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Roles for Husbands & Wives in Marriage

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felix

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Moderator note: The first 11 posts in this thread were pulled from another thread, because they went way off topic.

There is nothing wrong in having yourself a second wife or concubine while maintaining the first wife. While many simply disagree with what I say mainly due to modern cultural influences but scripture does not say it as a sin.

There are certain things which are clearly sinful and there are certain things which are not a sin.

  • You must not divorce your wife at any cost except sexual immorality. Many simply divorce for other reasons to marry another which is sinful. However, keeping the first and marrying the another is not sinful.
  • Sexual frustrations often lead people into temptations of pornography and prostitution which are sinful. However, marrying another without divorcing the first is never a sin. According to modern culture, a porn is not a crime but polygamy is considered a serious crime. But according to Bible, it's quite opposite: Watching porn is a serious sin but marrying a second is not a sin.
  • Marriage by itself is not defined by any govt law but as Christians we seek the definition from Bible. It is an covenant/agreement between a man and a woman before God - not before people or govt. So, it is not necessary to officially marry a second but it is still considered as marriage before God which is perfectly lawful in most of the countries in today's modern culture - provided the second is loyal to you and you loyal to her till the end and you treat her as wife. Is it called (mistress!?) - not sure but as long as she is only for you, and she doesn't commit adultery with any other man, then it is perfectly ok and it is not a sin.

Discuss these options with your wife first. If she is still not willing, then proceed with having some other woman while maintaining your first wife. This way, you can not only solve your problem but also be sinless before God.
 
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Re: Need help coping with a sexless marriage

I did not. I gave him a sound Biblical advise to solve his problem.

Felix, Jesus said unless a man forsake all that he as cannot be my disciple.
You are self serving your carnal desires if you choose a second wife. You know this is truth, your own conscience bares witness, you need to repent of this sinful lust serving deception you are pushing, and if you don't repent, then expect The father of life to bring you rapidly to judgment.
 
Re: Need help coping with a sexless marriage

Felix, Jesus said unless a man forsake all that he as cannot be my disciple.
I don't understand why you said this. Are you suggesting him to forsake his wife? Actually this verse is referring to possessions as 'huparchonta' means goods/possessions.

You are self serving your carnal desires if you choose a second wife. You know this is truth, your own conscience bares witness, you need to repent of this sinful lust serving deception you are pushing, and if you don't repent, then expect The father of life to bring you rapidly to judgment.

While I don't want to get into arguments here.. I want you to understand that there is no lust nor deception in marriage. It doesn't matter whether the marriage is first or second or 700 as Solomon it is still honorable as in Heb 13:4 and holy before God. You are ignoring scripture and taking culture teachings as I find absolutely zero reference in Scripture for what you are saying.

Since you said I need to repent, please let me know the sin in what I advised based on scripture.
 
Re: Need help coping with a sexless marriage

There is nothing wrong in having yourself a second wife or concubine while maintaining the first wife. While many simply disagree with what I say mainly due to modern cultural influences but scripture does not say it as a sin.

There are certain things which are clearly sinful and there are certain things which are not a sin.
While this may sound like a good answer to a man it really isn't.

"12 ...in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you" (Matthew 7:12 NIV1984)

Ask yourself, "is that what I would want my wife to do to me, find another outlet for her sexual desires if I had hangups (legitimate or not) and wasn't meeting them at home for her?"

Prolly not.

Unless you're prepared for your wife to cave into the next attraction she has to another man don't involve yourself in another sexual relationship. Even if she was okay with having another 'wife' around, she'll figure if you went outside the relationship, and it's okay, then it's okay for her to do it, too. There will be nothing to stop her if she gets into a tempting situation to do that herself.


Just hit five years this month, maybe this very day, since my wife and I last had sex. You can insert my name in place of yours when describing your situation (except for the massive amount of house chores you've undertaken, lol) and it would be my situation exactly.

I'm convinced this goes way beyond the externals, meaning just do some right things, create some right circumstances, be the right person, and all will be fixed. No, this is something much deeper and serious than that.

