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psych meds for Christians

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#61
Stuff like anxiety disorders can also come with extra stuff, like sensory overload. Which is where one or more of the senses can overload resulting in unpleasant things. In the case of anxiety disorders that can mean that things that are too bright or too loud can cause panic attacks because it overloads their senses. (Though it doesn't necessarily manifest the same for everyone.) Sensory overload is also present, to a more severe degree, in things like autism. Some mental illnesses can also come with something called executive dysfunction-- something that is also present to a more severe degree in autism.

Mental illness, particularly the ones that have less stigma attached, isn't simply "I feel sad sometimes", "I feel scared sometimes", or "I need things to be in a certain order". Each one comes with a cluster of symptoms that make up the diagnosis and problems. (Though stuff like sensory overload isn't part of the anxiety diagnosis, I don't think. But it is common in people with anxiety.)
You do not have to agree with what I am about to type.

You have a pretty good grip on understanding the senses.
What you basically described, I tend to think is part of the tree of good and evil. When we let anxiety become a dominate force (through our senses) we suffer. Eve was tempted through her senses. Flesh area.

Jesus faced crucifiction (anxiety possible). Only through prayer and endorphin release (?) could he do the will of the Father, and endure the pain.

The law in our mind is our best chance. I do not think it is us that wins, but Christ in us.

Anxiety has caused me back pain (and other issues). By grace it got better. The law in our flesh admits anxiety. To stop the dominion of anxiety is our goal. At the last trump the final victory over anxiety will come. Till the judgement we encourage the weak and strong.

eddif
 
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#62
I appreciate the care and respect shown in this discussion. I cringed when I saw it, because I feared the inevitable condemnation that this topic usually draws from believers who have actually never dealt with depression, anxiety, etc. I haven't, but people whom I love have. People who deal with any of these very real conditions don't need guilt heaped upon them by people who aren't in position to judge them for it. :hug
AMEN to that!

That's like blaming a person for having the flu.
I'm also very happy because if there's one thing Sick people need, it's understanding and encouragement, not condemnation.

And depressed people Are Sick.
They need a pill,,,like any sick person does.
 
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#63
Healing, is the return of health, be it physical, emotional, mental, or spiritual.
Another word for healing, is restoration.
The lost is found, the broken is mended, the missing is discovered, the impossible is solved to the good.
Regarding a mental illness....
Anxiety is the problem, along with stress.....so at least Freud got that part right.
These 2 things, are the enemy of us all.
The issue is, life is difficult, and many difficulties in life that find us, are unexpected, and this so increases their severity of the impact upon us.
The root of anxiety and stress, typically, is a "coping" issue.
One of the main symptoms of a coping issue is avoidance. , because you feel that you cant deal with it.
Its an odd thing that the Christmas season, is the one time of year that for many is the worst time of the year.
Often, with a coping issue....there is this is a feeling of..."things will never be right"....and a deep sense of dread.
Dreading tomorrow.
Dreading what is next.
Dread.
I think that many people who are just not coping well, live within a constant sense of dread.
And that is a very harsh place to exist.
So, what to do?
Well, im not really a fan of the (secular) psychological sciences, as these people have created a sub-class of humanity = transgender.
They , the Shrinks, are exactly 100% responsible for this madness...this human atrocity.
They, the Shrinks have actually, by perpetrating this mental illness as "normal for the person", have created a cultural fiasco that is only just begun.
And these SHRINKS are the very same who will hand out "cope meds" by the bucketful, to any and all, knowing that a person is going to cling to these meds and become one of the "chemical people" who can't exist without them.

But, on the other hand...

