Bible Study Rapture

[Douglas Summers]

Please copy a link to the post where you answered these.

If you don’t believe the resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at His coming, then please state why, with scripture.


If you don’t believe the rapture occurs at His coming, then please state why, with scripture.


If you don’t believe the antichrist is destroyed by the brightness of His coming, then please state why, with scripture.


If you believe His coming is before the antichrist is revealed, then please state why, with scripture.




JLB

It does not matter JLB, If you say God has taught you the truth (mystery) of the resurrection, then that should be enough to settle your belief. You answer to Him....not to me.

 

[New Day Coming]

It does not matter JLB, If you say God has taught you the truth (mystery) of the resurrection, then that should be enough to settle your belief. You answer to Him....not to me.

I think it a popular concept in post-trib theology to say that those who believe the Church is raptured before the trib will fall away when they find are still here when the final seven years begins, the Antichrist confirms a Middle East peace treaty etc.

The picture painted is that we will have been made soft and therefore set up for apostasy.

Certainly, if I'm honest, I would rather not be there when the judgements start to fall, even more, my young family. However, history teaches that God gives extra strength during times of persecution.

I believe we as Christians should be concentrating on the harvest, not prepping to survive the Tribulation. I don't post here much as I try to spend my "forum time" reaching out to some of the lost folk at "vigilant citizen forums" as I find that conspiracy minded people are at least asking spiritual questions (even if some of the answers they come up with are very doubtful!!!) Look me up if you go there - I'm "Red Sky at Morning" there.

 

[for_his_glory]

I think it a popular concept in post-trib theology to say that those who believe the Church is raptured before the trib will fall away when they find are still here when the final seven years begins, the Antichrist confirms a Middle East peace treaty etc.

The picture painted is that we will have been made soft and therefore set up for apostasy.

Certainly, if I'm honest, I would rather not be there when the judgements start to fall, even more, my young family. However, history teaches that God gives extra strength during times of persecution.

I believe we as Christians should be concentrating on the harvest, not prepping to survive the Tribulation. I don't post here much as I try to spend my "forum time" reaching out to some of the lost folk at "vigilant citizen forums" as I find that conspiracy minded people are at least asking spiritual questions (even if some of the answers they come up with are very doubtful!!!) Look me up if you go there - I'm "Red Sky at Morning" there.

Popular theories/teachings like to tickle the ear and give one a feel good message, but deceives and robs one of truth. Many would rather believe all these end time pretrib Pastors for they have all made a great name for themselves, but teach a 1800's bandwagon pretrib theory as they line their pockets with others hard earned money. Nothing of what they preach lines up with scripture as I found out once I cleared my mind and started reading the word for what it says word by word, verse by verse, chapter by chapter and OT with NT. If one is not getting the full context then they only get bits and pieces that don't match up.

The whole thing is to be prepared as being the Bride of Christ (all who are in Christ that makes up His true Church being the body of Christ out of the four corners of the world.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[JLB]

It does not matter JLB, If you say God has taught you the truth (mystery) of the resurrection, then that should be enough to settle your belief. You answer to Him....not to me.

That is without question.

I find it interesting that you can’t agree on even the most basic points of scripture from 1 Thessalonians, that shows the resurrection, rapture and destruction of the wicked all occur at His coming.


JLB

 

[Douglas Summers]

I think it a popular concept in post-trib theology to say that those who believe the Church is raptured before the trib will fall away when they find are still here when the final seven years begins, the Antichrist confirms a Middle East peace treaty etc.

The picture painted is that we will have been made soft and therefore set up for apostasy.

Certainly, if I'm honest, I would rather not be there when the judgements start to fall, even more, my young family. However, history teaches that God gives extra strength during times of persecution.

I believe we as Christians should be concentrating on the harvest, not prepping to survive the Tribulation. I don't post here much as I try to spend my "forum time" reaching out to some of the lost folk at "vigilant citizen forums" as I find that conspiracy minded people are at least asking spiritual questions (even if some of the answers they come up with are very doubtful!!!) Look me up if you go there - I'm "Red Sky at Morning" there.

Thanks NDC, I try to do that here, But there are a lot...not all, that have their own doctrines. Paul makes a point that he would rather preach where no one else has preached (I think for this very reason) (Rom. 15:19-21) (2 Cor. 10:16)

 

[Douglas Summers]

That is without question.

I find it interesting that you can’t agree on even the most basic points of scripture from 1 Thessalonians, that shows the resurrection, rapture and destruction of the wicked all occur at His coming.


JLB

Sorry JLB, I do not believe in your doctrine. It would be of no benefit to carry on.

