Roman Catholic Church Catechism English Translation 1994

[bibleberean]

The apostles would not want to be called "fathers" of the church as we only have one Father.

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

The apostles founded the church based upon direct revelation from the Holy Spirit.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

...John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Notice it is Jesus that is to be given the glory not the false Cahtolic Mary!

The rosary that the Catholic false Mary claims we need to pray and the lie that she was sinless and Assumed into heaven is a lie...

The Catholic Popes and saints did not found the church. They are not the fathers of true believers.

The foundation of the church has been laid and completed.

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

The false doctrines of the Cathechism should not be followed.

 

[thessalonian]

The apostles would not want to be called "fathers" of the church as we only have one Father.

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Well Paul did admit that he was a sinner so I suppose you will call this a sin of his. I have had protestants do that with this verse.

1Cor.4
[15] For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

Get that. Paul called himself a father. Blaphemy? Or do you have Matt 23:9 wrong. Was Jesus perhaps saying that God the Father is the ultimate father through whom all that we have comes. If we look to anyone as father, it is subordinate to the ultimate father? That's my take on the verse. The Bible all over says "honor your FATHER and mother". Was Jesus denying that commandment.

Some of this eisegesis you guys do really looks silly with a birds eye view of the Bible. Take a step back just once and question what you think.

blessings

 

[bibleberean]

1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

gennaw gennao ghen-nah'-o

from a variation of 1085; to procreate (properly, of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively, to regenerate:--bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.

The apostles founded the church through the teachings of Christ by the Holy Ghost.

The thing that amazes me most by non-Christian Catholics is how they make the bible contradict itself. They will totally ignore the meaning of Christs words throughout the Old and New Testament and twist other scriptures to justify their idolatry, false prophets, false teachers and unbiblical doctrines.

The Popes and the false saints of the harlot church are not "fathers" or founders of the church.

The apostles had a special place in the laying of the foundation of the church. The Popes and magesterium of the false Babylonian church of Rome have no such office but are liars and false prophets.

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.


The apostles were eye witnesses of the resurrected Christ. The Popes are mouth pieces for Satan.

Acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

Acts 1:16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

Acts 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

Acts 1:21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Paul made it clear that he was a "special apostle" to the Gentiles and had seen the Lord.

1 Corinthians 9:1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

Origin, Augustine and others did not found the church. They are wrongly called "fathers" by Catholics and Protestants alike...

This fraud was not an apostle nor is he an ongoing founder of the church!

He was a priest of Baal and worshipper of the "Queen of Heaven".

According to Roman Catholics these words of Christ have no real meaning.

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

 

[bibleberean]

The Popes want you to follow them blindly.

Vatican II

"The infallibility, however, with which the divine redeemer wished to endow his Church in defining doctrine pertaining to faith and morals, is co-extensive with the deposit of revelation, which must be religiously guarded and loyally and courageously expounded. The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful -- who confirms his brethren in the faith (cf. Lk. 22:32) -- he proclaims in an absolute decision a doctrine pertaining to faith and morals." (Vol. 1, p. 380)

"We believe in the infallibility enjoyed by the Successor of Peter when he speaks ex cathedra as shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, an infallibility which the whole Episcopate also enjoys when it exercises with him the supreme magisterium." (Vol. 2, p. 392)

Check your brain and bible at the door...

"This loyal submission of the will and intellect must be given, in a special way, to the authentic teaching authority of the Roman Pontiff, even when he does not speak ex cathedra in such wise, indeed, that his supreme teaching authority be acknowledged with respect, and that one sincerely adhere to decisions made by him, conformably with his manifest mind and intention ...." (Vol. 1, p. 379)

Rome teaches a false gospel...

Paul made sure that we understood that even the apostles were not to be followed if they did that.

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Paul wanted the people to search the scriptures to make sure that what he was teaching was true...

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Martin Luther, Calvin, Knox and especially not the false prophets of the RCC and OC Churches are founders of the church.

All must stand and fall by the scriptures. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar and deceiver.

 

[thessalonian]

All must stand and fall by the scriptures. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar and deceiver.

I hope your landing isn't too hard.

 

[Solo]

All must stand and fall by the scriptures. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar and deceiver.

I hope your landing isn't too hard.

You better worry about yourself first. BB has stated more truth in one thread than you have in the entire forum. Of course you don't need anything other than the pope to tell you that your ok.

 

[thessalonian]

All must stand and fall by the scriptures. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar and deceiver.

I hope your landing isn't too hard.

You better worry about yourself first. BB has stated more truth in one thread than you have in the entire forum. Of course you don't need anything other than the pope to tell you that your ok.

God bless you solo.

 

[bibleberean]

False teachers and prophets and their lying visions.

Quotes from the following occult Catholic website

http://7dolors.com/page8passion.htm

"The Chaplet of the Holy Wounds

Using your Rosary Beads say the following on the large beads:

'Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Wounds
of Our Lord Jesus Christ - to heal the wounds of our souls.'
(300 days indulgence each time)

On the small beads:
'My Jesus, pardon and mercy -
Through the merits of Thy Holy Wounds.'