I could fill up a few pages of thoughts and observations on this. But I hardly know where to start. For now I'd just say, stay with your wife, back off from trying to 'win' her (without 'punishing' her) and learn to bring your body into godly subjection. As much as sex is near and dear to my heart it's purpose and mission in life is very limited and there are much more important things that need to be learned and lived in this experience. Not everybody gets this kind of chance to not hold a grudge and hate someone who regards you as an enemy when every fiber of your being wants to demand it's rights and lash out in revenge. God's kind of love, his 'agape', does not do that. And that is what we Christians have been called to do.
 
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Re: Need help coping with a sexless marriage

Dear Jethro,

The verse you quoted in Matthew 7:12 actually says,

"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

I am not suggesting to take someone else's wife. Neither it is scriptural for a women to take a man into marriage but a man takes a women to marriage from her father. Neither is it scriptural for a woman to issue any form of divorce but only a man can issue such on case of sexual immorality.

Of course scripture doesn't fit our culture right? So, we change the scripture (e.g, NIV) to fit our culture.

Coming to the heart of the matter, men and women think and feel very differently, esp, sex. A man cannot assume her lady is feeling the same way he thinks. While sex is a priority for men, it is not for women. The sex drive is also very different for men and women. Sex drive for females drops so rapidly after menopause but even a 100 yr old man will have the same sexual desire as he was in 16 yrs (assuming healthy subjects). This is why, Abraham married many others even after the age of 125 (death of Sarah).

While scripture says to wives to submit to their husbands, and if they don't, I don't see anything wrong is taking another wife which is scripturally valid. You must also not forget when God said He would have given David for more wives if he had asked Him instead of involving in adultery as in 2Sam 12:8. This is why I suggested, instead of having a urge for sex (the very reason for this post) and a total refusal from his wife, it is better for him to take another wife instead of having or falling into other temptations because of this sexlessness.

However, the OP wishes to stay with cultural upbringing and (scriptural interpretations? - not sure which Bible he uses) - to suffer and not behaving like what God wants man to be as per scriptures -i.e, love your wife does not mean despise your rule over them.
 
Re: Need help coping with a sexless marriage

Dear Jethro,

The verse you quoted in Matthew 7:12 actually says,

"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

I am not suggesting to take someone else's wife. Neither it is scriptural for a women to take a man into marriage but a man takes a women to marriage from her father. Neither is it scriptural for a woman to issue any form of divorce but only a man can issue such on case of sexual immorality.
And wouldn't it be wonderful if we could count on our wife who refuses to have sex with us to be obedient in regard to these matters? Do you see what I'm saying?


Of course scripture doesn't fit our culture right? So, we change the scripture (e.g, NIV) to fit our culture.
Who's changing scripture? We are to treat others the way we would want to be treated in the same given set of circumstances. Regardless of how you feel about it, if your spouse doesn't want your sexual fulfillment spread among many partners then you should not do that to them even if you think it's Biblically sanctioned to do so. Spiritual truth is much, much greater than just black and white words. "Do unto others" trumps any Biblical defense for legitimately indulging ones passions.



Coming to the heart of the matter, men and women think and feel very differently, esp, sex. A man cannot assume her lady is feeling the same way he thinks. While sex is a priority for men, it is not for women. The sex drive is also very different for men and women. Sex drive for females drops so rapidly after menopause but even a 100 yr old man will have the same sexual desire as he was in 16 yrs (assuming healthy subjects). This is why, Abraham married many others even after the age of 125 (death of Sarah).
This is probably true, but, no offense intended, I've learned to not put much credibility in your medical instruction (e.g., castration).

Actually, as an aging, but still virile 49 year old man, I can now see and understand the less testosterone driven sex drive of a female. I can honestly tell you that I can take it or leave it (and am presently cooperating with my wife's decision to leave it), yet I am still quite virile.

In regard to sexuality, natural self control comes with age. I don't need to have another wife for a sex drive that just by nature is changing as I get older. And I'm thankful for it. I think it absurd that anyone would complicate life by choosing to have more than one wife to fulfill a desire of the flesh that naturally comes under control, both physically and emotionally, later in life anyway.


While scripture says to wives to submit to their husbands, and if they don't, I don't see anything wrong is taking another wife which is scripturally valid.
Well, for us people in the western world where law prohibits it your argument is moot. And since we can't by law get married to more than one wife, any relationship we did start up would be nothing more than a sinful affair. And I don't want to hear an argument for doing the will of God over and above the laws of the land. You won't get much sex in jail...at least not the kind you would want to have by your own choosing.



