Revelation 3:10

Discussion in 'End Times' started by Eugene, Sep 19, 2017.

  1. dirtfarmer

    dirtfarmer Member

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    hello Douglas Summers, dirtfarmer here

    I agree that the church has already been raptures(s
    hello Douglas Summers, dirtfarmer here

    I agree, I don't see the church in Revelation until chapter 20:6, when the statement: "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: and there are time that I even wonder if that is in reference to the Church.
     
  2. Douglas Summers

    Douglas Summers Member

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    kiwidan, Don't sit on the sideline waiting for men to agree. The living body of Christ is small compared to the magnitude of the visible church's. (the total of all that say they are Christians). If you agree with God of the state of man and call upon His name, you will be saved. The most weak and fallible man who trust in Christ has the same title and standing before God as the most illustrious saint. And that title and standing is saved. While our standing in Christ is instant upon faith, our state is another matter. We must grow in grace that we have received....not into grace, but in grace. Some things you may not understand, but keep the things you do understand, for the Lord is faithful and true to bring you to the finish, it is by faith we are saved...faith in the TRUTH.
    There are two things to be aware of that are false doctrines in some denominations: That Christ is not God (1 John 4:15-19) and works for salvation. (Gal. 3:1-5) Stay away from these lies.
     
  3. Douglas Summers

    Douglas Summers Member

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    Hi dirtfarmer, The first resurrection is not one event, it is over a period of time, (1 Cor. 15:22-24) Each at his own turn, Christ then the first fruits (Church) then those at His coming. The first resurrection has to includes those from the millennium reign who have passed.. The first resurrection in it's order, last until the great white throne judgment. (Rev. 20:4-6)
     
  4. dirtfarmer

    dirtfarmer Member

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    hello Douglas Summers, dirtfarmer here

    While I understand that Revelation 20:4-6 speaks of resurrection, bring back to life, my belief is that the firstfruits are his resurrection and the 500 that came out of the graves and witnessed in Jerusalem. Where are those 500 now? I don't really have a biblical answer. Anything that I could or would say would speculation. Where they part of the body of Christ?

    As to Revelation 20:4-6 this could be the fulfilling of the prophecy of Ezekiel 37:1-14 the valley of dry bones. I believe that Israel is at this present time the fulfilling of the prophecy and will culminate at the end of the tribulation when the 144,000 Israelites; 12,000 from each tribe that will be sealed and are the beginning of the earthly kingdom that was promised in Genesis to Israel.

    These are some of the reasons that I say that sometimes I don't see the Church, the body of Christ.

    In 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 is where I base my belief on the rapture of the Church
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
  5. Eugene

    Eugene Staff Member Moderator

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    I hope you don't mind me giving my answer to your question I wrote on another forum some time ago.
    Ephesians 4:9 (Now that he (Jesus) ascended, what is it but that He also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
    Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    Again just to clarify where we are; Jesus died and took the thief that day to paradise which was in the lower parts of the earth; it was called Abraham's bosom.

    Jesus was there for three days and three nights and according to 1 Peter 3:19-20 By which also He (Jesus) went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

    After that we read in Ephesians 4:8 When He ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Jesus led those that were in Paradise to heaven when He ascended for we read in 2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he (Paul) was caught up into paradise instead of it still being in the lower parts of the earth.

    The Church to my understanding began at Pentecost, which these following would not have been a part of.
    Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
    Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
    After this present Age of Grace, or Church Age, will come the Age of the kingdom.
     
  6. dirtfarmer

    dirtfarmer Member

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    hello Eugene, dirtfarmer here

    Thanks for your reply

    Where do you believe "Abraham's Bosom" is now? I read in scripture that those that die during the "Church age" are asleep in Jesus, not walking on the street of gold: 1 Thessalonians 4:14, " For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

    I agree that after the Church age, the Kingdom age begins, but there is sandwiched in between those 2 ages the 7 year tribulation.
     
  7. dirtfarmer

    dirtfarmer Member

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    hello Douglas Summers, dirtfarmer here

    Just to put a little clarity on the subject of the harvest, there is the early harvest(firstfruits) and then the latter(ingatherings-rapture), which is the main harvest.
     
  8. Eugene

    Eugene Staff Member Moderator

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    Before Jesus died and ascended there was no place in heaven for man.
    Joh 3:13. And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
    These are those of the Church that precede us to God's throne that have passed from this life, are absent from their body, and present with the Lord. 2 Cor 5:6 & 2 Cor 5:8. At that time their bodies will be caught up ahead of those alive being caught up, and are the cloud of witnesses (Heb 12:1) Jesus will bring with Him. 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    In Mat 28:18 Jesus was given all power and authority, but he did not exercise that power at that time (Heb 2:8). His reign begins when He receives His own throne in Rev 4:2 which will ensue with seven years of tribulation. Notice that this also occurs in the third viewpoint of things future, or which shall be hereafter of Rev 4:1.
    Some of the Church is present with Jesus occurs; the 24 elders in Rev 4:4 & the 4 beasts of Rev 4:6. During this present time Jesus walks among the candlesticks (the churches) judging us (Rev 1:20).
     
  9. Douglas Summers

    Douglas Summers Member

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    The partial resurrection in Jerusalem were OT saints (don't know why they were resurrected?). But they were not of the Church, because the Church had not been formed yet. It was still yet 50 or so days away. The difference in the Church and the OT saints has to do with the Holy Spirit. The OT saint could be filled with the Spirit, but it was never a permanent position. In the Church, the Holy Spirit is a permanent possession in direct relationship with Christ. The Church can never say (Psalms 51:10-12) as David said, ".........Do not take your Holy Spirit from me". We can grieve the Spirit in us or hinder it's work in us (1 Thes. 5:18-20) , but never void of it's dwelling in the believer, because we are SEALED with it. (Eph. 4:30).
     
  10. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    I dont need a messiah because the messiah has already been, he come 2000 years ago, and he reconciled man with God. I believe the scriptures. Why call on God when can walk with God.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
  11. Douglas Summers

    Douglas Summers Member

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    If you believe the Scriptures, then, "you must be born again" (John 3:1-11). We make God out to be a liar when we say we do not need Christ. Christ has asked us to do things while He is physically away, sending His Spirit to those whom HE CALLED that receive Him. (John 17:13-26) (Acts 9:1-16). You need the Lord in your life to have peace. (John 14:26-27)
     
  12. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Christ didnt ask us to do anything. He asked his diciples to do things and gave them the signs and gave them the spirit while he was away until he returns. We are given the testimony and record. I didnt have the Law and Jesus was only sent to the house of israel and told them they must be born again. Jesus was only speaking to the house of israel.
     
  13. Douglas Summers

    Douglas Summers Member

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    If you would read the Scriptures you would see that what you believe is not true (John 17:19-21) Yes, He was sent to Israel, But they rejected Him.....Then He called out the Church. All of this is explained in Scripture and it is not hidden. It is in plain sight for those who have eyes and ears.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017

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