A season of medicated serenity, in some cases, is without a doubt, a healing process.
Sometimes you need to get off the rat race and just take it .......SLOW....for a while.
But eventually, you have to get going, and its difficult to sprint when all your meds keep you in a harness.
But in the end, the same issue that drove a person to the cope medicine, has remained unresolved, and in most cases, will be worse as problems never shrink, when left to wait.
Waiting, in general, waters a problem and feeds it.
The fact is, in life, you can "wait on the Lord to renew your strength", and in fact, its this very waiting that is going to actually grow an issue into such a mountain that it will be nearly impossible to climb, as time given to a problem, as i said, generally only waters it and makes it worse.
Its a difficult thing to come out of the chemical cloud and realize that the problem that drove you there is now a mountain that is waiting for you to climb.
It is also a fact that "casting your care upon the Lord", is truth, and sometimes that is the only answer.
But sometimes, its not.

The good news, is that we have Jesus to help us with all out mountains and all our mistakes.
He IS restoration and the Lord of the 2nd chance, and the 100th second chance.
With Jesus, there is restoration and more opportunity, always.
always.
always.
always.
always.
He never gives up on us, and He is always available.
God, delights in making wrongs, right.
A miracle, is really just God realigning a wrong circumstance into the right circumstance, within the natural realm, as only GOD can do it.

-
-
-
 
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questdriven

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#64
Mental illnesses are difficult to understand because they involve emotions everyone has, and to most people those emotions may make things difficult at times but are not debilitating.
I'm a nervous, shy, fairly anxious person--I find it difficult to talk to people or stand up for myself and I need to work on having more confidence in my actions. But I don't have an anxiety disorder. I have a few things in common with my friends who do, since I am shy, but it doesn't affect my life to the extent it does their's.
I may not want to, but I can go to the store without needing someone to go with me to prevent a panic attack from happening or to help me in the event that I get verbal paralysis-- because I don't experience those things, I'm just a little nervous around people. My friends who have anxiety disorders do get those things and do need someone to be with them in public.
That said, "anxiety disorder" is a broad category. There are different ones. PTSD is considered an anxiety disorder.

Some illnesses cannot be simply cured, only managed. There are healthy coping mechanisms you can learn, there are lifestyle changes that can help (diet, exercise, natural light, etc), there are things you can do that will make it easier and make it less severe. There have been tips like these, given by people who live with these conditions or have studied those fields. They're not cures, but they can help, and sometimes a lot. Often these are in addition to medication.
 
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#65
here's the thing: the antipsychiatry people fall in and out of favor, but they make some valid points. The psych drugs don't "fix" anything. They change brain chemistry, which alters mood and (hopefully...) behavior.

I say this as someone who has been given heavy-handed "shock treatment," labeled w/ everything in the book, and I now live on disability (thankfully, I have "genteel" parents who "take good care of" me...): psychiatry -does- create victims. I'm not gung-ho about antipsychiatry, but...I do think psychiatry needs to be restrained, critiqued, analyzed, even dissected, now and then. One cannot take all this talk of "mental illness=brain disease=lifelong treatment" w/o doing some analysis and research. And --yet-- ...

...I'm on 3 psych drugs. My quality of life is far, far better on this lil combo than it was not on meds. I also take tons of vitamins, mostly to help me tolerate the "atypical" tranquilizer (seems to help, btw, but I highly doubt it could treat anything by itself...). I'm receiving quality care now. No forced treatment, no hospitalization, no more shock, no controlled substances. Of course...my upwardly mobile parents "have arrived," and we've reconciled in a big, big way. How much of this quality treatment is just because of my parents' social standing? I honestly do not know.

But...yeah...I've made my peace with probably having to take an 'atypical' tranquilizer and a mood drug indefinitely. It is what it is. Still, I think the evidence is there that, even w/ severe problems, some people actually do better w/o "standard treatment." There are many roads to madness, and I highly doubt there's a one size fits all miracle cure for severe mental problems. I'm blessed in that the 'atypical' tranquilizer, in particular, helps considerably, and now I benefit from counseling and can pursue some of my goals. That's a -huge- blessin, all by itself. There are people out there who would rather be psychotic than be on the tranquilizers, because that's how rough that entire class of drugs can be on some people/"patients".

I think the reason I asked this...well...I have my friend+spiritual mentor, Verna. She's old school, southern, Pentecostal. Not a big fan of shrinks, in large part because she had a part-time job in a psych word for a year or so, and the screams from the shock patients got to her, really quickly. Some things never change. And yet...