 

[ezra]

Sorry JLB, I do not believe in your doctrine. It would be of no benefit to carry on.

in the Long run it really dont matter it will take place like God wants it to. just be ready

 

[ezra]

Popular theories/teachings like to tickle the ear and give one a feel good message, but deceives and robs one of truth. Many would rather believe all these end time pretrib Pastors for they have all made a great name for themselves,

thats not a correct statement many hold to pre trib that are by far ear ticklers 1 Thessalonians 5:9
The Day of the Lord
…8But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and the helmet of our hope of salvation. 9For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvationthrough our Lord Jesus Christ. 10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him.…
1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead--Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.

the teaching is Christ will take his church out .then at the end of 7 year tribulation he returns after the 7 year tribulation . as per my part i fail to understand why we could go through tribulation and suffer with the lost. a per end time events . fairly certain southern baptist teach pre trib many of them are by far ear ticklers. . as i have said i am in between pre and mid lean toward pre .but most important be ready... we are in tribulation as we speak.. is it part of the great tribulation ? i dunno but there is coming a time there will be a hell on earth wanting rocks to fall om them.men seeking death wanting to die but can not..... my question is seeing the description of his wrath why would God punish us along with the lost . i hear a lot of this o they tickle ears .simply be cause they dont hold to my doctrine

 

[JLB]

my question is seeing the description of his wrath why would God punish us along with the lost . i hear a lot of this o they tickle ears .simply be cause they dont hold to my doctrine

The Church is caught up together in the air with Christ, safely above the earth before He
Himself pours out the wrath of God upon the wicked.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:4

• For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them,

If we read what Paul taught the Church about these things, we see that the Church is caught up with Him in the air, and then He pours out the wrath of God upon the wicked.


Three things occur at His coming that unite us in our understanding about this doctrine.

At His coming:

1. The resurrection
2. The rapture
3. The wrath is poured out on the wicked: Antichrist destroyed.

 

[ezra]

The Church is caught up together in the air with Christ, safely above the earth before He
Himself pours out the wrath of God upon the wicked.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:4

• For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them,

If we read what Paul taught the Church about these things, we see that the Church is caught up with Him in the air, and then He pours out the wrath of God upon the wicked.


Three things occur at His coming that unite us in our understanding about this doctrine.

At His coming:

1. The resurrection
2. The rapture
3. The wrath is poured out on the wicked: Antichrist destroyed.

once again scriptures tells us this.. this has gone on for 6 pages who is right who is wrong is it pre trib mid trib after trib one moment every one is agreeing then the next post there is not a agreement ear tickling . who is right who is wrong

 

[JLB]

once again scriptures tells us this.. this has gone on for 6 pages who is right who is wrong is it pre trib mid trib after trib one moment every one is agreeing then the next post there is not a agreement ear tickling . who is right who is wrong

I didn’t mention pretrib or posttrib, but only pointed out the three main things that are indicated in Paul’s text from 1 Thessalonians and 2 Thessalonians.


Once we see these three things that happen at His coming, then a common understanding can more readily be established between us.


JLB

 

[ezra]

I didn’t mention pretrib or posttrib, but only pointed out the three main things that are indicated in Paul’s text from 1 Thessalonians and 2 Thessalonians.


Once we see these three things that happen at His coming, then a common understanding can more readily be established between us.


JLB

the things in scripture is agreeable because that is what they say..my reply is more of one in general . i am trying to see the disagreement . i use the pre mid after trib to bring out a point

 

[JLB]

the things in scripture is agreeable because that is what they say..my reply is more of one in general . i am trying to see the disagreement . i use the pre mid after trib to bring out a point

What do you disagree about the following.


The Church is caught up together in the air with Christ, safely above the earth before He Himself pours out the wrath of God upon the wicked.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:4

• For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them,

Three things occur at His coming that unite us in our understanding about this doctrine.

At His coming:

1. The resurrection
2. The rapture
3. The wrath is poured out on the wicked: Antichrist destroyed.

 

[ezra]

What do you disagree about the following.

lol hold the press

the things in scripture is agreeable because that is what they say..my reply is more of one in "general . " { i am trying to see the disagreement }. i use the pre mid after trib to bring out a point

shall we start over

 

[JLB]

lol hold the press

shall we start over

Ok, What do you agree with in the following.

The three points that come from the text.

Please tell me how to clarify my points, so that I am being clear.

Just because I see things in the text, doesn't neccesarily mean someone else will see these points within the text.

• The Church is caught up together in the air with Christ, safely above the earth before He Himself pours out the wrath of God upon the wicked.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:4

• For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them,

Three things occur at His coming that unite us in our understanding about this doctrine.

At His coming:

1. The resurrection: [the dead in Christ shall rise first]
2. The rapture: [Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them]
3. The wrath is poured out on the wicked: Antichrist destroyed. [then sudden destruction comes upon them]

JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

thats not a correct statement many hold to pre trib that are by far ear ticklers 1 Thessalonians 5:9
The Day of the Lord
…8But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and the helmet of our hope of salvation. 9For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvationthrough our Lord Jesus Christ. 10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him.…
1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead--Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.

the teaching is Christ will take his church out .then at the end of 7 year tribulation he returns after the 7 year tribulation . as per my part i fail to understand why we could go through tribulation and suffer with the lost. a per end time events . fairly certain southern baptist teach pre trib many of them are by far ear ticklers. . as i have said i am in between pre and mid lean toward pre .but most important be ready... we are in tribulation as we speak.. is it part of the great tribulation ? i dunno but there is coming a time there will be a hell on earth wanting rocks to fall om them.men seeking death wanting to die but can not..... my question is seeing the description of his wrath why would God punish us along with the lost . i hear a lot of this o they tickle ears .simply be cause they dont hold to my doctrine

