Protestants celebrate Reformation Day, 31 Oct

[Jim Parker]

That might work if you believe that the 'First Street Baptist Church' really is a different sect than the '2nd Street Baptist Church'. Personally I am still trying to figure out which is the one true church: The Oriental Orthodox, the Eastern Orthodox or the Roman Catholic churches since they all lay claim to the same title.

Exactly the problem.

 

[jasonc]

I don't think this side of heaven we will have perfect unison.I'm hardly one to say another church isn't His,but some styles of preaching,worship dont work for me.

I couldn't partake in some of the older types of worship style ,buy that's me.

 

[Jim Parker]

Was the roman catholic church ever really the church of God?

Of course. Why would Paul write to them if they were not?
Will the Protestants ever get over their need to dwell on "Whats wrong with them DamnKATH-licks?"
(It's been 500 years. Can we get over it and move on?)
Does the average Reformed Protestant realize how much Roman Catholic doctrine they have incorporated in their teachings?

iakov the fool

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Of course. Why would Paul write to them if they were not?
Will the Protestants ever get over their need to dwell on "Whats wrong with them DamnKATH-licks?"
(It's been 500 years. Can we get over it and move on?)
Does the average Reformed Protestant realize how much Roman Catholic doctrine they have incorporated in their teachings?

iakov the fool

Merry Christmas!

 

[civilwarbuff]

Exactly the problem.

So, IOW, man screwed up Christianity from early on? Then why be surprised that it has ended up where it is......everyone disagreeing with everyone else?

 

[Jim Parker]

I couldn't partake in some of the older types of worship style ,buy that's me.

The original "style" of worship was the liturgy (RC calls it the "Mass").

That the early church had a developed liturgy by the second century is attested to by the statements of Justin Martyr.
Justin Martyr: (AD 100-165) The First Apology of Justin

Chapter LXVII.—Weekly Worship of the Christians.


…… (1) And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and

(2) the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits;

(3) then, when the reader has ceased, the president(1) verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things.

(4) Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended,

(5) bread and wine and water are brought, and the president1 in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and

(6) the people assent, saying Amen;

(7) and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, (the Eucharist) and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons………….


Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples,


(8) He (Jesus) taught them (the apostles & disciples) these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.


Justin described a gathering

(a) of the entire local church,

(b) at a place which would accommodate them,

(c) on Sunday.


He then described the process of the meeting which are easily identified as:
A. the Liturgy of the word

(1) The reading of the Gospels or Prophets

(2) The sermon

(3) The prayers of the people
B. The Liturgy of the Eucharist

(4) The consecration of the bread and wine (by the presider, AKA: "priest")

(5) The “great Amen”

(6) The people receive the Eucharist


The source of this form of liturgy:
Justin stated that it was Jesus who taught this form of worship.
Thus, Justin refuted the modern notion that the "Mass" was a later development.

What Justin describes is the basic format of the liturgy that is followed to this day in all Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, Coptic and Assyrian Churches.
-----------

1. The “president” refers to the presiding presbyter or the overseer. The word “presbyter” or “elder” (presbuteros) has come down to us in modern English as “priest” and the word overseer (episcopos) has come down to us in English as “bishop.”

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

So, IOW, man screwed up Christianity from early on? Then why be surprised that it has ended up where it is......everyone disagreeing with everyone else?

Good question.
Could this be the end times?
Is God telling us only he can straighten things out?
Is Dominionism just another false doctrine?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Will the Protestants ever get over their need to dwell on "Whats wrong with them DamnKATH-licks?"
(It's been 500 years. Can we get over it and move on?)

Probably about the same time that the "DamnKATH-licks" figure out there is a lot of salvation going on outside their buildings.

 

[Jim Parker]

So, IOW, man screwed up Christianity from early on? Then why be surprised that it has ended up where it is......everyone disagreeing with everyone else?

It is not surprising.
It is the outcome of man's fallen nature to be rebelious.

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

Probably about the same time that the "DamnKATH-licks" figure out there is a lot of salvation going on outside their buildings.

That has already happened and is the official position of the RCC since Vatican 2. (1962-66)

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The original "style" of worship was the liturgy (RC calls it the "Mass").

That the early church had a developed liturgy by the second century is attested to by the statements of Justin Martyr.
Justin Martyr: (AD 100-165) The First Apology of Justin

Chapter LXVII.—Weekly Worship of the Christians.


…… (1) And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and

(2) the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits;

(3) then, when the reader has ceased, the president(1) verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things.

(4) Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended,

(5) bread and wine and water are brought, and the president1 in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and

(6) the people assent, saying Amen;

(7) and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, (the Eucharist) and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons………….


Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples,


(8) He (Jesus) taught them (the apostles & disciples) these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.


Justin described a gathering

(a) of the entire local church,

(b) at a place which would accommodate them,

(c) on Sunday.


He then described the process of the meeting which are easily identified as:
A. the Liturgy of the word

(1) The reading of the Gospels or Prophets

(2) The sermon

(3) The prayers of the people
B. The Liturgy of the Eucharist

(4) The consecration of the bread and wine (by the presider, AKA: "priest")

(5) The “great Amen”

(6) The people receive the Eucharist


The source of this form of liturgy:
Justin stated that it was Jesus who taught this form of worship.
Thus, Justin refuted the modern notion that the "Mass" was a later development.

What Justin describes is the basic format of the liturgy that is followed to this day in all Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, Coptic and Assyrian Churches.
-----------

1. The “president” refers to the presiding presbyter or the overseer. The word “presbyter” or “elder” (presbuteros) has come down to us in modern English as “priest” and the word overseer (episcopos) has come down to us in English as “bishop.”