...some people have problems, and of those people who have problems, some do respond favorably to modern pharmaceuticals. As I wrote above, I'm blessed to be one of the "patients" who respond well to fairly "standard treatment."

But then I think of the people I've seen with tardive dyskinesia (facial movements, tics, etc. from long-term antipsychotic treatment), just in the waiting area of the clinic I go to. And I think about the affluent, "Bipolar I" people I knew when I was younger, and how their shrinks coddled them, catered to them, even though I have my doubts about their Bipolarity ((long story...)), and if it wasn't for their well-heeled families...they'd just be yet another "mental patient," etc.

On and on it goes. If you (or your family) have sufficient status, resources, etc., you get compassion. When my parents were middle-class and I did too many drugs, I was a "narcissistic junkie." Now, they're more upper class, we've reconciled, and I'm now labeled "severe Bipolar I, used prescription amphetamines and sedatives to self-medicate symptoms." Who is telling the truth? Which version of events is most accurate?

Sorry to ramble, LOL. This is just...something I deal with, daily. I cannot complain about being "severely mentally ill," especially since I now live in safety and comfort, I'm healthy, new personality, high(er) IQ, etc. God is good!

But...before The Lord moved in my life, I was a burned out, wretched, weakling, and a lot of it was because of Mental Health, Inc. Now, I have a different counselor, different doctors, different labels/diagnoses, and I think: what of their other victims?

If you made it this far...thanks for reading. :)
 
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#66
There is a large range in the amount of anxiety hormones produced during similar activities. At the low range, people will often take up risky hobbies like rock climbing or parachute jumping. Its the only time their bodies produce enough cortisol and such to be comfortable. At the upper range, people have comfortable levels only when they are sitting at home in their easy chair. Just driving to the grocery store can drive stress hormones to unpleasant levels. In the middle range, people experience comfortable levels during normal daily activity. Sometimes hormones can be normalized through surgery or meds. Sometimes its just genetics that docs don't know how to treat.

Of course, what is impossible for man is possible for God.
 
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#67
Healing, is the return of health, be it physical, emotional, mental, or spiritual.
Another word for healing, is restoration.
The lost is found, the broken is mended, the missing is discovered, the impossible is solved to the good.
Regarding a mental illness....
Anxiety is the problem, along with stress.....so at least Freud got that part right.
These 2 things, are the enemy of us all.
The issue is, life is difficult, and many difficulties in life that find us, are unexpected, and this so increases their severity of the impact upon us.
The root of anxiety and stress, typically, is a "coping" issue.
One of the main symptoms of a coping issue is avoidance. , because you feel that you cant deal with it.
Its an odd thing that the Christmas season, is the one time of year that for many is the worst time of the year.
Often, with a coping issue....there is this is a feeling of..."things will never be right"....and a deep sense of dread.
Dreading tomorrow.
Dreading what is next.
Dread.
I think that many people who are just not coping well, live within a constant sense of dread.
And that is a very harsh place to exist.
So, what to do?
Well, im not really a fan of the (secular) psychological sciences, as these people have created a sub-class of humanity = transgender.
They , the Shrinks, are exactly 100% responsible for this madness...this human atrocity.
They, the Shrinks have actually, by perpetrating this mental illness as "normal for the person", have created a cultural fiasco that is only just begun.
And these SHRINKS are the very same who will hand out "cope meds" by the bucketful, to any and all, knowing that a person is going to cling to these meds and become one of the "chemical people" who can't exist without them.

But, on the other hand...

A season of medicated serenity, in some cases, is without a doubt, a healing process.
Sometimes you need to get off the rat race and just take it .......SLOW....for a while.
But eventually, you have to get going, and its difficult to sprint when all your meds keep you in a harness.
But in the end, the same issue that drove a person to the cope medicine, has remained unresolved, and in most cases, will be worse as problems never shrink, when left to wait.
Waiting, in general, waters a problem and feeds it.
The fact is, in life, you can "wait on the Lord to renew your strength", and in fact, its this very waiting that is going to actually grow an issue into such a mountain that it will be nearly impossible to climb, as time given to a problem, as i said, generally only waters it and makes it worse.
Its a difficult thing to come out of the chemical cloud and realize that the problem that drove you there is now a mountain that is waiting for you to climb.
It is also a fact that "casting your care upon the Lord", is truth, and sometimes that is the only answer.
But sometimes, its not.

