Bible Study rapture to second coming how long time in between `?

[thesaintman]

can you say me it ?

 

[Free]

can you say me it ?

There most likely isn't a rapture.

 

[Sinthesis]

There most likely isn't a rapture.

At least not the pop culture Christian definition of rapture.

 

[Brother Mike]

There most likely isn't a rapture.

There is a type of rapture, we won't be here when God trashes earth.

However, it may not be the get off free of all things type of rapture, I am looking for a civil war here in the states. It's looks more like a pre-wrath type thing.

 

[Chopper]

There is a Rapture of the Bride of Christ. Then 7 years of tribulation. Then the return of Christ to set up His Kingdom for a thousand years.

 

[JLB]

can you say me it ?

The Rapture happens at the Second Coming.

The rapture takes place a moment after the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

The Rapture and Resurrection is one event, that happens at His Coming.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


...caught up together with them.

The resurrection of the dead in Christ and the Rapture, is one event, that takes place at His coming.

This event is called the gathering.

The dead in Christ, and those who are alive and remain will be gathered together.

His Coming is the second coming.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:24-27



JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

can you say me it ?

Yes, I can say it you.
They happen at the exact same time.

 

[Chopper]

The subject of the rapture is very interesting because of the varied preconceptions and idea's of so may people. There is an amusing slant on this subject that I see and have pointed out over the years. We need to be very careful about what we confess with our mouth and believe with our heart because of these Scriptures....

Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the LORD, and he will give you the desires of your heart." (ESV)

1 Samuel 8:19 "But the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel. And they said, "No! But there shall be a king over us,
8:20 that we also may be like all the nations, and that our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles."
8:21 And when Samuel had heard all the words of the people, he repeated them in the ears of the LORD.
8:22 And the LORD said to Samuel, "Obey their voice and make them a king." Samuel then said to the men of Israel, "Go every man to his city."

Why these verses you ask? There are four basic belief's among Christians today about a rapture and the 2nd advent of Christ Jesus, the Son of God.

Pre-trib rapture, mid-trib, post-trib, and no-trib. Now, for those who believe that there will be no rapture, they will not experience it because God gives the person his/her desire. The same with mid, post, and no. What ever you personally believe in your heart and mind, that is just what God will allow to happen to you.

There are some folk who confuse the second coming (advent) with the rapture of the Bride of Christ. They are not the same event. The rapture sees Jesus coming in clouds to gather up His faithful Bride, not coming on the earth like the second advent.

As for me? I'm with this group....Revelation 3:10 "Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth." ESV....Since most Theologians believe that the seven Churches that are listed in Revelation 2 & 3, represent Churches in every generation since Pentecost, I believe the Church at Philadelphia and the blessing of being removed from the earth before God's judgment that will fall on the wicked during the seven year tribulation period, is very real, and will happen for sure.

Ok folks, be careful what you say with your mouth or type with your fingers, It very well might be that God will give you the desire of your heart and either escape the terrible Tribulation because you have been very patient and faithful to Jesus, the Son of God, in His absence, and faithful to witness to the lost, and been faithful in serving others in a local Church by being a vessel for Jesus to minister to others in the love of Jesus, there is a reward....

Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap.
6:8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life." (ESV)

Galatians 6:8 "For the idle Christian who is not sowing faithful works in Jesus, shall miss the rapture, but the one who sows to the Spirit, and presents his life a living sacrifice to God, will be gathered to Jesus in the rapture." (Chopperism)
Gal 6:9 And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap the rapture, if we do not give up.

 

[JLB]

The subject of the rapture is very interesting because of the varied preconceptions and idea's of so may people. There is an amusing slant on this subject that I see and have pointed out over the years. We need to be very careful about what we confess with our mouth and believe with our heart because of these Scriptures....

Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the LORD, and he will give you the desires of your heart." (ESV)

1 Samuel 8:19 "But the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel. And they said, "No! But there shall be a king over us,
8:20 that we also may be like all the nations, and that our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles."
8:21 And when Samuel had heard all the words of the people, he repeated them in the ears of the LORD.
8:22 And the LORD said to Samuel, "Obey their voice and make them a king." Samuel then said to the men of Israel, "Go every man to his city."

Why these verses you ask? There are four basic belief's among Christians today about a rapture and the 2nd advent of Christ Jesus, the Son of God.

