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Rapture or Armageddon

What do you think?


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JM

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Found this on the net and wondered what ch'ya thought...
_______________________________________________
First read the following Biblical passage:

Matt. 24:27 - 40
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
_______________________________________________________

Now read:

v. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

v. 30-31 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

v. 37-40 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


Now, decide which event Christ had in mind when He gave this specific instruction to His disciples. Does this passage refer to the battle of Armageddon as recorded in Revelation 19:11-21, or does it refer to the rapture of the saints as recorded in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17?
 
Dear beloved

The battle of Armageddon, and the rapture of the believers will BOTH occur on the last day.

These events are both to happen on judgement day!

Jesus came as the saviour in His first coming.

John 19:30,
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, IT IS FINISHED: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

It is finished is a statement which shows that the work neccessary to save His children was complete.

God speaks of JUDGEMENT DAY as the day of the battle of Armageddon.

Revelation 16:16-17,
And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue ARMAGEDDON.
And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, IT IS DONE.

It is done is a statement which shows us it's the end! Jesus comes on the last day as the Judge.

John 12:48,
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall JUDGE HIM in the LAST DAY.

The last day is also resurrection day!

John 6:39,
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY.

John 6:44,
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY.

John 6:54,
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY.

Even Martha knew resurrection day was tha last day.

John 11:24,
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

God bless us all!

!jeremiah~
 
Quote:

The question itself is flawed.

There is no reference in these verses to any battle, much less the specific battle of Armageddon. If the question were to be worded fairly it should ask, "Does this passage refer to the glorious return of Christ as recorded in Revelation 19:11-21, or does it refer to the rapture of the saints as recorded in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17." In that case, knowledgeable students would be most likely to choose the Glorious Return.
 
Found this on the net and wondered what ch'ya thought...
_______________________________________________
First read the following Biblical passage:

Matt. 24:27 - 40
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
_______________________________________________________

Now read:

v. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

v. 30-31 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

v. 37-40 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.



Now, decide which event Christ had in mind when He gave this specific instruction to His disciples. Does this passage refer to the battle of Armageddon as recorded in Revelation 19:11-21, or does it refer to the rapture of the saints as recorded in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17?
I haven't found anywhere in the scriptures that talk of the rapture. The Scriptures speak of the resurrection, not a rapture.
 
Quote:

The question itself is flawed.

There is no reference in these verses to any battle, much less the specific battle of Armageddon. If the question were to be worded fairly it should ask, "Does this passage refer to the glorious return of Christ as recorded in Revelation 19:11-21, or does it refer to the rapture of the saints as recorded in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17." In that case, knowledgeable students would be most likely to choose the Glorious Return.
I disagree that 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 speaks of a rapture. The context shows that the apostle Paul is speaking about the resurrection.
 
Quote:

The question itself is flawed.

There is no reference in these verses to any battle, much less the specific battle of Armageddon. If the question were to be worded fairly it should ask, "Does this passage refer to the glorious return of Christ as recorded in Revelation 19:11-21, or does it refer to the rapture of the saints as recorded in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17." In that case, knowledgeable students would be most likely to choose the Glorious Return.

Nah, I took it like it was an IQ test question and it makes as simple as can be.

Perhaps not an everyday question but a good question. But that's how iq tests go, lol.
 
The big confusion about this subject is mostly with English speaking people who aren't familiar with Greek and Hebrew words and culture. So when they read it, it's been translated and it's easy to miss little things. Even when the subject is changed and the apostles knew it immediately because they spoke them languages, but the english speakers who read a translation didn't catch that change of subject because to translate it they will use a word that is "close to it" for lack of a better (english) word.

Of course I am talking about Matthew 24 here. Four disciples came to Jesus on the sly, privately and asked Him to tell us these things! And Jesus gives them a confidential briefing. He lays down a whole lot of info quick and yes, even changes the subject on them quickly because they are understanding Him and not translating it like we had to. And when everybody studies hard and includes a Concordance or similar digital concordance like BlueLetterBible.com it can reveal more insight into the actual message.

Great what do we look up first? Rapture! Harpazo! Not this time, we know what Rapture means. Have you ever looked up the little phrases that structure the text and are not keywords? Verbs and stuff. Whovever decided to format the scriptures in to chapter and verse did a pretty good job at change chapter change subject, but it's not throughly like that. For example in 1 Corinthins 7 Paul is speaking about instructions for marriage. Then in 1 Corinthians 8 he changes the subject in verse 1 and starts talking about food sacrificed to idols. Now regarding means change the subject. For example:

1 Corinthians 8
1 Now regarding your question about food that has been offered to idols..../

Now (G1161 de) regarding (G4012 peri) (touching on, concerning)... (Change of subject.) This one seem obvious though, right? I mean marriage and eating food sacrificed to idols is an obvious change of subject, even for us dumb hillbillies. But is the Rapture before or after the great tribulation is a wee bit more confusing, at first! But Paul uses the same type of phrasing as Jesus did also when speaking to the disciples in Matthew 24. And if you spend some tme in Matthew 24 with blueletter bible.org and sort that out by phrasing you will see that Jesus did change the subject on the disciples. I am not going to post where exactly it is. You go find it for yourself is the only way that you can believe it. I have tried getting it across that the Rapture is clearly before the tribulation and always immediately get rained on by naysayers and that can make a guy feel a little foolish, lol. But on the other hand, Jesus said He will cause us to appear foolish so, Praise the Lord I guess! But I leave you that to study out Matthew 24 and find it yourself. I promise it is in there!