You must also not forget when God said He would have given David for more wives if he had asked Him instead of involving in adultery as in 2Sam 12:8. This is why I suggested, instead of having a urge for sex (the very reason for this post) and a total refusal from his wife, it is better for him to take another wife instead of having or falling into other temptations because of this sexlessness.
Don't you realize that what Paul says about the temptations that arise from lack of sex are because of weakness? That truth is what made me drop this ridiculous belief that a man just has to have sex. If a man just has to have sex he's simply showing how weak he is. Read the passage there in 1 Cor. 7.



However, the OP wishes to stay with cultural upbringing and (scriptural interpretations? - not sure which Bible he uses) - to suffer and not behaving like what God wants man to be as per scriptures -i.e, love your wife does not mean despise your rule over them.
If you think it better to accept the weakness of sexual temptation then I guess that's what you better do...get another wife. And don't come complaining to us here in the forum when your wife decides it's okay for her to cave into sexual temptation outside of the marriage because you did. Okay?
 
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Re: Need help coping with a sexless marriage

And wouldn't it be wonderful if we could count on our wife who refuses to have sex with us to be obedient in regard to these matters? Do you see what I'm saying?

Nope. A wife cannot even take a vow on her own to God in the law when her husband refuses it. While we are not under the law, scripture no where teaches men to submit to women anywhere.

Who's changing scripture? We are to treat others the way we would want to be treated in the same given set of circumstances. Regardless of how you feel about it, if your spouse doesn't want your sexual fulfillment spread among many partners then you should not do that to them even if you think it's Biblically sanctioned to do so. Spiritual truth is much, much greater than just black and white words. "Do unto others" trumps any Biblical defense for legitimately indulging ones passions.

Wrong. It the cultural translation called NIV that says that - not the Scripture of God. The same verse occurs both in Matt 7:12 and Luke 6:31, and both refers as men NOT others. The reason is very clear. Neither scripture nor the prophets who wrote the scriptures no where underestimates or despises the authority God had given to men over women. Scripture does not compare men the same way it compares women. a woman spread among different partners is referred as a harlot irrespective of all the males being loyal to this one women. However, a man having different spouses who are loyal to this one man is acceptable before God.

When I became a "true" christian, the first thing I did is broke down the altars of cultural influences. So that I can read the Scriptures with a clear vision without being blinded by these.

This is probably true, but, no offense intended, I've learned to not put much credibility in your medical instruction (e.g., castration).

Actually, as an aging, but still virile 49 year old man, I can now see and understand the less testosterone driven sex drive of a female. I can honestly tell you that I can take it or leave it (and am presently cooperating with my wife's decision to leave it), yet I am still quite virile.

In regard to sexuality, natural self control comes with age. I don't need to have another wife for a sex drive that just by nature is changing as I get older. And I'm thankful for it. I think it absurd that anyone would complicate life by choosing to have more than one wife to fulfill a desire of the flesh that naturally comes under control, both physically and emotionally, later in life anyway.

The self-control I am talking about is purity before God not self-control according to men. Even a lustful thought in your mind is as sinful as adultery while marrying another and keeping the first is not. Natural self control does not comes with age. We learn from past mistakes and try to behave maturely which is not self control. Self-Control starts from the mind not the way we behave outside or while at alone.

Well, for us people in the western world where law prohibits it your argument is moot. And since we can't by law get married to more than one wife, any relationship we did start up would be nothing more than a sinful affair. And I don't want to hear an argument for doing the will of God over and above the laws of the land. You won't get much sex in jail...at least not the kind you would want to have by your own choosing.

I think you didn't read my post at #8.

Marriage by itself is not defined by any govt law but as Christians we seek the definition from Bible. It is an covenant/agreement between a man and a woman before God - not before people or govt. So, it is not necessary to officially marry a second but it is still considered as marriage before God which is perfectly lawful in most of the countries in today's modern culture - provided the second is loyal to you and you loyal to her till the end and you treat her as wife. Is it called (mistress!?) - not sure but as long as she is only for you, and she doesn't commit adultery with any other man, then it is perfectly ok and it is not a sin.

Don't you realize that what Paul says about the temptations that arise from lack of sex are because of weakness? That truth is what made me drop this ridiculous belief that a man just has to have sex. If a man just has to have sex he's simply showing how weak he is. Read the passage there in 1 Cor. 7.

