrificial death, then those sins would have kept Him in the grave.
 
... the Presence of the Holy Spirit dwelling within us proves that ALL our sins -
past, present, and future HAS been atoned and forgiven by God through Christ and His cross.
Please comment on why 2 Peter 1:9 (in the OP) is in error.

The born-again believer has been blessed with 3 things
that help him/her overcome sin, the world, and the devil:
1) the indwelling Holy Spirit
2) a new nature (a new creation)
3) the word of God
Having these, he/she has no excuse for not satisfy the Father.

I realize that I am repeating myself, but I have found that
many do not fully read and understand what my OPs are saying.
 
Last edited:
Please comment on why 2 Peter 1:9 (in the OP) is in error.

The born-again believer has been blessed with 3 things
that help him/her overcome sin, the world, and the devil:
1) the indwelling Holy Spirit
2) a new nature (a new creation)
3) the word of God
Having these, he/she has no excuse for not satisfy the Father.

I realize that I am repeating myself, but I have found that
many do not fully read and understand what my OPs are saying.
Hello Senior. I apologized for not greeting you as I came onto your thread. I have a tendency of going straight to the 'heart' of any matter.
I have read it again as you asked and here is my reply to your response:

2 Peter 1:9 (KJV)
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
YOU SAID: "Please comment on why 2 Peter 1:9 (in the OP) is in error."
YOU SAID: "At the moment you were born-again …
you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!

“For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness,
and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins.
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call
and election sure, for IF you do these things you will never stumble;
for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting
kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” (2 Peter 1:9-11, NKJV)

“OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP

“having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
“FORMER sins” is also in the ESV

“forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
“PAST sins” is also in the HCSB"

RESPONSE: First, the Scripture is written by God the Holy Spirit and given TO and FOR God's Covenant people ONLY. Peter is writing to believers already saved as you can readily see and read:

2 Peter 1:1 (KJV)
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

You state that only our old sins up to the moment we are born again are forgiven. I disagree because of the Ministry of the Holy Spirit in the world today and the Holy Spirit dwelling within us. Atonement has already been completed.
ALL the sins of God's Elect people, those whose names are written by God in the book of life of the lamb slain from [BEFORE] the foundation (creation) of the world (Rev. 13:8), have had the atonement God had been working towards since He first contemplated us - His Elect - in His Mind BEFORE He created 'heaven,' earth and man (Rev. 13:8) completed. Jesus' words from the cross: "It is finished" is one example of that completion.

I understand your post, but the things Peter is saying to "them that have obtained like precious faith" (and faith comes WITH the Holy Spirit. Men have no faith, and definitely not the Faith the Lord Jesus Christ possessed and the which His Father accepted which was one part of enabling Him to atone for His Covenant people in TIME), but what you are understanding (and I compliment your reading, studying and coming to the knowledge of the truth) is that any sin we commit after we are born again is atoned for by the Lamb of God and it goes more to relationship rather than salvation. The reason why Paul says in Hebrews....

Hebrews 13:8 (KJV)
8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

.....is #1, God and His Christ are Immutable (do not and cannot change), and #2, our salvation spans ALL TIME from the milli, milli, milli, milli-second God created the universe, to the milli, milli-second we return back into Trinity from whence we were first contemplated in the Mind of God. (as a matter of faith I believe God contemplated us, His Elect, as saved, holy, righteous, etc., for there is no sin in God, there is no death in God. That's the ONLY way He can contemplate us.)

But also know that true repentance comes from God. God grants repentance, and if He is not granting repentance to someone who is not named in the book of life of the lamb slain....that person will never become saved, and if God is not granting repentance to a child of God who is already saved, then His reason is for the benefit of His kid(s).

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
 
Last edited:
Please comment on why 2 Peter 1:9 (in the OP) is in error.

Peter wasn’t in error, but he claimed we ARE “cleansed/purified” and are being made “not to stumble” in the future. That’s important too.

And the conclusion of Peter’s point:

For you were going astray like sheep, but you have turned back now to the shepherd and guardian of your souls.
1 Peter 2:25 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Peter 2:25&version=LEB

The Shepherd is either the guardian of our souls or not. To believe He is the guardian of our souls IS to not stumble.

If Peter was right about brothers being purified of old sins (and he is), is he not also right about us being purified and guarded by the Shepherd?

to whom you are drawing near, a living stone rejected by men but chosen and precious in the sight of God. And you yourselves, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s possession, so that you may proclaim the virtues of the one who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light, who once were not a people, but now are the people of God, the ones who were not shown mercy, but now are shown mercy.
1 Peter 2:4-5,9-10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Peter 2:4-5,9-10&version=LEB

Heck, maybe he’s also right and we really are (right now) drawing near, being built up, holy, precious, choosen and now shown mercy.
 