Pre-trib rapture, mid-trib, post-trib, and no-trib. Now, for those who believe that there will be no rapture, they will not experience it because God gives the person his/her desire. The same with mid, post, and no. What ever you personally believe in your heart and mind, that is just what God will allow to happen to you.

There are some folk who confuse the second coming (advent) with the rapture of the Bride of Christ. They are not the same event. The rapture sees Jesus coming in clouds to gather up His faithful Bride, not coming on the earth like the second advent.

As for me? I'm with this group....Revelation 3:10 "Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth." ESV....Since most Theologians believe that the seven Churches that are listed in Revelation 2 & 3, represent Churches in every generation since Pentecost, I believe the Church at Philadelphia and the blessing of being removed from the earth before God's judgment that will fall on the wicked during the seven year tribulation period, is very real, and will happen for sure.

Ok folks, be careful what you say with your mouth or type with your fingers, It very well might be that God will give you the desire of your heart and either escape the terrible Tribulation because you have been very patient and faithful to Jesus, the Son of God, in His absence, and faithful to witness to the lost, and been faithful in serving others in a local Church by being a vessel for Jesus to minister to others in the love of Jesus, there is a reward....

Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap.
6:8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life." (ESV)

Galatians 6:8 "For the idle Christian who is not sowing faithful works in Jesus, shall miss the rapture, but the one who sows to the Spirit, and presents his life a living sacrifice to God, will be gathered to Jesus in the rapture." (Chopperism)
Gal 6:9 And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap the rapture, if we do not give up.

I guess it's a matter of reading what the scriptures say about the subject, and believing what they say.

I honestly don't see any confusion at all in what the bible says about the coming of the Lord.

The resurrection of the dead in Christ happens at His coming.
The rapture [same as the resurrection for living people] happens at His coming.
The destruction of the antichrist happens at His coming.


Strong's G3952 - parousia - coming - feminine noun

• presence

• the coming, arrival, advent
  1. the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God

Here is a description of the coming of the Lord:

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


...we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them.

Here the resurrection of the dead in Christ as well as the rapture, will occur at His coming.

This is the gathering of all His people.

I repeat: This is the gathering of all His people.

All His people.

This same coming that gathers all His people, will also mean the destruction of the antichrist, by the very brightness of His coming.

Here is the second letter to the same exact Thessalonians about the same exact subject matter, concerning the same exact coming of the Lord and the gathering.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God...And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4,8


...then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


The coming of the Lord to Gather His people, is the coming of the Lord that destroys the antichrist.


JLB

 

[Chopper]

Hey, you are certainly welcome to believe what you're convicted of, I won't quarrel with that. It's not what I believe, but we still love each other as Brothers, and to God be the glory!!

 

[turnorburn]

The rapture was designed to hide something, can you say me it?

 

[JLB]

Hey, you are certainly welcome to believe what you're convicted of, I won't quarrel with that. It's not what I believe, but we still love each other as Brothers, and to God be the glory!!

Could you at least share with us, what you disagree with in my post?

This coming [noun] of the Lord is the event that causes the resurrection of the dead in Christ, and the rapture as well as the destruction of the antichrist [lawless one].

If you don't disagree with this part, then maybe it's the word coming itself [parousia;noun] and how the Strong's describes this word.

This word coming, which describes the arrival or advent of someone is used in 2 Thessalonians 2, three different times, and should be sufficient to describe the context and meaning of the word, coming [parousia], of both Christ and the antichrist.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12

This word "coming" describes the arrival, advent and or revealing or revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ, as He returns from heaven to gather His people, as well as the arrival, advent, and revealing of the false christ, who proclaims himself as god in the Temple of God.

The paramount picture of these verse's shows the false christ being consumed and destroyed by the brightness of the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


If you choose to believe that the destruction of the false christ, by the brightness of the coming or our Lord is before the tribulation, then that is up to you. Please know that you are loved and respected by me and many others here on CF Net, as well.


God Bless you.


JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

The rapture was designed to hide something, can you say me it?

I'm really bad with eschatology TOB, so I can't say you it.

But you better say me it -
I'll be waiting...

Wondering

 

[for_his_glory]

Rapture is explained in these verses if you read them for what they say. Parentheses are added by myself as they are not part of the scripture, but reveal that Rev 14:11-20 is the precursor for the catching up of the saints (Rapture) that makes up the true body of Christ. This is separating the wheat from the tares or in other words saints from sinners as sinners being those who have taken the mark of the beast in Rev 13. Christ is sending the angels to separate the wheat from the tares to protect His own as they continue to witness Christ to those who will finally have ears to hear up to and during Gods seven vial judgments, Rev 15:1-8; 16:1-21.