I never said God's wrath would fall on those who are of Christ for God's wrath only falls on those who reject Christ. Those who are of Christ and still alive during the time of God's end of days wrath (tribulation) will be kept as per the instructions given in Isaiah 26:20, 21 (read the whole chapter) and Rev 12:1-6. We read in Matthew 24:31 that we are to endured until the end. This means the time in Rev 19 when Christ returns with His army of angels and destroys the iniquity here on earth of the beast and false prophet (son of perdition/last antichrist) casting them into the lake of fire. After binding Satan Christ sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather all of His together (alive and those asleep in their graves) as we are then caught up to meet Him in the air, Ezekiel 37:1-14; Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

Here is something to think about as even now is there a great falling away from truth. Read 2 Peter 9-18 as this is speaking about God's longsuffering and patience that He would that none should perish. The seven trumpet tribulation period is that of God's longsuffering and patience coming to an end. The purpose of His great wrath is in hopes all would turn back to Him, 2 Chronicles 7:14, but those who refuse will be the ones affected by the seven vile judgments as their names are not written in the Lamb's book of life and will be judged and cast into the lake of fire. It takes all of scripture from Genesis to Revelations to understand all the prophecies God has given us in order to have eternal life with Him.

 

[ezra]

I never said God's wrath would fall on those who are of Christ for God's wrath only falls on those who reject Christ. Those who are of Christ and still alive during the time of God's end of days wrath (tribulation) will be kept as per the instructions given in Isaiah 26:20, 21 (read the whole chapter) and Rev 12:1-6. We read in Matthew 24:31 that we are to endured until the end. This means the time in Rev 19 when Christ returns with His army of angels and destroys the iniquity here on earth of the beast and false prophet (son of perdition/last antichrist) casting them into the lake of fire. After binding Satan Christ sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather all of His together (alive and those asleep in their graves) as we are then caught up to meet Him in the air, Ezekiel 37:1-14; Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

Here is something to think about as even now is there a great falling away from truth. Read 2 Peter 9-18 as this is speaking about God's longsuffering and patience that He would that none should perish. The seven trumpet tribulation period is that of God's longsuffering and patience coming to an end. The purpose of His great wrath is in hopes all would turn back to Him, 2 Chronicles 7:14, but those who refuse will be the ones affected by the seven vile judgments as their names are not written in the Lamb's book of life and will be judged and cast into the lake of fire. It takes all of scripture from Genesis to Revelations to understand all the prophecies God has given us in order to have eternal life with Him.

perhaps but see i never said YOU said God's wrath would fall on those who are of Christ .... that was a comment on my view ..personally i dont see a 2nd chance once the Church is out of here .

 

[ezra]

Please tell me how to clarify my points, so that I am being clear.

Just because I see things in the text, doesn't neccesarily mean someone else will see these points within the text.

ho hum not one time did i say JLB i disagree .i made just a general comment and attached it to your post ..go back and read... its you and Doug who has the disagreement im just trying to see .i may agree with doug and i may not ..

 

[JLB]

ho hum not one time did i say JLB i disagree .i made just a general comment and attached it to your post ..go back and read... its you and Doug who has the disagreement im just trying to see .i may agree with doug and i may not ..

Yes I agree, which is why I asked you in a different way, so as to “start over”.

I asked what you agree with in my post.


Here it is again -


Ok, What do you agree with in the following.

The three points that come from the text.

Please tell me how to clarify my points, so that I am being clear.

Just because I see things in the text, doesn't neccesarily mean someone else will see these points within the text.

• The Church is caught up together in the air with Christ, safely above the earth before He Himself pours out the wrath of God upon the wicked.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:4

• For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them,

Three things occur at His coming that unite us in our understanding about this doctrine.

At His coming:

1. The resurrection: [the dead in Christ shall rise first]
2. The rapture: [Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them]
3. The wrath is poured out on the wicked: Antichrist destroyed. [then sudden destruction comes upon them]

JLB

 

[ezra]

Yes I agree, which is why I asked you in a different way, so as to “start over”.

I asked what you agree with in my post.


Here it is again -


Ok, What do you agree with in the following.

The three points that come from the text.

Please tell me how to clarify my points, so that I am being clear.

Just because I see things in the text, doesn't neccesarily mean someone else will see these points within the text.

• The Church is caught up together in the air with Christ, safely above the earth before He Himself pours out the wrath of God upon the wicked.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:4

• For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them,

Three things occur at His coming that unite us in our understanding about this doctrine.

At His coming:

1. The resurrection: [the dead in Christ shall rise first]
2. The rapture: [Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them]
3. The wrath is poured out on the wicked: Antichrist destroyed. [then sudden destruction comes upon them]

JLB

if it is scripture then i agree with it all