The Shepherd is either the guardian of our souls or not.
To believe He is the guardian of our souls IS to not stumble.
If Peter was right about brothers being purified of old sins (and he is),
is he not also right about us being purified and guarded by the Shepherd?
Yes, He is guarding those BACs who are co-operating with the Holy Spirit
and who are NOT rejecting His promptings.
The churches today are full of BACs who are involved in habitual unrepentant sin,
and who are NOT going to heaven unless they sincerely REPENT.
The Lord is telling His prophets and watchmen today that
pastors are primarily to blame for this and will be held accountable.
The disasters coming upon America are to bring the entire church to its' knees
in repentance so many more will end up being saved (than is the case now).
 
Yes, He is guarding those BACs who are co-operating with the Holy Spirit
and who are NOT rejecting His promptings.
Are you quoting Peter from his letter to these BACs? The reason I ask is that because in Peter’s teaching in this letter BACs are told that we are being guarded by God’s Power (not mentioning our cooperation) and that our inheritance is presently “kept safe” in Heaven for us and that it “cannot perish”. Are you suggesting it can perish and it’s not being kept safe???

God the Father chose you because of what he knew beforehand. He chose you through the Holy Spirit’s work of making you holy and because of the faithful obedience and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. May God’s grace and peace be multiplied to you. May the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ be blessed! On account of his vast mercy, he has given us new birth. You have been born anew into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. You have a pure and enduring inheritance that cannot perish—an inheritance that is presently kept safe in heaven for you. Through his faithfulness, you are guarded by God’s power so that you can receive the salvation he is ready to reveal in the last time.
1 Peter 1:2-5 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Peter 1:2-5&version=CEB

It’s the Holy Spirit’s work to make us Holy. I guess that’s why he calls it pure and enduring and cannot perish, huh???


I always thought Peter claimed BACs were chosen because of Christ’s obedience and His faithfulness.

The churches today are full of BACs who are involved in habitual unrepentant sin,
and who are NOT going to heaven unless they sincerely REPENT.
Are you quoting Peter?

Christ himself suffered on account of sins, once for all, the righteous one on behalf of the unrighteous. He did this in order to bring you into the presence of God. Christ was put to death as a human, but made alive by the Spirit.
1 Peter 3:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Peter 3:18&version=CEB

I thought Peter taught that Jesus suffered once for all sins, not just for the old sins we specifically ask forgiveness of. Humm???

And the reason was so that Christ could be the One (and only One) who brings BACs into the presence of God.
 
You have a pure and enduring inheritance that cannot perish—an inheritance that is presently kept safe in heaven for you. Through his faithfulness, you are guarded by God’s power so that you can receive the salvation he is ready to reveal in the last time.
Christ himself suffered on account of sins, once for all, the righteous one on behalf
of the unrighteous. He did this in order to bring you into the presence of God.
Christ was put to death as a human, but made alive by the Spirit.
I thought Peter taught that Jesus suffered once for all sins,
not just for the old sins we specifically ask forgiveness of.
I always thought this meant once for all people on the earth!

Yes, this is a tough one ... but notice the word "can" instead of "will".
(I do hate to resort to this, however.)
Please NOTE ---- Exactly who is Peter referring to?
Could it be "the faithful" BACs who Paul writes to
in Ephesians (1:1) and in Colossae (1:2)?
Is he also referring to those BACs who have been deceived into OSAS,
and are involved in habitual unrepentant sin? ...
which is extremely prevelant in most of today's American churches.
C'mon, these people are NOT going to heaven unless they sincerely repent.

WHO will they listen to ... the still small voice of the Holy Spirit?
Or the more pushy voice of Satan's demons, and their flesh?

I always thought the "all" referred to all people, not all of their sins.
 
Last edited:
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

It's the Spiritually renewed inner man that is in Christ that will stand in His judgement, but yet for now we still live in a fleshly body that will fall short at times and it is those times when we need to confess our moments of fleshly unrighteousness (sin) so there will be no bad deeds found in us. It's usually the sin of what we allow our mouth to speak that defiles the whole body, James 3:5,6.

We are alive in Christ and raised up with Him and seated with Him in heavenly places (not literally, but Spiritually), Colossians 3:1-4. We are made righteous by that of Gods righteousness that sees us as being perfect before Him. God does not count our sins against us after we believed in Christ and walk not after the flesh, but walk after the Spirit. God is aware that we will mess up at times and is quick to chastise us for correction as a good Father should as when we are disciplined we will remain holy before Him.
Ephesians 2:4-8; Romans 8:1; Hebrews 12:4-13; John 6:37,39.

I am secure in my salvation that Jesus paid the price for all sin as I am now made righteous through that of Gods righteousness and that He can not see any sin in me for I have been forgiven when I confessed Christ as my Lord and Savior and now am of God and no one can snatch me out of His hands, John 10:27-30.

Jesus paid the price for all sin, but all sin is only forgiven in those who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior through that of the Spiritual rebirth, John 3:5-7, by making confession of faith in Him, Romans 10:9, 10. Our Spiritual inner man can no longer sin as we are seen perfect in the eyes of God as we are seated in heavenly places above, Ephesians 2:4-10. Being that we are still housed in this fleshly body the flesh will sin if we allow ourselves to get into the flesh and I am sure we all do at times, but even though we have been forgiven for all sin God will still chastise or another word discipline us as a faithful Father as He corrects us, Hebrews 12:4-13.