After mystery Babylon is revealed and then destroyed, Rev Chapters 17, 18, heaven rejoices her destruction as the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. It is not until we read in Rev 19 of Christ second coming as we His Bride has prepared ourselves, those in the grave and we that are still alive to be caught up together to the clouds and given our new glorified bodies as we are arrayed in fine linen, clean and white then meet Christ in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, as we are then joined to our Groom (Jesus) for the marriage supper (union) of the Lamb and His Bride.

We then immediately come down to earth with Him as Jesus plants His feet on the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, to fight the final battle as He smites the nations and now rules over them. Jesus will then cast Satan into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet that has caused a great falling away, 2Thessalonians 2:3. Then comes Gods final judgment on those who have rejected Christ and they are then cast into the lake of fire for their names were not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev Chapter 20. Heaven and earth are restored and the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we are with the Lord for eternity. Comparing Rev 14 with Matthew 13 we see a clear distinction between the wheat and the tares. Wheat (body of Christ) is the good crop and the tares which means weeds are the unjust that will be gathered into the great winepress of Gods wrath.
(Revelation 14:11-20; Matthew 13:25-40)

 

[Jim Parker]

Pre-trib rapture, mid-trib, post-trib, and no-trib. Now, for those who believe that there will be no rapture, they will not experience it because God gives the person his/her desire. The same with mid, post, and no. What ever you personally believe in your heart and mind, that is just what God will allow to happen to you.

None of the rapture teaching existed anywhere before the 19th century. Prior to 1830, no church taught a pre-tribulation rapture (Or mid or post) in their creed, catechism or statement of faith.

One wonders, if this teaching is so important, why didn't the church know about this for over 1700 years?
Why didn't any of the earliest writers of the church ever mention it?
If no one from the apostolic age until 1830 taught it then is it truly Christian doctrine or just another "wind of doctrine?

This new innovation is based on one passage.
1Th 4:15-17 (RSV) For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Note the words "the coming of the Lord." At the time when Paul was writing and up until Darby's new teaching, those words referred to the second coming of Christ to establish the eternal reign of God on earth. No one from the days of the apostles until John Darby taught that there would be a "third coming" as is necessary for the "rapture" teaching.

The image of being caught up to meet the Lord in the air reflects the culture of the 1st century Greco-Roman world. When a king or a conquering general or an important dignitary visited a city, the population would go out to meet him and escort him into the city. It was the 1st century equivalent of a "ticker-tape" parade.

The teaching has been made very popular in a segment of American Protestant churches and many books, tapes, dvds have been produced explaining exactly when what will happen. Visiting evangelists and TV ministries will show their charts and explain it in great detail. But, I ask, to what purpose? The question Jesus asked was, "When the son of man returns, will he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8b) He asked that question because all the wonderful knowledge of what and when and where won't mean diddly-squat if the Lord returns and I'm not diligently doing "the good works, which God prepared beforehand" (Eph 2:10) that I should be doing.

It is a matter of great concern for me that so many preachers and teachers emphasize the importance of this kind of "knowledge" while at the same time railing against everything that involves anything that looks like what they call "salvation by works."

Following is what Jesus said. I ask that you consider which is is worthy of greater emphasis in teaching and preaching; Jesus' teaching or Darby's teaching.

John 5:28-29 (NKJV)… the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Jesus expanded on that statement at Mat 25:31-46 (NKJV) When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

Then the King will say to those on His right hand, “Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.

Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, “Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?”

And the King will answer and say to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.”

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, “Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.”

Then they also will answer Him, saying, “Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?”

Then He will answer them, saying, “Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.”

And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Choose carefully, my friend.


iakov the fool

 

[Chopper]

Could you at least share with us, what you disagree with in my post?

This coming [noun] of the Lord is the event that causes the resurrection of the dead in Christ, and the rapture as well as the destruction of the antichrist [lawless one].

If you don't disagree with this part, then maybe it's the word coming itself [parousia;noun] and how the Strong's describes this word.

This word coming, which describes the arrival or advent of someone is used in 2 Thessalonians 2, three different times, and should be sufficient to describe the context and meaning of the word, coming [parousia], of both Christ and the antichrist.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12

This word "coming" describes the arrival, advent and or revealing or revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ, as He returns from heaven to gather His people, as well as the arrival, advent, and revealing of the false christ, who proclaims himself as god in the Temple of God.