It if God who said: (Mark 14:38) flesh is weak.
So, you want to fake your strength?

If you think it better to accept the weakness of sexual temptation then I guess that's what you better do...get another wife. And don't come complaining to us here in the forum when your wife decides it's okay for her to cave into sexual temptation outside of the marriage because you did. Okay?

If you do not want to accept the weakness of sexual temptations as in 1 Cor. 7, then you must not have even married at the first place as in 1Cor 7:7-9 which will make you even unqualified to be be able to post on this forum.

Just remember Paul is saying as a [G4774 συγγνώμη suggnome = fellow knowledge, i.e. concession].
(1Cor 7:6) But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment.
It is not from God, but his own knowledge.





Sorry, I am not trying to start a debate or being harsh but just trying to show how much we have changed from what the Scriptures actually speak.
 
Re: Need help coping with a sexless marriage

(Prov 31:3) Do not give your strength to women ..
If any men had given his strength to a women contrary to what scriptures teach, then he had to face the consequences of it.

Love your wife does not mean to despise the authority given by God over women to rule them. Men who despise this authority do not obey God and do not follow what scriptures teach.

Christ loved us by even giving His own life. He no where mentions about making us sit on His throne while He stepping down under us. Neither it is mentioned anywhere that He will obey the church. He will listen to the church out of love and do unto them ONLY if it is His will but NOT obey the church out of love. The same relationship between Christ and Church is compared to Husband and wife in Scripture. Husbands are NOT supposed to obey women. They are supposed to love and listen to their women. But it has to be a man's decision - just as it is Christ's decision for the Church - not the other way round.
 
Re: Need help coping with a sexless marriage

(Prov 31:3) Do not give your strength to women ..
If any men had given his strength to a women contrary to what scriptures teach, then he had to face the consequences of it.

Love your wife does not mean to despise the authority given by God over women to rule them. Men who despise this authority do not obey God and do not follow what scriptures teach.

Christ loved us by even giving His own life. He no where mentions about making us sit on His throne while He stepping down under us. Neither it is mentioned anywhere that He will obey the church. He will listen to the church out of love and do unto them ONLY if it is His will but NOT obey the church out of love. The same relationship between Christ and Church is compared to Husband and wife in Scripture. Husbands are NOT supposed to obey women. They are supposed to love and listen to their women. But it has to be a man's decision - just as it is Christ's decision for the Church - not the other way round.

Better Relationships

We're currently doing a series of messages at our weekend church gatherings based on Paul's letter to the Ephesians. This weekend we picked up some of Paul's thoughts for better relationships. These are often referred to as the ‘household codes.’ Paul addresses husbands and wives (Eph.5:21-33), parents and children (Eph.6:1-4), and finally masters and slaves (Eph.6:5-9). Just prior to this Paul noted that God calls us to live life carefully, knowing his will and making the most of every opportunity. We are not to get drunk with wine but we are to be continually filled with the Spirit. Paul describes the results of the Spirit-filled life as people whose lives are marked by singing, thankfulness, and mutual submission (Eph.5:15-20). Positioning ourselves to be continually filled with the Spirit is crucial to building the kind of loving relationships that God’s desires for us. Without the Spirit’s power and enablement we can easily degenerate into our old habits patterns of relating from a self-centred perspective.

Mutual Submission

Paul begins this section on relationships with a call for all believers to submit to one another (Eph.5:21). We are all called to self-giving love and humility modelled by Jesus himself. We are to consider others better than ourselves and to look to other people’s interests, seeking to serve them in any way we can (Gal.5:13. Phil.2:3-4. Rom.12:10). All believers are to place themselves under others in the spirit of humility. Unfortunately, for many the very word ‘submit’ implies a passive and weak approach to life. However, neither Jesus nor Paul was a weak person but they did choose to treat other people with respect and love. The call to mutual submission is the context for all that Paul says about marriage, parenting, and relationships between masters and slaves.

