Realizing the bible was canonized by ecumenical councils over long periods of years....

Discussion in 'Apologetics' started by Windsong, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    :couch
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
  2. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

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    It's not a history book. It's not even a book. That's your first error. It's a collection of books, letters, poems and songs.

    Of course the work is completed. Jesus said "It is finished." But what you mean by fininshed and what I mean are likely two different things. Why would you bother with the Bible since it isn't relevant to you today (by your own words)? How can you be saved? By what authority? Where did you learn about it? Not the Bible because it's not for you. So whatever was said of salvation is not for you. Again, by your own words.

    What makes you think Christ sacrificed for you? Where did you get that? Certainly not the Bible as it's not a book written to you OR for you. You are hopelessly lost it seems. As we all are I suppose. Because that book wasn't written to any of us or for any of us.

    You're view of the Bible is about as far from Orthodoxy as one can get.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
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  3. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

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    He said that to THEM, not you. Why do you quote a book that isn't for you? Make up your mind.
     
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  4. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Im still making up my mind. I haven't decided yet. I might change my mind. I quoted that scripture for the people who believe he is still to return and it is for them.
     
  5. jasonc

    jasonc Member

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    Full Preterism leads to.whacky ideas
    No.judgement, nor return a spiritual return if that
     
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  6. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

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    It's completely off. Am shaking my head.
     
  7. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Paul said the dead in Christ will rise first then we who are alive and remain will be caught up with them in the clouds.

    If the dead in Christ are sleeping right now because the ressurection has not happened, that includes Paul because Paul lived 2000 years ago and also would be resting now until the ressurection, then what is the difference between those who are dead in Christ that will rise first, and Paul who is dead in Christ yet somehow he is still alive and will be caught up second with us, or the next generation wherever the ressurection may be, who are acturally alive and remain?
     
  8. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

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    You need to take this to end times forum.
     
  9. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Ok I will leave that alone. But you said i was way off and so i asked that question to see if you can answer.

    Maybe im just off on a couple things.
     
  10. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    What are people making Jesus out to be.

    Jesus said to the people he was talking with "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

    If Jesus said some of them standing there would not taste death, that means some would die before he returns and others would still be alive. Some tasted death, others didnt.

    So the some who were standing there still tasted death, just not before he come in his kingdom.

    It says what it says. Why am I wrong for accepting Jesus words for what he said to the people he was speaking with.

    What does not taste death mean.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
  11. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    I acturally had a change of mind because I have to look at it seriously. It might cause a bit of controversy but it needs to be taken serious.

    There is a lot of evidence that points to Jesus return in 70ad, even the Kingdom comes without observation there were signs given to the people Jesus was talking with they would see and witness.

    If Jesus come once to bear the sins of many and he would return a second time not to sin but to salvation for those who were waiting, then, if he returned like he told his diciples he would and gave them the signs and that generation, and people don't believe he returned , then its acturally rejecting his salvation. He came and returned in a generation and fullfilled all things in that generation like he said.
     
  12. jasonc

    jasonc Member

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    The first parouisa doesn't require a physical return.see Josephus on the account of tish ma bav
     
  13. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    OK, how about providing it?
     
  14. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    What about this one.

    Jesus said to his diciples some of them standing there would be persecuted and some of them standing there would see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

    Jesus words are evidence. Unless he is a liar.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  15. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    If you are going use scripture you need to cite chapter/verse......I was looking for historical/physical evidence of His 2nd coming.
    Rev 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen. ESV

    Now you have to admit, something like that would at least deserve a footnote in the history books........
     
  16. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Every eye did see him, even those who pieced him because he returned in there generation like he said he would.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  17. civilwarbuff

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    How do you know that? What books record that event?......it is no where in scripture. You would think John, the 'disciple Jesus loved' would at least make reference to it some where.
    KD, I hope you have come to this conclusion on your own and not by listening to some preacher who has been feeding you lies. Everyone can come to the wrong conclusion and correct themselves; divorcing ones self from a false teaching is more difficult because of the time and effort invested into it.
     
  18. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    I just re-read the scriptures. Instead of applying the scriptures to myself as i want them to say or believed as everyone brainwashed me to believe, i read them for what they do say and who they were speaking to and put it all together so i didnt make Jesus out to be a liar.

    Speak a scripture Jesus literally directly said to his diciples and every christian will try put you off and say it really means something else. Always throwing people off the truth.
     
  19. Edward

    Edward Member

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    Careful, your discernment is showing. You're pounding down the path Brother.
    Now ask yourself this. Are you a servant of Christ? Were the Apostles servants of Christ? What's the difference? God is no respector of persons. Make no mistake Brother...that entire book was written to YOU. :yes
     
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  20. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    As other people have pointed out to you why would you re-read something that does not apply to you by someone who is not directing their words at you and have it guide your beliefs and thinking? Since scripture is not directed at you how could you become convinced by it that the 2nd coming happened 2000 years ago? So where is the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth? Is it in N. Korea?.....Syria?......Texas & Florida? If Jesus is reigning here on earth, where is He? I mean, if every eye saw Him coming where is His throne located, Washington DC? Or after being seen did he just disappear again? Why does He allow evil to flourish in His Kingdom? If the 2nd coming has happened these questions should not have to be asked let alone answered.
     
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