The good news, is that we have Jesus to help us with all out mountains and all our mistakes.
He IS restoration and the Lord of the 2nd chance, and the 100th second chance.
With Jesus, there is restoration and more opportunity, always.
always.
always.
always.
always.
He never gives up on us, and He is always available.
God, delights in making wrongs, right.
A miracle, is really just God realigning a wrong circumstance into the right circumstance, within the natural realm, as only GOD can do it.

-
-
-
You should have been a poet.

Beautiful song and video
 
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#68
here's the thing: the antipsychiatry people fall in and out of favor, but they make some valid points. The psych drugs don't "fix" anything. They change brain chemistry, which alters mood and (hopefully...) behavior.

I say this as someone who has been given heavy-handed "shock treatment," labeled w/ everything in the book, and I now live on disability (thankfully, I have "genteel" parents who "take good care of" me...): psychiatry -does- create victims. I'm not gung-ho about antipsychiatry, but...I do think psychiatry needs to be restrained, critiqued, analyzed, even dissected, now and then. One cannot take all this talk of "mental illness=brain disease=lifelong treatment" w/o doing some analysis and research. And --yet-- ...

...I'm on 3 psych drugs. My quality of life is far, far better on this lil combo than it was not on meds. I also take tons of vitamins, mostly to help me tolerate the "atypical" tranquilizer (seems to help, btw, but I highly doubt it could treat anything by itself...). I'm receiving quality care now. No forced treatment, no hospitalization, no more shock, no controlled substances. Of course...my upwardly mobile parents "have arrived," and we've reconciled in a big, big way. How much of this quality treatment is just because of my parents' social standing? I honestly do not know.

But...yeah...I've made my peace with probably having to take an 'atypical' tranquilizer and a mood drug indefinitely. It is what it is. Still, I think the evidence is there that, even w/ severe problems, some people actually do better w/o "standard treatment." There are many roads to madness, and I highly doubt there's a one size fits all miracle cure for severe mental problems. I'm blessed in that the 'atypical' tranquilizer, in particular, helps considerably, and now I benefit from counseling and can pursue some of my goals. That's a -huge- blessin, all by itself. There are people out there who would rather be psychotic than be on the tranquilizers, because that's how rough that entire class of drugs can be on some people/"patients".

I think the reason I asked this...well...I have my friend+spiritual mentor, Verna. She's old school, southern, Pentecostal. Not a big fan of shrinks, in large part because she had a part-time job in a psych word for a year or so, and the screams from the shock patients got to her, really quickly. Some things never change. And yet...

...some people have problems, and of those people who have problems, some do respond favorably to modern pharmaceuticals. As I wrote above, I'm blessed to be one of the "patients" who respond well to fairly "standard treatment."

But then I think of the people I've seen with tardive dyskinesia (facial movements, tics, etc. from long-term antipsychotic treatment), just in the waiting area of the clinic I go to. And I think about the affluent, "Bipolar I" people I knew when I was younger, and how their shrinks coddled them, catered to them, even though I have my doubts about their Bipolarity ((long story...)), and if it wasn't for their well-heeled families...they'd just be yet another "mental patient," etc.

On and on it goes. If you (or your family) have sufficient status, resources, etc., you get compassion. When my parents were middle-class and I did too many drugs, I was a "narcissistic junkie." Now, they're more upper class, we've reconciled, and I'm now labeled "severe Bipolar I, used prescription amphetamines and sedatives to self-medicate symptoms." Who is telling the truth? Which version of events is most accurate?

Sorry to ramble, LOL. This is just...something I deal with, daily. I cannot complain about being "severely mentally ill," especially since I now live in safety and comfort, I'm healthy, new personality, high(er) IQ, etc. God is good!