Marriage in the First Century

The society that Paul lived in was completely patriarchal (dominated by men). It was a terrible time for women as they were viewed as being inferior to men and were given relatively little freedom. They received minimal education, could not be witnesses in a court of law, had less economic independence, could not adopt children or make a contract, and typically were kept from public life. When girls married (usually between age twelve and sixteen), they were expected to take the religion of their husbands. They were either under their father’s, their husband’s, or some other male relative’s authority all their lives. Roman law gave husbands complete authority over their wives, who were in many ways seen as the husband’s possession.
Into this environment, where the devaluation of women was the cultural norm, the Christian faith brought amazingly good news for women through the gospel of the kingdom. Jesus allowed women to be his disciples, they were the first witnesses of his resurrection and were sent to proclaim to the men that he had risen, they received the outpouring of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost, they were given spiritual gifts to serve the church, and they ministered and led within the church community (it should be noted that any restrictions placed on women ministering in the early church were temporary and they were given within dysfunctional church communities, whereas in healthy environments, ministry was based on gifting and godliness, not gender). In fact, Paul boldly declared that, because of Christ, gender distinctions, though still existing, were no longer grounds for prejudice or discrimination with the community of faith (Gal.3:28).

Can you imagine the potential uproar that this new freedom for women may have caused within society at that time? Paul’s concern was always for the credibility and the advance of the gospel (see Titus 2:5). Interestingly, he didn’t attack or seek to overthrow the structures of how society worked in his time. For instance, he didn’t seek to abolish slavery, overthrow dictatorial Roman government, or overturn a patriarchal approach to relationships. His focus was primarily on how Christians should live out their faith with the context in which they found themselves (see Eph.6:5-9, Rom.13:1-7 and Eph.5:21-33). However, he did give his greatest challenges to the ones with the most power in that culture – husbands, parents, and masters. He pushed them towards love, kindness and consideration because of the grace that is in Christ Jesus.

Because Paul wrote at a time when wives were expected to submit to their husbands (in the same way that slaves were expected to obey their masters), he affirmed that arrangement (Eph.5:22-24, 33) but balanced it with a reminder to husbands that they were to always act in love, which would have directly affected the way that they expressed their authority (Eph.5:25-33). He also redefined the man’s leadership as being that of a servant who acts with self-giving love like Christ. Interestingly, Paul’s directions to the wives to submit and to the husbands to love are instructions given to all Christians as to how they should act towards each other.
Ref:mark Connor

[Tomorrow - Marriage Today]
 
Re: Need help coping with a sexless marriage

(Prov 31:3) Do not give your strength to women ..
If any men had given his strength to a women contrary to what scriptures teach, then he had to face the consequences of it.

Love your wife does not mean to despise the authority given by God over women to rule them. Men who despise this authority do not obey God and do not follow what scriptures teach.

Christ loved us by even giving His own life. He no where mentions about making us sit on His throne while He stepping down under us. Neither it is mentioned anywhere that He will obey the church. He will listen to the church out of love and do unto them ONLY if it is His will but NOT obey the church out of love. The same relationship between Christ and Church is compared to Husband and wife in Scripture. Husbands are NOT supposed to obey women. They are supposed to love and listen to their women. But it has to be a man's decision - just as it is Christ's decision for the Church - not the other way round.
Marriage God's Way (Pt.2)
Marriage Today

The Bible is the inspired word of God and it was given to guide us in our lives today. Our first task is ‘exegesis’, which is where we ask what God’s Word meant back then in the culture and time in which it was given. There are considerable cultural gaps between us and world of the Bible that need to be bridged. Our next task is ‘hermeneutics’ which is where we ask what God’s Word means today in our time and culture, which is very different to the context in which it was first given. Unless this is done properly, we can misuse the Scriptures by ignoring matters of cultural context (e.g. forcing women to wear hats in church based on 1 Cor.11).
Today we no longer have household codes, we do not have slaves, and we would not group wives, children and slaves together as philosophers did in the ancient world. Unfortunately, we still live in a culture that is still somewhat patriarchal, even in the church world, where suppression and even abuse of women frequently occurs. Like Jesus, the Christian church needs to champion the value and dignity of women everywhere. There is no doubt that the trajectory of the Scriptures is toward women finding full freedom in Christ as equal heirs of the grace of life with men. Just as we applaud the abolition of slavery, so we should seek justice for women.

