Hi everyone, and Greetings. I wanted to start my own rapture thread because I've been studying scripture and asking questions this week in regards to subject. I believe I can prove pre-trib rapture is false using simple techniques and clear revelation that scripture is giving us. Right now on 6/3/14 at 9pm, it would not be biblical to say the rapture is imminent because certain prophecy needs to be fulfilled before rapture occurs. Prophecy such as Isaiah 17, Psalm 83, Ezekiel 38-39 and the Antichrist signing the peace treaty at the middle of the seven year great tribulation. Certain events need to fall into place before we can even consider the rapture as being imminent. (imminent is occurring at any moment) The rapture is not going to occur at any moment, and I am sorry to have burst your bubble but it is what it is. Here are a few passages that I think we need to consider...
Matt 24 screams out "END TIMES". A few of the titles of Matt 24 are Signs of the Close of the Age, The Abomination of Desolation, The Coming of the Son of Man and No One Knows That Day and Hour. In Matt 24 I would like to pay close attention especially to the title Abomination of Desolation and the The Coming of the Son of Man in my final conclusion.
Matt 24:15 - The Abomination of Desolation
15 "So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
Daniel 9:27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."
Rev 20:4-6 - The Thousand Years
4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
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1 Thess 4:13-18 - The Coming of the Lord
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
1 Cor 15:50-54 - Mystery and Victory
50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
Matt 24 29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Final Conclusion: By using these scriptures it is evident that pre-trib rapture is false. From Daniel 9:27 we already know that the Antichrist will put an end to sacrifice and offering and set up the abomination of desolation 3.5 years into the seven year great tribulation. Now, Rev 20:4 describes the Antichrist, Rev 20:5 the first resurrection describes the rapture. Rev 20:6 describes (us the church/who share).
If that isn't enough evidence, then let's proceed further. Why would Matt 24 include the Signs of the Close of the Age, The Abomination of Desolation, The Coming of the Son of Man and No One Knows That Day and Hour all in one chapter. All these titles describe one thing, the seven year great tribulation that is to come. If pre-trib rapture were true then why include The Abomination of Desolation in the same chapter as the coming of Christ? Makes sense right?
If that isn't enough evidence, then let's go further into the mystery. Since we know now that the first resurrection occurs during or after the Antichrist sets up his evil temple, we also know that 1 Thess 4:13-18 and Matt 24:29-31 are also referring to the first resurrection/rapture, as they both mention the Lord coming down on the clouds of heaven. Furthermore, 1 Thess 4:13-18, 1 Cor 15:50-54 and Matt 24:29-31 all mention (trumpet calls). It doesn't really take an advanced mathematician to figure it all out. Pre-trib rapture is not biblical, which leads to my final question...
Who here thinks that they will witness the seven year great tribulation in our lifetime. I myself do not know what to believe. Between the four blood moons, the decay of society, false prophets and Psalm 83 coming into play in 2014 everything is up for question. I also wanted to thank you guys for the warm welcome to the forum, thank you. - Blessings, DRS81.
Matt 24 screams out "END TIMES". A few of the titles of Matt 24 are Signs of the Close of the Age, The Abomination of Desolation, The Coming of the Son of Man and No One Knows That Day and Hour. In Matt 24 I would like to pay close attention especially to the title Abomination of Desolation and the The Coming of the Son of Man in my final conclusion.
Matt 24:15 - The Abomination of Desolation
15 "So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
Daniel 9:27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."
Rev 20:4-6 - The Thousand Years
4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
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1 Thess 4:13-18 - The Coming of the Lord
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
1 Cor 15:50-54 - Mystery and Victory
50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
Matt 24 29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Final Conclusion: By using these scriptures it is evident that pre-trib rapture is false. From Daniel 9:27 we already know that the Antichrist will put an end to sacrifice and offering and set up the abomination of desolation 3.5 years into the seven year great tribulation. Now, Rev 20:4 describes the Antichrist, Rev 20:5 the first resurrection describes the rapture. Rev 20:6 describes (us the church/who share).
If that isn't enough evidence, then let's proceed further. Why would Matt 24 include the Signs of the Close of the Age, The Abomination of Desolation, The Coming of the Son of Man and No One Knows That Day and Hour all in one chapter. All these titles describe one thing, the seven year great tribulation that is to come. If pre-trib rapture were true then why include The Abomination of Desolation in the same chapter as the coming of Christ? Makes sense right?
If that isn't enough evidence, then let's go further into the mystery. Since we know now that the first resurrection occurs during or after the Antichrist sets up his evil temple, we also know that 1 Thess 4:13-18 and Matt 24:29-31 are also referring to the first resurrection/rapture, as they both mention the Lord coming down on the clouds of heaven. Furthermore, 1 Thess 4:13-18, 1 Cor 15:50-54 and Matt 24:29-31 all mention (trumpet calls). It doesn't really take an advanced mathematician to figure it all out. Pre-trib rapture is not biblical, which leads to my final question...
Who here thinks that they will witness the seven year great tribulation in our lifetime. I myself do not know what to believe. Between the four blood moons, the decay of society, false prophets and Psalm 83 coming into play in 2014 everything is up for question. I also wanted to thank you guys for the warm welcome to the forum, thank you. - Blessings, DRS81.