Do we keep crucifying Christ for the forgiveness of our sins, God forbid.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
 
I am now made righteous through that of Gods righteousness
Okay, just for example, what do you do with the dozen NT verses that say:
Those who are righteous in God's eyes are those who practice righteousness?
Have you chosen to ignore these dozen verses?
Salvation is a process.
 
There are two perspectives in Scripture.

The first one is from God's Eternal perspective. He has always seen His Elect as holy, righteous, sinless.
The second is the perspective of man in TIME: I am a sinner in need of a Savior.
Make distinction.
I hope this helps.
 
He has always seen His Elect as holy, righteous, sinless.
Recently, I have come to postulate (?) that ...
since the Father saw everything before He created the world (actually, Jesus did),
He chose His elect from out of all the BACs and all the others, everybody.
He saw who loved Him, and the Lord Jesus, enough to obey (keep) Jesus' commandments.
As Jesus said 4 times in John 14.
Then in John 15, Jesus told us who His friends are ... the obedient ones.
Does anyone get to heaven who does not love Jesus?
Does anyone get to heaven who is not His friend?
Thus, does anyone get to heaven who does not obey His commandments?
Kapishe?
 
Last edited:
Yes, this is a tough one
Not sure why it’s tough. Is it because Peter says BACs already have an inheritance that is pure, enduring and that cannot perish?

It’s pretty clear to me and it answers your question about who Peter is writing to and about too.
If it’s because BACs are unrighteous when chosen beforehand, yet chosen to be made holy by the Holy Spirit through the work of Christ. Yes, that’s ‘tough’ to grasp I suppose. But true, none-the-less.
but notice the word "can" instead of "will".
I noticed it in that translation. Technically it’s not there in the literal Text. What’s there is the word:

hétoimos (from heteos, "fitting") – ready because prepared; "standing by," ready to meet the opportunity (challenge) at hand; ready because the necessary preparations are done (or are sure to happen as needed).​

It’s insert there to contrast with what Peter just said about the BACs’ inheritance kept in Heaven; that it cannot perish, cannot fade and cannot be defiled.

Please NOTE ---- Exactly who is Peter referring to?
BACs choosen beforehand by God.

Could it be "the faithful" BACs who Paul writes to
in Ephesians (1:1) and in Colossae (1:2)?
It was addressed to BACs choosen by God. Again my question; are you quoting Peter?

I always thought the "all" referred to all people, not all of their sins.
Peter here said Christ “suffered on account of sins“ not people.
 
Recently, I have come to postulate (?) that ...
since the Father saw everything before He created the world (actually, Jesus did),
He chose His elect from out of all the BACs and all the others, everybody.
He saw who loved Him, and the Lord Jesus, enough to obey (keep) Jesus' commandments.
As Jesus said 4 times in John 14.
Then in John 15, Jesus told us who His friends are ... the obedient ones.
Does anyone get to heaven who does not love Jesus?
Does anyone get to heaven who is not His friend?
Thus, does anyone get to heaven who does not obey His commandments?
Kapishe?
Hi Senior, I think you have it backwards.
ALL men born into the world HATE God. Even His Elect.

John 3:18-20 (KJV)
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light [Christ] is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light [Christ], because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light [Christ], neither cometh to the light [Christ], lest his deeds should be reproved.

Now, Jesus is speaking about the non-Elect for they are and have been condemned already and there is no atonement given to them. They also constitute that group of people called 'the world.'

Before God saves one of His Elect kids He must first bring their minds into submission and He does that. Then, God must 'disarm' them and bring their soul (mind, intellect, senses, conscience, will) into obedience and He does that through His Spirit. When God shows up we become that clay Paul told us about in Romans 9 and the potter goes to work. When God shows up YOU WILL know it.

And I'm glad you mentioned "Then in John 15, Jesus told us who His friends are ... the obedient ones," and "does anyone get to heaven who does not obey His commandments?" because this applies to Judas whom Jesus called "Friend." The other person God called "Friend" was Abraham.
But we don't get to heaven by obeying His Commandments. We get to 'heaven' by having our name in the book of life of the lamb slain...
All God is doing in TIME is preparing bodies to go with those names as He prepared a body for His Christ.


(what are BAC's?)
 
Not sure why it’s tough. Is it because Peter says BACs already have an inheritance that is pure, enduring and that cannot perish?
Yes, because for me it contradicts the 20 or so NT verses which threaten loss of eternal life.
 
Yes, because for me it contradicts the 20 or so NT verses which threaten loss of eternal life.
Senior, there is only one verse that clinches it for me (besides the Presence of the Holy Spirit within me), and that is this Promise:

"I will never leave you nor forsake you."

That's a stop sign. If we are ever in danger of "losing our salvation" then I have to call Jesus a liar.

To date, He's never left me nor forsaken me. Never.
And He never will.
Once a son, ALWAYS a son.
 
Back
Top