So what does this mean for marriage? It is important for us to realise that no Scriptural text represents all that is to be said on any given topic, including marriage. There is an important principle of ‘first mention’ that needs to be considered. Jesus regularly talked about the way things were ‘in the beginning’ as God initially intended (e.g. Matt.19:4, 8). A full study of God’s intention for marriage from the beginning shows that God desired marriage to be an equal and mutual partnership between the husband and the wife (Gen.2:18). Men and women were both created in the image of God and they were both given a dominion mandate and a reproduction mandate (Gen.1:26-28). God’s original intention was that men and women work together in harmony in a partnership of interdependency, taking their rightful place as joint-heirs and co-rulers of creation. Before sin entered there was no hierarchy, no domination and no control in human relationships, including marriage. These damaging relating patterns entered as a result of the fall (see Gen.3:16). Christ comes to redeem us from the curse of sin and to return us to God’s intentions at the beginning.

I believe that a healthy marriage involves a husband and a wife who see each other as equal partners, enjoying life together, making decisions together, and empowering each other to serve based on their unique gifts and abilities. There is mutual love and respect. Marriages of mutual empowerment do not come naturally or automatically because the human tendency is to dominate or manipulate in order to get your own way. Working out an equal partnership takes time, effort and energy. However, the very process of working it through creates character and personal growth. Most importantly, it can be a powerful witness to the world.

Ref:Mark Connor
 
Re: Need help coping with a sexless marriage

Richasher777,

There are several errors in what you quoted from Mark Connor but I will nail down the key ones and the rest will fall automatically.

Eve was an after thought and created for man to help him even before the fall (Gen 2:18).

Richasher777 said:
I believe that a healthy marriage involves a husband and a wife who see each other as equal partners, enjoying life together, making decisions together, and empowering each other to serve based on their unique gifts and abilities.

This is unbiblical and unscriptural. Can you give me ONE verse that says the above in context of marriage?

(Eph 5:23-24) For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in everything.
 
Re: Need help coping with a sexless marriage

Richasher777,

There are several errors in what you quoted from Mark Connor but I will nail down the key ones and the rest will fall automatically.

Eve was an after thought and created for man to help him even before the fall (Gen 2:18).



This is unbiblical and unscriptural. Can you give me ONE verse that says the above in context of marriage?

(Eph 5:23-24) For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in everything.

In biblical times, the husband was the home-provider and the wife was the mother and home-maker (1Tim.5:8; Tit.2:1-5). Paul speaks of the husband providing for his own household and of the wife being a home-maker. However, in a patriarchal society, Jesus and Paul made significant steps towards returning to the model of ‘partnership’ that God intended from the beginning (see Gen.1-2). God’s ideal is that men and women together share the reproduction mandate (“be fruitful and multiplyâ€) and the dominion mandate (“let them ruleâ€). The image of God is “male and female†not “male over female.â€@#$%In our contemporary society, it is important that husbands and wives openly discuss their God-given roles and responsibilities together. These can be determined by the unique gifts of each person and the context in which each couple finds themselves. @#$%

How should decisions be made?

Decision-making should be done together in a spirit of mutual submission and accountability. Unity is essential, so as to avoid a divided household, confused children, and a potential marriage rift or drift. Husbands and wives should spend time in extended discussion and prayer together. It is also wise to receive counsel from others, as in the multitude of counsellors there is wisdom.@#$%

Paul described the husband as the ‘head’ of the home (1Tim.5:8 with Tit.2:1-5), which involves loving spiritual leadership. Of course, in healthy marriages there is mutual submission and respect (Eph.5:21). There is also recognition of the unique gifts and abilities of both the husband and the wife. Ideally, they should lead together in united partnership and do everything with a motive of love.@#$%@#$%

Christian marriages are a strong three-fold cord between a husband and wife and God. As the couple grows closer to God, they draw closer to each other, and visa versa. A strong spiritual foundation of faith and prayer only enriches any marriage relationship.
Ref:mark Conner
 
Re: Need help coping with a sexless marriage

Richasher777,

Is your church the decision maker or the Christ?

Just because a society changes to Matriarchy or Sodomic or whatever, does not mean Christians must become one or become a part of that culture. We have the instructions in Scripture and they are inspired by God.

Christ and Church don't mutually decide. Christ will listen but not obey the church. Christ is NOT under Church. There is no 100% partnership. It is unbibical to even consider church to be an equal partner with Christ.