But...before The Lord moved in my life, I was a burned out, wretched, weakling, and a lot of it was because of Mental Health, Inc. Now, I have a different counselor, different doctors, different labels/diagnoses, and I think: what of their other victims?

If you made it this far...thanks for reading. :)
Ecclesiastes 2:12 KJV
And I turned myself to behold wisdom, and madness, and folly: for what can the man do that cometh after the king? even that which hath been already done.
13 Then I saw that wisdom excelleth folly, as far as light excelleth darkness.
14 The wise man's eyes are in his head; but the fool walketh in darkness: and I myself perceived also that one event happeneth to them all.
15 Then said I in my heart, As it happeneth to the fool, so it happeneth even to me; and why was I then more wise? Then I said in my heart, that this also is vanity.

Since Solomon:
The law is in our hearts
The law is in our minds

eddif
 
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#69
I have found that when I seek the face of God and get into his presence all the anxiety from my problems go away. It doesn't mean that there aren't any problems that still need to be dealt with, but the significance of them seems to pale when I focus on who my God is rather than what my problem is. I do understand there is a place for modern medicine, but I definetly feel it is much abused!
 
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#70
I have found that when I seek the face of God and get into his presence all the anxiety from my problems go away. It doesn't mean that there aren't any problems that still need to be dealt with, but the significance of them seems to pale when I focus on who my God is rather than what my problem is. I do understand there is a place for modern medicine, but I definetly feel it is much abused!
What if it goes away,
and then it comes back?
 
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#71
It for sure comes back, but if you can truly stay focused on who your God is, the creator of the universe and not focused on the problem, a lot of people who are on medications wouldn't need to be. Im not saying that medications are bad and that people shouldn't take them, I just think a lot of times they are used as a crutch.
 

JohnDB

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#72
I've always considered the field of mental health kinda "iffy" at best.

The brain is a very complicated organ. Hard to figure out what is wrong other than the symptoms.

When having a mental health problem you then have to choose a doctor? Making a good choice when you have no ability to do so?

Then there are the doctor's...who went into the field because they were trying to sort out their own mental health issues...these are the ones who help the sick? Blind leading the blind comes to mind.

Considering that the mental health field is needed more than ever than before these days some major oversight is needed.
 
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#73
Hi PZ
I also have tried natural remedies.
For instance, John's Wort is for depression.
For me it didn't work.
We also tried natural ingredients for my granddaughter (autism) who has problems caused by it.
Unfortunately, those didn't work either...so we gave up on that.

We have to do what we have to do.

Sounds like you're on a good regime for loosing weight.
If it works...write a book !
wondering,

Zoloft is working for me and I don't consider it unspiritual to use it.

However, I know that the non-biological dimension of depression and anxiety can be related to our thinking about matters affecting us and CBT therapy can be helpful.

There have been enlightening clinical trials of a combination of anti-depressants and CBT therapy vs anti-depressants only.

Oz
 
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#74
my (very) rudimentary understanding is that the psych drugs work best for -severe- problems. agitated depression, psychotic depression, etc. mild to moderate problems....non-drug approaches may be safer, less expensive, etc.


I will say that psychiatrists are an interesting bunch. Go to 3 shrinks, get 5 opinions, not playing. Very few are Christian. Even the Christian shrinks seem to have their own sort of Christianity. Based on the few Christian shrinks I've dealt with, it seems to be either hyper-conservative Christianity or the more modern, "seeker friendly," mega-church approach. Ugh.

I just...don't know. The drugs don't "fix" anything. They -create- a different brain state thru artificial means. Sometimes this helps, sometimes its terrible, often...somewhere in between. I'm stuck on an "atypical" tranquilizer. On the one hand, it beats the old drugs. On the other hand, antipsychotics, in particular, carry serious long-term risks. They call it "medicine," but tranquilizers....tranquilize. That's what they do. They're used in Bipolar, Schizophrenia, and also to make people "more manageable" (personality disorders, jail and prison inmates, etc.). Again; I don't know what to make of it.