No one can debate you on this since it is illegal on this forum to discuss catholicism.
You know that yet you express your beliefs on the matter anyway.

 

[jasonc]

The original "style" of worship was the liturgy (RC calls it the "Mass").

That the early church had a developed liturgy by the second century is attested to by the statements of Justin Martyr.
Justin Martyr: (AD 100-165) The First Apology of Justin

Chapter LXVII.—Weekly Worship of the Christians.


…… (1) And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and

(2) the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits;

(3) then, when the reader has ceased, the president(1) verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things.

(4) Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended,

(5) bread and wine and water are brought, and the president1 in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and

(6) the people assent, saying Amen;

(7) and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, (the Eucharist) and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons………….


Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples,


(8) He (Jesus) taught them (the apostles & disciples) these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.


Justin described a gathering

(a) of the entire local church,

(b) at a place which would accommodate them,

(c) on Sunday.


He then described the process of the meeting which are easily identified as:
A. the Liturgy of the word

(1) The reading of the Gospels or Prophets

(2) The sermon

(3) The prayers of the people
B. The Liturgy of the Eucharist

(4) The consecration of the bread and wine (by the presider, AKA: "priest")

(5) The “great Amen”

(6) The people receive the Eucharist


The source of this form of liturgy:
Justin stated that it was Jesus who taught this form of worship.
Thus, Justin refuted the modern notion that the "Mass" was a later development.

What Justin describes is the basic format of the liturgy that is followed to this day in all Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, Coptic and Assyrian Churches.
-----------

1. The “president” refers to the presiding presbyter or the overseer. The word “presbyter” or “elder” (presbuteros) has come down to us in modern English as “priest” and the word overseer (episcopos) has come down to us in English as “bishop.”

I have attended mass,that's not what I was talking about as I have attended more protestant churches.

The mass of the rcc is also too robotic for me. I understand traditions but it's not my style. Funny the charismatic catholics are nowhere near like that.

I have attended their service and mass here . A 100 year old catholic church.one of three I have attended mass,but this property is sufficient to serve the entire county ,yet visit the other two of the same parish under it ,all under the archdiocese of west palm.you will find spanish speaking only in fellsmere,the exclusive rich on the beach,and the very different ,almost anti papal of the west county one.the sebestian one I haven't been to in a while.this church in the photo is the parent of them all,and most open.

 

[jasonc]

Btw my.mom,uncle and aunt and her grandfather, mother were catholics. My earliest memories of church are at that parish.

 

[jasonc]

I have attended mass,that's not what I was talking about as I have attended more protestant churches.

The mass of the rcc is also too robotic for me. I understand traditions but it's not my style. Funny the charismatic catholics are nowhere near like that.

I have attended their service and mass here . A 100 year old catholic church.one of three I have attended mass,but this property is sufficient to serve the entire county ,yet visit the other two of the same parish under it ,all under the archdiocese of west palm.you will find spanish speaking only in fellsmere,the exclusive rich on the beach,and the very different ,almost anti papal of the west county one.the sebestian one I haven't been to in a while.this church in the photo is the parent of them all,and most open.

The current church i attend also conducts communion every service. Some protestants recite the apostle and nicean creeds.my current one did the later once.

 

[civilwarbuff]

That has already happened and is the official position of the RCC since Vatican 2. (1962-66)

Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus
Except V2 did not repudiate this but simply tried to put a more acceptable spin on it......

 

[Jim Parker]

No one can debate you on this since it is illegal on this forum to discuss catholicism.
You know that yet you express your beliefs on the matter anyway.

Justin Martyr has absolutely NOTHING to say about RC doctrine.
The early church's form of worship is not what is today called "Roman Catholicism." It was the practice of the Church BEFORE there were any division and way before there was any entity called the "Roman Catholic Church."
There wasn't an actual RCC until the 11th century. Justin wrote at the beginning of the early 2nd century.
So, if you have information about the worship in the very early church contrary to what I have posted, you should be free to post it since it would be from before any thing called the RCC existed.

iakov the fool

 

[jasonc]

Justin Martyr has absolutely NOTHING to say about RC doctrine.
The early church's form of worship is not what is today called "Roman Catholicism." It was the practice of the Church BEFORE there were any division and way before there was any entity called the "Roman Catholic Church."
There wasn't an actual RCC until the 11th century. Justin wrote at the beginning of the early 2nd century.
So, if you have information about the worship in the very early church contrary to what I have posted, you should be free to post it since it would be from before any thing called the RCC existed.

iakov the fool

Martyr uses the word catholic, which means universal. The methodist, anglican,and church of god,of TN also use that term.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Justin Martyr has absolutely NOTHING to say about RC doctrine.
The early church's form of worship is not what is today called "Roman Catholicism." It was the practice of the Church BEFORE there were any division and way before there was any entity called the "Roman Catholic Church."
There wasn't an actual RCC until the 11th century. Justin wrote at the beginning of the early 2nd century.
So, if you have information about the worship in the very early church contrary to what I have posted, you should be free to post it since it would be from before any thing called the RCC existed.

iakov the fool

Even that is illegal on this forum to be debated as it involves your opinion about roman catholicism.

 

[Jim Parker]

Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus
Except V2 did not repudiate this but simply tried to put a more acceptable spin on it......

They said that there was salvation outside the RCC.

 

[Jim Parker]

Even that is illegal on this forum to be debated as it involves your opinion about roman catholicism.

Historic fact is not anyone's "opinion."
It is an historic FACT that no such entity as the "Roman Catholic Church" existed in the 2nd century.
Since it did not exist at that time, no doctrine of the Church from that time can possibly be "RC." (Church or cola)