The paramount picture of these verse's shows the false christ being consumed and destroyed by the brightness of the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


If you choose to believe that the destruction of the false christ, by the brightness of the coming or our Lord is before the tribulation, then that is up to you. Please know that you are loved and respected by me and many others here on CF Net, as well.


God Bless you.


JLB

The Rapture is separate from the coming of the Lord. The Rapture is for Believers in Christ Jesus who have excelled for beyond the ordinary Believer. The Rapture is a reward from Jesus for the Believer who has suffered persecution of various trials that Satan designed to break them. These favored Believers fought the good fight of faith and trust in Jesus. These Believers are the Elect of God as well as God's Remnant.

The Church is made up of two classes of believers as we see the Scriptures unfold. One class are those who are busy about serving Jesus, loving Jesus, and loving their neighbor. The second class are the pew warmers, saved but just not self motivated to serve Jesus other than come and worship & fellowship. The busy Believers will go in the Rapture, the pew warmers will have to pass thru the tribulation period. Hopefully only the first three and a half years.

I have explained this a number of times. The Believers, the Elect, have a reward coming because of their steady separation to their Master Jesus and what it says about them in Revelation....Revelation 3:10 "Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth."

JLB my friend. You appear to me as not believing this portion of Scripture as it refers to the very faithful Church in Philadelphia. I guess you'd have to explain to me why you discount this as a valid reference to this being the Rapture. Look, it says that Jesus is going to "keep" these Believers "from" the hour of trial. That hour of trial is the tribulation's seven year tribulation. Can't you see that??

Anyway, what ever you believe, I respect your knowledge and wisdom in the things of our precious Lord and Savior. I love you too much to argue or debate you because of our spiritual freedom and liberty to believe differently than I do. Hey, I've been wrong before, a number of times and it's embarrassing to admit that. I'm a work in progress. I used to have a T-shirt that said, "Pastor Under Construction"

Take Care my Friend & God Bless You.

 

[JLB]

JLB my friend. You appear to me as not believing this portion of Scripture as it refers to the very faithful Church in Philadelphia. I guess you'd have to explain to me why you discount this as a valid reference to this being the Rapture. Look, it says that Jesus is going to "keep" these Believers "from" the hour of trial. That hour of trial is the tribulation's seven year tribulation. Can't you see that??

It's very simple.

Why would God need to "keep" (guard, protect) someone if they were in heaven?

The "keeping" would be here on earth where the danger is.

Just as He "kept" Noa, and Daniel, and the three Hebrew children, while here on earth.

Do you feel that there will be a need to "keep" folks in heaven?


JLB

 

[JLB]

He is a very simple, easy to understand scripture, that Paul teaches us about the Rapture.

The Rapture is separate from the coming of the Lord. The Rapture is for Believers in Christ Jesus who have excelled for beyond the ordinary Believer. The Rapture is a reward from Jesus for the Believer who has suffered persecution of various trials that Satan designed to break them. These favored Believers fought the good fight of faith and trust in Jesus. These Believers are the Elect of God as well as God's Remnant.

The Church is made up of two classes of believers as we see the Scriptures unfold. One class are those who are busy about serving Jesus, loving Jesus, and loving their neighbor. The second class are the pew warmers, saved but just not self motivated to serve Jesus other than come and worship & fellowship. The busy Believers will go in the Rapture, the pew warmers will have to pass thru the tribulation period. Hopefully only the first three and a half years.

I have explained this a number of times. The Believers, the Elect, have a reward coming because of their steady separation to their Master Jesus and what it says about them in Revelation....Revelation 3:10 "Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth."

JLB my friend. You appear to me as not believing this portion of Scripture as it refers to the very faithful Church in Philadelphia. I guess you'd have to explain to me why you discount this as a valid reference to this being the Rapture. Look, it says that Jesus is going to "keep" these Believers "from" the hour of trial. That hour of trial is the tribulation's seven year tribulation. Can't you see that??

Anyway, what ever you believe, I respect your knowledge and wisdom in the things of our precious Lord and Savior. I love you too much to argue or debate you because of our spiritual freedom and liberty to believe differently than I do. Hey, I've been wrong before, a number of times and it's embarrassing to admit that. I'm a work in progress. I used to have a T-shirt that said, "Pastor Under Construction"

Take Care my Friend & God Bless You.