Think about it, the disciples asked for Jesus to clue them in, so He told them a lot. Agreed? He changed the subject in the text. The disciples kenew it because they spoke His language, but it was confidential briefing and Jesus hit on a few different subjects! So study the Greek words some more.

Besides your Greek Bible study, consider that the clues are all over the Bible. The coming of the Lord isn't exactly the same thing as the day of wrath. It is talking about two events. The coming of the Lord (coming of the Son of Man) is when He comes in the air to Rapture His Bride. On the day of wrath, He comes to the earth. When He comes in the air, we all get Translated, 2nd coming/Parousia, no translations take place. In the air, He comes For His Bride. 2nd coming, He comes With His Bride! Saints go to Heaven, Saints return to the earth. It. is. Two. events. There are Rapture verses and 2nd coming verses in Matthew 24.

Can you find the change of subject?! :popcorn
 
Last edited:
Found this on the net and wondered what ch'ya thought...
_______________________________________________
First read the following Biblical passage:

Matt. 24:27 - 40
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
_______________________________________________________

Now read:

v. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

v. 30-31 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

v. 37-40 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.



Now, decide which event Christ had in mind when He gave this specific instruction to His disciples. Does this passage refer to the battle of Armageddon as recorded in Revelation 19:11-21, or does it refer to the rapture of the saints as recorded in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17?
You didn't have the third choice J, and that is the actual answer both! The remainder of those called to be holy ones (spirit anointed Christians) will meet the Lord in the air commonly called the rapture. And those who remain on earth will undergo Armageddon which is the removal of satan, the demons, and the goats who follow them. Bob
 
Ezekiel chapter 13, God is against the fly away doctrine, the rapture. Its false doctrine. Revelation is 13, everyone is going to be tested by antichrist, 5 month period. The saints, Election, have seal of God, they won't worship antichrist, read Roman's chapter 11, and revelation chapter 7. Those who have mark of beast, will worship antichrist, chapter 13, revelation. Some people are too lazy to study the bible or seek out misguided preachers to distort Gods word to their interest. The truth isn't popular with some people. Those banking on the rapture, will end up in hell. I told the truth and documented it.
 
Ezekiel chapter 13, God is against the fly away doctrine, the rapture. Its false doctrine. Revelation is 13, everyone is going to be tested by antichrist,

Everyone but the Bride that is.

Is the Bride set apart or isn't she?
 
Those banking on the rapture, will end up in hell. I told the truth and documented it.

Say what? If someone anyone thought the Rapture was sooner rather than later...what is the worst that could happen? A person stares out the window looking for Jesus before He comes...and you think that will send him to hell?!?!

Oh pray tell how this could send one to hell? I can't wait to hear this.
 
You didn't have the third choice J, and that is the actual answer both! The remainder of those called to be holy ones (spirit anointed Christians) will meet the Lord in the air commonly called the rapture. And those who remain on earth will undergo Armageddon which is the removal of satan, the demons, and the goats who follow them. Bob

Both? So He comes in the air and then we go up in the air to meet Him...and then what? Do we come right back down with Him again?

That does not compute.
 
Revelation shows Christs coming one verse before Armeggedon.

Revelation 16
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
 
Both? So He comes in the air and then we go up in the air to meet Him...and then what? Do we come right back down with Him again?

That does not compute.
Those raptured will reside in heaven, they are called by many titles; holy ones, saints, anointed, in Christ, chosen, etc, do you recognize those in Mat 24:22 as being among them? If you do, at what point in the tribulation does that take place Ed?
 
Say what? If someone anyone thought the Rapture was sooner rather than later...what is the worst that could happen? A person stares out the window looking for Jesus before He comes...and you think that will send him to hell?!?!

Oh pray tell how this could send one to hell? I can't wait to hear this.
And then when the Mark of the Beast shows up... because the person hasn't been Raptured... they believe that the mark is not the real mark... so they take it and worship the Beast(who isn't the beast because no Rapture)... and get to float down the Lake of Fire.
 
And then when the Mark of the Beast shows up... because the person hasn't been Raptured... they believe that the mark is not the real mark... so they take it and worship the Beast(who isn't the beast because no Rapture)... and get to float down the Lake of Fire.

Hasn't been raptured? So you believe the rapture will happen before the tribulation & mark of the Beast?
 
Those raptured will reside in heaven, they are called by many titles; holy ones, saints, anointed, in Christ, chosen, etc, do you recognize those in Mat 24:22 as being among them? If you do, at what point in the tribulation does that take place Ed?

It is at this point in the great tribulation that Jesus has to come back or no flesh would be saved. So That would means that the church is long gone. (And back with Jesus!)
 
Hasn't been raptured? So you believe the rapture will happen before the tribulation & mark of the Beast?
I don't know where you got the impression that I believe that the Rapture happens first.
I was answering your question. "what is the worst that can happen..."
Hellfire and Damnation. That is the worst that can happen if someone believes in the imminent rapture and it does not happen.
 
I don't know where you got the impression that I believe that the Rapture happens first.
I was answering your question. "what is the worst that can happen..."
Hellfire and Damnation. That is the worst that can happen if someone believes in the imminent rapture and it does not happen.

I guess I did read that wrong. So what are you saying then? That anyone who is on earth, and because they have not been raptured, they will not think the mark is real so take it and be damned...Right?

So using your logic and phrasing, no one is safe from the mark even the church and all will be damned.

That's not very encouraging. Why would Jesus do that to His Bride?
 
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