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Question about Christ

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Johnn

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#1
Hello,
I am a Christian and have a question regarding the payment that Christ made to cover our sins. We are all sinners and deserve to be punished for our sins. The deserved punishment is eternal death/separation from God. Now, Jesus came to pay the price of our sins - to take the deserved punishment for us. Now if he took our punishment in our place should he not suffer eternal death/punishment from God? This is the logic that my mind puts to it, but I certainly don't like it. What am I missing?
 
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#2
When Jesus was crucified, God put all of his anger, the sins of all people, upon him.
When He died, he went to the heart of the earth. (Matthew 12:40)
So, He did go to the place of the dead.
And then, he was raised to life. (Matthew 16:21)
Jesus is not subject to death, because he conquered it. (Romans 6:9)
And now, since he has conquered death, he sits at God's right hand. (Matthew 26:6)
To read about Christ's role in our lives now, read Hebrews 8.
I hope this helps you!
 
E

exmormon

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#3
Yes Jesus did suffer death and separation from God, remember when he cried out, "Father why have you forsaken me." But God redeemed Jesus life from that death and separation (punishment) three days later by resurrecting him.
 
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#4
Hello,
I am a Christian and have a question regarding the payment that Christ made to cover our sins. We are all sinners and deserve to be punished for our sins. The deserved punishment is eternal death/separation from God. Now, Jesus came to pay the price of our sins - to take the deserved punishment for us. Now if he took our punishment in our place should he not suffer eternal death/punishment from God? This is the logic that my mind puts to it, but I certainly don't like it. What am I missing?
Hi Johnn, what you may be missing is the resurrection of Jesus, as exmormon pointed out, but also a depth of understanding God's Justice and grace.

Gods justice is 100% good, or righteous. In order for mankind to be in the presences of God he must be 100% righteous. But man isn't 100% righteous. Man is 100% fallen. God does not grade on a curve when it comes to judging people worthy or not. So, it's not a matter of how "good" a person is. All of mankind is fallen. All of mankind deserve separation from God. No man is worthy to be in the presence of God.

It's important to note that Jesus was innocent. He did not need Gods grace to be seen as righteous. He was 100% righteous. We, on the other hand, are not, and no man has ever been, except Jesus Christ who was God as a man. God in the flesh. God in person-hood.

When you understand the fullness of mankinds sinfulness, in contrast to the fullness of Jesus righteousness, you understand Christ sacrifice for sinners more clearly.

In the final analysis, not all men are saved. Those who are saved, are saved, not because of anything they have done, but are saved only by what Jesus Christ has done.

We still, and will always, have a problem with this in the church. But, understand that Christ is not just an example to us, He is God, and He took on the sins of the world so that any man can have a relationship with Him and be saved. Jesus Christ did not suffer eternal death because He lives. He rose from the dead.

Paul speaks about and answers your question in 1 Corinthians 15. I have pasted it here for you.

1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. 9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11 Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.
The Resurrection of the Dead
12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men. 20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. 29 Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? 30 And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? 31 I die every day--I mean that, brothers--just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. 32 If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die." 33 Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character." 34 Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God--I say this to your shame.
The Resurrection Body
35 But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. 42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven. 50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-- 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." 55 "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?" 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
 

Sparrowhawke

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#5
I also think that the answer that you're looking for can be found in 1Corinthians 15
But instead of copying it here -- maybe a link to a variety of versions will help?
Look around verse 21 for the context.

Here's the link ---> BibleHub 1Corinthians 15

Death could not hold him. That's how we know that those in Christ will not be held - because the saying, "Where, O death, is your victory?" was fulfilled in Jesus. The promise that was made to Eve about "her seed" is being fulfilled in us (through Jesus) too.

Isa 57:1-2 The righteous man perishes, and no man takes it to heart; And devout men are taken away, while no one understands. For the righteous man is taken away from evil, He enters into peace; They rest in their beds, each one who walked in his upright way.
 

for_his_glory

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#6
Hi John and welcome to the forums. Interesting question. This could be answered in one word, grace. The word that was made flesh is that of Jesus in being the very Spirit of God come in the flesh whom now sits at the right hand of God making intercession for all of us before the Father. No one can stand before God in all his glory and live and for this reason Jesus now makes intercession on our behalf before the Father. Jesus as being that last unblemished sacrificial Lamb had no sin, but was made the final sacrifice for the atonement of sin. When Jesus cried out from the cross and said why hast thou forsaken me it wasn't that God forsook him, but that God can not look upon sin. Jesus took away our sin and cast it into the depths of hell where it belongs. It wasn't that Jesus was putting our sin on himself, but gathering sin to himself and casting it away.

Titus 2:11 for the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ;
Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Titus 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
 
J

Johnn

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#7
Wow, this is really good feedback . It is all so helpful to me. I have read through everyone's comments and references and am going to read through it all a few more times. This certainly all helps me understand the answer to my question. Thank you all so much. Peace to you all.
 
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#9
Wow, this is really good feedback . It is all so helpful to me. I have read through everyone's comments and references and am going to read through it all a few more times. This certainly all helps me understand the answer to my question. Thank you all so much. Peace to you all.
Awesome!
And good for you for searching the Word!
 
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#10
h
Was he in doubt at that certain time?. Why did he need to say that if he already knew everything?
Hey Dan, I think there are two answers to that.
1) Because Jesus had to suffer the fate that we are supposed to suffer , I mean being cut off from God for eternity. God in His wisdom made Jesus suffer completely including "forsaking" Him in His suffering. That way Jesus truly took our punishment in full for us.
2) Yes Jesus knew the cup he was about to drink from, so He knew God would forsake Him at that time. But think about it. He was God in human form at that time. Therefore the pain and suffering he was going through is indescribable. He had been flayed, crucified , was hanging with his body weight pulling on raw wounds in the sun with no water.
In human form it would have been excruciating and he was possibly delirious by that time causing Him to cry out.

That's my take on it anyway.
Blessings to all in His Holy name
 

for_his_glory

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#11
Was he in doubt at that certain time?. Why did he need to say that if he already knew everything?
Psalms 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring? (this is David crying out to God)

Mark 14:35 And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.
Mark 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

David complained because he was brought into such anguish that he was past all hope. He felt like God would not deliver him from his torment, but yet his faith was being made even stronger in
knowing God, like his forefathers, would eventually deliver him.

Jesus cried out from the despairs of his heart through the physical pain inflicted on him as he hung on the cross up to the ninth hour when God finally delivered him as he gave up the Ghost. He knew that God would deliver him, just as the cup did not pass from him, Jesus knew he was in the will of God no matter how long it took God to make an end of his suffering. It was through the suffering of Jesus on the cross that the Centurion and many others came to believe he was the son of God when they witnessed the ninth hour when Jesus gave up the Ghost, Matthew 27:51-54.

Like us, God will never give us any more than we can handle, even though going through the trials and tribulations that tempt us we might feel that God has forsaken us, but God promised He will never leave us nor forsake us.

1Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Hebrews 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
 
R

Rick W

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#12
Question answered. :)
Other discussion can continue in Apologetics & Theology or Bible Study .
 
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