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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Question about Daniel 9
- Thread starter EDEN2004
- Start date
The old covenant was replaced by the new and became obsolete at the Cross. The old Covenant shadows and types that point to Christ and were fulfilled by Christ became the New Covenant.
A study of the word new would clear up your confusion in this matter.
It is finished!
Simple as that!
JLB
Stormcrow
Member
You use the phrase "Law" not me.
The scripture you quote has no bearing of this thread, like so many you post.
4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." Genesis 26:4-5
Spoken 430 years before the Law!
JLB
Trying to define the old covenant as meaning it to be Heaven and earth shows just how far preterism will twist God's word.
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Did Jesus Christ fulfill all the Law or not?
JLB
Stormcrow
Member
Go back and reread that post until it you understand it.
And for those really interested in discussion rather than hysterical hand-waving, the Old Covenant established the children of Israel as God's holy ("set apart") people and put them in the land he promised Abraham. This land - with its capitol at Jerusalem - was the "heaven and earth" Jesus references in the gospels and John later references in Revelation 21.
The Old Covenant is not "heaven and earth." But the Old Covenant did establish the people on the "heaven and earth" God gave them after delivering them out of Egypt! Furthermore, one of the penalties for disobedience God promised them would be directed at their heaven and earth!
~'If also after these things you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. ~'I will also break down your pride of power; I will also make your sky [shamayim: heaven] like iron and your earth [erets: land] like bronze. ~'Your strength will be spent uselessly, for your land will not yield its produce and the trees of the land will not yield their fruit. Leviticus 26:18-20 (NASB)
So now, when we read:
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Matthew 5:18 (NASB)
You should understand what Jesus meant by this. The Law (Old Covenant) would not pass away until the "heaven and earth" God gave them had passed away. And their heaven and earth was represented by the Holy City and its Temple!
Such nuances of scripture are lost on some, however, who only seek to defend a doctrine rather than seek the truth.
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What you call a nuance, Peter called twisting God's word.
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. 2 Peter 3:16
Look at the context in which Peter makes this statement!!!
5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.
7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
JLB
You are as you accuse.
Peter's letter actually supports Jesus's words in Matthew 5:18, and that view is the one I have laid out now twice!
Of course letter support's Jesus's words.
What is clear from Peter's letter is Heaven and earth means just that, not what you say it to mean, which is heaven and earth = the old covenant.
That is the clearest example of twisting God's word as I have ever come across.
For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.
This is a clear reference to the days of Noah in which the earth was flooded! Literally.
This event happened long before the old covenant.
Literal heavens and literal earth, which makes preterism unsound and unstable in it's teaching!
You are exposing it for what it is quite nicely!
JLB
Sinthesis
Member
The heavens and earth are different for, and so peculiar to, each religious culture. They represent various divine ideals and their application through religious doctrine and ritual, all in an effort to gain favor with their respective interpretation of the divine. Human history is that in which God has consistantly judged and eliminated these insufficient falsehoods while revealing the truth of the matter to us through various means culminating in the earthy life of His Son Jesus. It should therefore be no surprise that the heavens and earth of malignant first century Judaism were destroyed as described in the NT, just as the heavens and earth of 6th century BC Babylon were destroyed long before as described in the OT.
Sorry, that doesn't hold an ounce of water in light of Peter's clear reference to the days of Noah.
Literal water, flooded a literal earth. Literal people perished, literally.
That is the context in which Peter writes and teaches.
7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
The Day of Judgement is a literal event and is described by fire.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
No "symbolic" reference to the heavens and earth = the old covenant here. ... these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness...
Peter admonishes believers to walk in godliness and holy conduct.
New Heavens and New Earth that we are promised to look forward to, in which all righteous will dwell.
No crime. No sickness. No wars.
Look around, we are not there yet!
JLB
11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
No "symbolic" reference to the heavens and earth = the old covenant here. ... these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness...
Peter admonishes believers to walk in godliness and holy conduct.
New Heavens and New Earth that we are promised to look forward to, in which all righteous will dwell.
No crime. No sickness. No wars.
We are looking forward to when this comes to pass!
Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
JLB
jasoncran
Member
see what i posted elsewhere. well when dont believe that the jews then taught heaven and earth met in jerusalem? ah yes the gentiles that cant speak hebrew nor really care to bother with the sages just so happen to know more them jews that were raised in the temple.
even my dad who was bar mitzvahed would agree. god met man and DWELT in that temple. nah he didnt tell them that if they repented or built it he wouldnt dwell there. ah yes he did and the sages before christ believe that to be the messiah and the knew way of the temple. ie a fleshly one. i said i take it both ways.
new heavens and earth is a restoration. i have answered you in the futurism and temple. good look explaining to me why YOU must do the shabat and the torah.
even my dad who was bar mitzvahed would agree. god met man and DWELT in that temple. nah he didnt tell them that if they repented or built it he wouldnt dwell there. ah yes he did and the sages before christ believe that to be the messiah and the knew way of the temple. ie a fleshly one. i said i take it both ways.
new heavens and earth is a restoration. i have answered you in the futurism and temple. good look explaining to me why YOU must do the shabat and the torah.
I can read clearly what Peter wrote about heaven and earth. I don't need some unsaved sages who reject the messiah teaching what is clearly written in english by the Apostle Peter.
So why don't you explain to me where the reference to the temple and Jerusalem is in what Peter wrote here -
For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water,
by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.
The Jewish Apostle Peter is referencing the heavens and the earth speaking of the flood in the days of Noah in his writing about the heaven and the earth being destroyed by fire.
Where is the symbolic meaning of the temple in the flood in the days of Noah?
That was a literal flood that wiped out the literal earth.
So Peter in context of the literal destruction by water refers to a future literal destruction by fire!
Simple as that.
I don't need some unsaved Jewish sage to twist what Spirit Filled Peter is teaching me.
JLB
jasoncran
Member
really, unsaved such as these
http://www.kabbalaonline.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/472745/jewish/Index-of-Sages.htm
cough, abraham, david, and joel? ezra, ezekiel. shall i go on? those unsaved sages and one of them is quoted by peter in acts 2. where is the modern day edom? where is modern day egypt when jesus will come on a cloud to them and not the whole earth? how many returns do you futurist have. i dont even like the kabbalah , i do use some of the concepts and many here do. one admin did.
you might want to learn something on judiasm, and that blindess that paul speaks about. i see it far more then you.did i make it clear that i see a new age and that is to come but it also can me what hitch and et all are saying. hmm the blood started the redemptive way for the world and that will come when the lord returns.
do you or do you not believe that law will return per that unsaved sage ezekiel.
if you dont why? its plain as day. but i guess that justin martyr a christian also didnt agree with you either. he didnt believe in sin when christ returns.
http://www.kabbalaonline.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/472745/jewish/Index-of-Sages.htm
cough, abraham, david, and joel? ezra, ezekiel. shall i go on? those unsaved sages and one of them is quoted by peter in acts 2. where is the modern day edom? where is modern day egypt when jesus will come on a cloud to them and not the whole earth? how many returns do you futurist have. i dont even like the kabbalah , i do use some of the concepts and many here do. one admin did.
you might want to learn something on judiasm, and that blindess that paul speaks about. i see it far more then you.did i make it clear that i see a new age and that is to come but it also can me what hitch and et all are saying. hmm the blood started the redemptive way for the world and that will come when the lord returns.
do you or do you not believe that law will return per that unsaved sage ezekiel.
if you dont why? its plain as day. but i guess that justin martyr a christian also didnt agree with you either. he didnt believe in sin when christ returns.