I don't know that talk therapy is necessarily better than drugs. The counselor/counselee relationship is imbalanced and subject to abuse, especially by the person in power. Plus, it is kind of strange, to think about it...what is this "expert" saying, in 1 hour sessions, that's so amazing that insurance is paying them top dollar? Anybody can make conversation, right? At least the shrinks can justify their fees because they prescribe drugs and (hopefully...) monitor for adverse effects, overall progress, etc.

I don't know. I've clearly been burned by Mental Health, Inc. I had a counselor who wanted me on a tranquilizer, I refused. When I was put in a hospital, they went out of their way to "break" me, make me "more manageable," etc. They also over-billed the insurance and almost let me die of a sleeping pill overdose. Not playing...I was left soaked in my own urine, in a private, for--profit hospital. They said I was hurting myself "to get attention," and that I needed to be "punished," etc.

I just...don't know. These days, I'm treated better, but then again...my parents are now more "well-to-do," we've reconciled, they're taking care of me, etc. Plus, legal stuff came up, and my parents got me a good lawyer, so...yeah. There's that, too.

OK. I think Mike commented on how civil this discussion has been, and it really is incredible...we all seem able to share our thoughts without getting angry and snarky, etc.
 
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#75
GBT God behavior therapy
Philippians 2:13 KJV
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure

Or
You can do it the old covenant way:
II Chronicles 7:14 KJV
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

One way is by grace and the other by works.

Inside us is endorphin release to block pain ( sometimes from anxiety)
Energy from the Word can be released from the table of shew bread.

Do I always get the God given systems to work. No.

Leaves are for the healing of the nations. Melissa / lemon balm.

This is the SAD season. Walk in sunlight and Son Light.

Seasonal affective disorder will be at its peak December 21

Spring is on the way.

eddif
 

Papa Zoom

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#76
What if it goes away,
and then it comes back?
I do both. I seek God and medical advice. I think if I asked God and He was sitting right here, He'd tell me, "Go to the doctor!"

I saw a Christian counselor for years. And he got me in touch with a psychiatrist (she's a Buddhist). I just saw her last week. My insurance doesn't cover any longer so I just pay whatever is the fee. I see her twice a year. I went off my depression meds and she thinks I should stay off. If I have more problems, we'll decide then. In the meantime, I have pills for the panic attacks. I usually get thirty pills and by the time they expire, I have only used a few. I just use them when it's obvious I need them. Like a long stint in the dentist chair or I wake up startled and my whole body of nerves are on fire. Happens. Not often, but when it does, I'm like, "Not this again!" I get irrational and have to dig deep to stay rational. I take a half a pill cuz that's all I need. Unless I can self-talk my way out of the attack. Sometimes I can.

Another thing that has helped me a lot is https://www.bible.com . In addition to tracking my Bible reading, they have other "plans" that deal with anxiety and depression. I listen to a few of those, usually a pastor or a counselor with a small devotional, and then a couple of verses that deal with trusting God, or God's provisions, or one specifically that addresses anxiety. It's amazing how calming this can be.

But, I won't stop seeing the doc (for now) and I keep the pills I have with me wherever I go. Panic attacks are ugly beasts and they come out of nowhere. One tiny little pill will put that bugger back in its cage. If that's what it takes, sign me up! ;)

Happy Monday.
 

Papa Zoom

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#77
GBT God behavior therapy
Philippians 2:13 KJV
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure

Or
You can do it the old covenant way:
II Chronicles 7:14 KJV
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

One way is by grace and the other by works.

Inside us is endorphin release to block pain ( sometimes from anxiety)
Energy from the Word can be released from the table of shew bread.

Do I always get the God given systems to work. No.

Leaves are for the healing of the nations. Melissa / lemon balm.

This is the SAD season. Walk in sunlight and Son Light.

Seasonal affective disorder will be at its peak December 21

Spring is on the way.

eddif
Good advice. I have a sun light but nothing is better than Son Light!
 

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