  • Just as the women was created as a helper to man, so are we to His service.
  • Just as the man rule over women, so are we under the reign of Christ in His Kingdom.

Christ is the head of the church and man is the head of the women. If man forgets this, then he is not following scripture but trying to fit his culture into Bible.

Just as Christ died for His church out of love, every man should love his wife the same way. Just as we, the church submit to Christ in everything, every wife must submit to His husband in everything the same way. This is the biblical truth that every married person both men and women must understand to have a long lasting happy married life.

This does not mean both shouldn't discuss. Does the church not discuss her needs and concerns with Christ? Yes of course. Christ is very eager to listen to what His wife says and will do it IF it pleases Him. However, Church cannot make Christ to obey her or reject what Christ had decided to do.

This simple truth has been there in scripture for ages. Yet. How much have we twisted to make Bible fit our culture? Not understanding this simple truth is the core reason in many problems arising today in marriages.
 
Felix,

Choosing to not take another wife when your present wife doesn't want to sleep with you is not a sin. It does not amount to letting the woman rule over the man, and a man despising his authority over her. In fact, it's man choosing to rule over creation--his own body, and not being mastered by the power of created things the way God intended.

It is the weak man who does not have control of his body that MUST have sex. It is that weakness that caused Paul to issue his rabbinical judgment for married couples (who are weak) to not deprive each other. He said it is a concession that is to be made "because of your lack of self-control" (1 Cor. 7:5 NASB). Which is excellent counsel. But getting another 'wife' when you can't have sex? Very misguided counsel, IMO. And potentially a very big stumbling block to others in societies where polygamy is against the law and don't know what the heck you're doing with other women in your house.
 
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Felix,

Choosing to not take another wife when your present wife doesn't want to sleep with you is not a sin. It does not amount to letting the woman rule over the man, and a man despising his authority over her. In fact, it's man choosing to rule over creation--his own body, and not being mastered by the desires of created flesh.

It is the weak man who does not have control of his body that MUST have sex. It is that weakness that caused Paul to issue his rabbinical judgment for married couples (who are weak) to not deprive each other. He said it is a concession that is to be made "because of your lack of self-control" (1 Cor. 7:5 NASB). Which is excellent counsel.

This topic is about the roles of Husbands and Wives who married because of weakness maybe (according to you) and who haven't mastered whatever (according to you).

This topic is not about people who follow deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons (as in 1Tim 4:1-3) who speak about forbidding to marry.

But getting another 'wife' when you can't have sex? Very misguided counsel, IMO. And potentially a very big stumbling block to others in societies where polygamy is against the law and don't know what the heck you're doing with other women in your house.

Did I every mention anything about you in any of my posts? Never try to personalize if anyone disagrees but defend your position ONLY with Scripture.

If you wish to prove anything what I said is wrong, try doing so using ONLY Scriptures - not any society laws or public opinions.
 
If you wish to prove anything what I said is wrong, try doing so using ONLY Scriptures - not any society laws or public opinions.
It's interesting that you did not see the scriptural principle I alluded to in my post.


But anyway, with New Covenant spiritual glasses on one can see that divorce, and the taking of multiple wives, was a concession God made to man in consideration of the hardness of men's hearts (there are other examples of the law providing this consideration for the hardness of men's hearts under law, but which are now trumped by the new life of faith in Christ by the Holy Spirit).

Basically, if one wants to defend divorce and multiple wives they are simply showing the hardness of their heart. As spirit-filled Christians we should be striving to have and show tenderness and sensitivity of heart toward the feelings of others. That means not divorcing (except when the other person jumps ship first), and not insulting a woman by sharing sexual passion with other women, whether God approves of it or not, which I'm convinced he does not in this New Covenant where the fullness of the Holy Spirit makes men's hearts sensitive to the feelings of others, particularly their wives.

"9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”" (Matthew 19:19 NASB)

If it was okay to marry more than one wife, why is Jesus saying marrying another woman is adultery? Think about it.

One woman, one man, for life. That was God's best from the beginning, and is his best for sensitive, Spirit-filled people in this New Covenant who dwell in the glory of this New Covenant--the Holy Spirit and have his law "love your neighbor as yourself" (love as you'd want to be loved if you were in their circumstances) written on their hearts. To argue with this is to essentially show the hardness of one's heart.
 
