Realizing the bible was canonized by ecumenical councils over long periods of years....

Discussion in 'Apologetics' started by Windsong, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Why should Jesus saying "there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God", run into huge theological study?. Is Jesus complicated?

    I'm not calling Jesus half pie or a liar. I believe Jesus and i believe he doesn't delay and i accept Jesus salvation.

    If people dont want to accept salvation because until the Son of Man returns there is no salvation, and they want to live under the Law of the flesh and be blameless under the Law, then thats there choice.

    But that's just the truth right?. Jesus come once to sacrifice for sin and his return is to bring salvation. So no return yet is no salvation, so must still live under the Law of the flesh and try be blameless, like Paul, a Jew who had the law, who shaved his head and gave a vow while eagerly waiting Jesus return.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  2. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    So KD, since you are living under the law have you made any sacrifices recently?.....that is what the law calls for when you sin, a blood sacrifice.
     
  3. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    I dont live under the Law of the flesh. To the pure all things are pure. How can we sin when we have been restored?

    Why would I oppress myself and let the flesh overcome?
     
  4. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    But it is what you said, that you live under the law of flesh...
     
  5. Nick

    Nick Staff Member Moderator

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    Perhaps you could elaborate?

    We should be careful not to take this too far off topic.
     
  6. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    I mean it as if people don't believe Christ has returned they still live under the Law so can be blameless, like Paul who was waiting for Jesus return why still under the law as he shaved his head and gave vow, if believe he has returned then take salvation and live free.
     
  7. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    I don't believe He has returned but I do believe I have salvation and am indwelt by the Holy Spirit......there is no way a person can mistake that experience........
     
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  8. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Christian:
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    But you still live under the Law right?.
     
  9. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    No, I live under Grace as do all believers.
     
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  10. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Christian:
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    But what about not sinning anymore?. Do you still believe the law stands like Paul said.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  11. Free

    Free Staff Member Moderator

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    How we see things makes coming to a proper understanding complicated. Note my response to this on the previous page.

    Jesus's not having returned has nothing to do with salvation.

    When do you think that Jesus returned?
     
  12. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Maybe its just my experience because Christianity put a burden on me and the Law. I was trying to be blameless in the flesh living under Gods grace.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  13. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    Sorry KD, but you are jumping all over the place and I am having trouble following your train of thought. Maybe this will help.....
    The Old Covenant was a set of “external regulations applying until the time of the new order” (Hebrews 9:10). Upon Jesus’ death and resurrection, the external regulations gave way to an internal change of heart (see Galatians 6:15). The Old Covenant was fulfilled in Christ (Matthew 5:17). “The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves” (Hebrews 10:1). “The reality . . . is found in Christ” (Colossians 2:17). The New Covenant involves a superior ministry (of Christ), is “established on better promises,” and is, in fact, “superior to the old [covenant]” (Hebrews 8:6).

    Even while the Old Covenant stood, God had planned the New Covenant. The two work together to show people their need for God and then to fulfill that need. The Old Covenant required people to please God, but no one can measure up to perfection, and the Old Covenant resulted in a string of failures. “Through the law we become conscious of our sin” (Romans 3:20). The Old Covenant established our guilt before God and our need for a Savior. The Old Covenant was never intended to save us; in fact, “the old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life” (2 Corinthians 3:6, NLT).
    https://www.gotquestions.org/old-covenant.html
     
  14. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Christian:
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    But until Jesus returns and brings salvation people try and live blameless, and because the flesh is corrupt its a burden. Like Paul who said over and over to be blameless till that day, saved but stand upright and be perfect dont sin as they were eagerly waiting Christs return, so the Law obviously still stands to those who are waiting his return.

    If it didn't stand then no one would need to repent.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  15. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    It is amazing because lust of the flesh is seen as a sin but its natural. Adam lusted Eve and he was spotless, Eve lusted the fruit and she was spotless.
     
  16. jasonc

    jasonc Member

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    Blameless in the tanach,didn't mean perfection only that person was forgiven and following the torah of God as best as he could.after the criss this means relying on the atonement of the blood .it's not about us bUT His work.this doesn't mean works to be saved,but work as evidence of salvation
     
  17. OzSpen

    OzSpen Member

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    My inderstanding is that the Council at Nicea was called to deal with the heresy of Arius - Unitarianism. Out of the Council came confirmation of the Trinity.

    By AD 170, parts of 22 NT books were available, known as Muratorian Canon (MC). You could do a comparison of MC & final canon of NT in AD 397 to see if there were any changes.

    If you want some history on these matters, read Phillip Schaff, The History of the Christian Church. It's available online.

    Oz
     
  18. Jim Parker

    Jim Parker Member

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    The councils were attended by the leaders of the church.
    Only bishops could vote.
     
  19. Sister Christian

    Sister Christian Member

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  20. Jim Parker

    Jim Parker Member

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    That is patently false.
    There is only ONE Gospel.
    Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God
    Rom 15:15-16 But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
    Rom 15:18-19 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has wrought through me to win obedience from the Gentiles, by word and deed, by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Holy Spirit, so that from Jerusalem and as far round as Illyr'icum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ,
    2Co 2:12 When I came to Tro'as to preach the gospel of Christ, ...
    2Co 10:14 For we are not overextending ourselves, as though we did not reach you; we were the first to come all the way to you with the gospel of Christ.
    Gal 1:7 not that there is another gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.

    If your church is teaching you that there are two Gospels, that church is in heresy.

    Run!!!

    But that's just my opinion.
    And what do I know.
    I'm just

    iakov the fool
    (beaucoup dien cai dau)


    DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.
     
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