The Resurrection takes place before the Rapture at the coming of the Lord.

Both the resurrected ones and the raptured ones are caught up together, to meet the Lord in the air.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:17

Again please just read these very plain and clear words from Paul about this subject of His coming and the rapture.

The dead in Christ and those who are alive and remain will both be caught up together.

That is all of His people caught up together, at His coming.


This verse 17 defines all those who are His.


JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The Rapture is separate from the coming of the Lord. The Rapture is for Believers in Christ Jesus who have excelled for beyond the ordinary Believer. The Rapture is a reward from Jesus for the Believer who has suffered persecution of various trials that Satan designed to break them. These favored Believers fought the good fight of faith and trust in Jesus. These Believers are the Elect of God as well as God's Remnant.

The Church is made up of two classes of believers as we see the Scriptures unfold. One class are those who are busy about serving Jesus, loving Jesus, and loving their neighbor. The second class are the pew warmers, saved but just not self motivated to serve Jesus other than come and worship & fellowship. The busy Believers will go in the Rapture, the pew warmers will have to pass thru the tribulation period. Hopefully only the first three and a half years.

I have explained this a number of times. The Believers, the Elect, have a reward coming because of their steady separation to their Master Jesus and what it says about them in Revelation....Revelation 3:10 "Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth."

JLB my friend. You appear to me as not believing this portion of Scripture as it refers to the very faithful Church in Philadelphia. I guess you'd have to explain to me why you discount this as a valid reference to this being the Rapture. Look, it says that Jesus is going to "keep" these Believers "from" the hour of trial. That hour of trial is the tribulation's seven year tribulation. Can't you see that??

Anyway, what ever you believe, I respect your knowledge and wisdom in the things of our precious Lord and Savior. I love you too much to argue or debate you because of our spiritual freedom and liberty to believe differently than I do. Hey, I've been wrong before, a number of times and it's embarrassing to admit that. I'm a work in progress. I used to have a T-shirt that said, "Pastor Under Construction"

Take Care my Friend & God Bless You.

Not in this forum

 

[Chopper]

None of the rapture teaching existed anywhere before the 19th century. Prior to 1830, no church taught a pre-tribulation rapture (Or mid or post) in their creed, catechism or statement of faith.

One wonders, if this teaching is so important, why didn't the church know about this for over 1700 years?
Why didn't any of the earliest writers of the church ever mention it?
If no one from the apostolic age until 1830 taught it then is it truly Christian doctrine or just another "wind of doctrine?

This new innovation is based on one passage.
1Th 4:15-17 (RSV) For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Note the words "the coming of the Lord." At the time when Paul was writing and up until Darby's new teaching, those words referred to the second coming of Christ to establish the eternal reign of God on earth. No one from the days of the apostles until John Darby taught that there would be a "third coming" as is necessary for the "rapture" teaching.

The image of being caught up to meet the Lord in the air reflects the culture of the 1st century Greco-Roman world. When a king or a conquering general or an important dignitary visited a city, the population would go out to meet him and escort him into the city. It was the 1st century equivalent of a "ticker-tape" parade.

The teaching has been made very popular in a segment of American Protestant churches and many books, tapes, dvds have been produced explaining exactly when what will happen. Visiting evangelists and TV ministries will show their charts and explain it in great detail. But, I ask, to what purpose? The question Jesus asked was, "When the son of man returns, will he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8b) He asked that question because all the wonderful knowledge of what and when and where won't mean diddly-squat if the Lord returns and I'm not diligently doing "the good works, which God prepared beforehand" (Eph 2:10) that I should be doing.

It is a matter of great concern for me that so many preachers and teachers emphasize the importance of this kind of "knowledge" while at the same time railing against everything that involves anything that looks like what they call "salvation by works."

Following is what Jesus said. I ask that you consider which is is worthy of greater emphasis in teaching and preaching; Jesus' teaching or Darby's teaching.

John 5:28-29 (NKJV)… the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Jesus expanded on that statement at Mat 25:31-46 (NKJV) When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

Then the King will say to those on His right hand, “Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.

Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, “Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?”

And the King will answer and say to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.”

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, “Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.”

Then they also will answer Him, saying, “Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?”

Then He will answer them, saying, “Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.”

And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Choose carefully, my friend.


iakov the fool

What you say is true Jim, I don't refer to