If you wish to prove anything what I said is wrong, try doing so using ONLY Scriptures - not any society laws or public opinions.

Try broaching this subject with your wife, and see what opinion she has about it. If you live through the encounter, you may be able to report back here on what her reaction was. I love my wife, but having 2 wives is not going to be all you apparently think it's going to be cracked up to be. Just because some in the Bible had multiple wives doesn't mean that's what God intended. I seem to remember that multiple wives is what ultimately set Solomon up for failure. Just sayin'!
 
It's interesting that you did not see the scriptural principle I alluded to in my post.


But anyway, with New Covenant spiritual glasses on one can see that divorce, and the taking of multiple wives, was a concession God made to man in consideration of the hardness of men's hearts (there are other examples of the law providing this consideration for the hardness of men's hearts under law, but which are now trumped by the new life of faith in Christ by the Holy Spirit).

Basically, if one wants to defend divorce and multiple wives they are simply showing the hardness of their heart. As spirit-filled Christians we should be striving to have and show tenderness and sensitivity of heart toward the feelings of others. That means not divorcing (except when the other person jumps ship first), and not insulting a woman by sharing sexual passion with other women, whether God approves of it or not, which I'm convinced he does not in this New Covenant where the fullness of the Holy Spirit makes men's hearts sensitive to the feelings of others, particularly their wives.

"9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.â€" (Matthew 19:19 NASB)

If it was okay to marry more than one wife, why is Jesus saying marrying another woman is adultery? Think about it.

One woman, one man, for life. That was God's best from the beginning, and is his best for sensitive, Spirit-filled people in this New Covenant who dwell in the glory of this New Covenant--the Holy Spirit and have his law "love your neighbor as yourself" (love as you'd want to be loved if you were in their circumstances) written on their hearts. To argue with this is to essentially show the hardness of one's heart.

  • Did I mention anywhere in my posts to divorce and marry another?
  • Why are you portraying the verse what Jesus said wrongly by removing divorce from the verse?
 
Try broaching this subject with your wife, and see what opinion she has about it. If you live through the encounter, you may be able to report back here on what her reaction was. I love my wife, but having 2 wives is not going to be all you apparently think it's going to be cracked up to be. Just because some in the Bible had multiple wives doesn't mean that's what God intended. I seem to remember that multiple wives is what ultimately set Solomon up for failure. Just sayin'!

The issue of having two wives is not something that all wants or likes just as we read in Ruth. Is it wrong to say that God never intended as we can she He gave specific laws in Torah regarding multiple wives regulating it and says to David to give Him more if the existing is not enough.

I am blessed with my wife and 2 daughters and I currently have no requirement for marrying another. This does not mean I had to embrace cultural influence and ignore scripture. My entire argument is not about wanting people to marry another but rather providing what scripture actually says.
 
Moderator note: The first 11 posts in this thread were pulled from another thread, because they went way off topic.

There is nothing wrong in having yourself a second wife or concubine while maintaining the first wife. While many simply disagree with what I say mainly due to modern cultural influences but scripture does not say it as a sin.

There are certain things which are clearly sinful and there are certain things which are not a sin.

  • You must not divorce your wife at any cost except sexual immorality. Many simply divorce for other reasons to marry another which is sinful. However, keeping the first and marrying the another is not sinful.
  • Sexual frustrations often lead people into temptations of pornography and prostitution which are sinful. However, marrying another without divorcing the first is never a sin. According to modern culture, a porn is not a crime but polygamy is considered a serious crime. But according to Bible, it's quite opposite: Watching porn is a serious sin but marrying a second is not a sin.
  • Marriage by itself is not defined by any govt law but as Christians we seek the definition from Bible. It is an covenant/agreement between a man and a woman before God - not before people or govt. So, it is not necessary to officially marry a second but it is still considered as marriage before God which is perfectly lawful in most of the countries in today's modern culture - provided the second is loyal to you and you loyal to her till the end and you treat her as wife. Is it called (mistress!?) - not sure but as long as she is only for you, and she doesn't commit adultery with any other man, then it is perfectly ok and it is not a sin.

Discuss these options with your wife first. If she is still not willing, then proceed with having some other woman while maintaining your first wife. This way, you can not only solve your problem but also be sinless before God.

Felix question for you, how long have you been married?
 
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