(300 days indulgence each time)

Sister Mary Martha Chambon, a humble lay Sister of the Visitation Order of Chambery, France, who died in the odor of sanctity, March 21st, 1907, received these two invocations from Our Lord Himself, as she affirmed, and with them a double MISSION to adore and invoke the Sacred Wounds unceasingly and to revive this devotion in the hearts of creatures.

Our Lord Said to her:

"The soul who during life has honored and studied the Wounds of Our Lord Jesus Christ, and has offered them to the Eternal Father for the souls in Purgatory, will be accompanied at the moment of death by the Holy Virgin and the angels; and Our Lord on the Cross all brilliant in glory will receive her and crown her."

BB comments:

Occult rituals promoted by devils.

Catholics will not let their false Christ off the cross.

The true Jesus was taken off the cross, placed in a tomb and then rose from the dead on the third day.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

[thessalonian]

ppp

 

[thessalonian]

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9301fea3.asp

"But we shouldn't pray to them!"


But some would protest, "Not in prayer! We mustn't pray to any creature in heaven! God forbid we should ask heavenly dwellers to pray for us or give us anything!" Well, the Patriarch Jacob had a wrestling match with an angel, conversed with him, and asked him for his blessing (Gen. 32:23-30). That's prayer to a creature, asking for something. Paul says the Church is Christ's Body. He is eloquent about our need for one another (1 Cor. 12:14-26). We are members of one another (Eph. 4:25).

This family unity is not interrupted by physical death. In fact, Scripture says that baptism is the moment of our true and meaningful death. It is then that we die and are raised to newness of life in Christ (Rom. 6:3-11). "For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God." (Co!. 3:3). Physical death is only passage from this world to the next; it does not separate us from the Lord (Rom. 8:38-39). It but marks the moment "when Christ your life appears - then you too will appear with him in glory" (Co!. 3:4). We are the Lord's both in this life and in the next (Rom. 14:8), because he is our head and we are his members and members of one another. The Bible famously asks, "Death, where is your victory?" (1 Cor. 15:55). But CRI denies that we can pray to our fellow members of the Mystical Body in heaven. They cannot heed us or take an interest in us or pray for us or in any way serve us. They are bereft of ministry.

CRI's false doctrine awards physical death a monumental victory over us, over them, and over Christ. It separates us from our Mother and from our brothers and sisters in Christ, fellow- members whom we need (1 Cor. 12:20,21,27).


Who the saints are


Baptized members of the Church are called "saints" or "holy ones" in the New Testament. This word (hagioi in Greek) is also used of the saints in heaven (Col. 1:12, Eph. 2:19, Rev. 18:20). The Greek word represents the Hebrew qedoshim, which is used of the saints in heaven in three places in the Old Testament (Zech. 14:5, Ps. 89:6, Dan. 7:22). The saints in heaven, in the persons of the elders in Revelation 5:8, are shown offering to God the prayers of the saints on earth. This activity of the elders is intercession by the saints and angels (Rev. 8:3-4) in heaven on behalf of us on earth.

When Christ teaches us to pray, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven," he holds up for our imitation the behavior of the saints in heaven, who do his will perfectly. Doing God's will means loving him and loving others as we love ourselves (Matt. 22:36-40). Because the saints are our models of this twofold love, they too must love God and others. What others? Every other human being, no matter who or where, but especially their fellow members of the family of the faith (Gal. 6:10). How can they show their love for us? By caring for our needs. And how can they do this? By praying for us. If they could ignore this love for us, they could not love God nor remain with him in heaven, because the two loves cannot be separated. The Bible says, "This is the commandment we have from him: Whoever loves God must also love his brother" (1 John 4:21). Scripture cannot be broken - in this world or the next.

The notion that the redeemed in heaven are excused from concern for their brothers and sisters on earth, that they can know nothing of us and do nothing for us, is quite simply indecent. A theology which proposes such selfishness and spiritual paralysis as our heavenly destiny is shameful and unworthy, both of God's love and our human dignity.

 

[Gary]

Baptized members of the Church are called "saints" or "holy ones" in the New Testament.

Then why does the RCC go through huge process to grant "sainthood" to people AFTER their death? Can you still not see your error?

Regards
saint Gary

 

[thessalonian]

Baptized members of the Church are called "saints" or "holy ones" in the New Testament.

Then why does the RCC go through huge process to grant "sainthood" to people AFTER their death? Can you still not see your error?

Regards
saint Gary

The process is not to make them saints. It simply declares that they did in fact persevere in grace and went to heaven. They are not granting sainthood as in at the moment of the canonization the one who is canonized at that moment becomes a saint. They are saying the person persevered as a saint to the end of life died a saint and is in heaven with Christ. The process is to examine the fruits of their lives that this may be determined with certainty. So it is not me or Catholic.com that is in error. You do not know Catholic theology and yet you claim it to be in error as if you do. I know, another insult. . The Catholic doctrine regarding sainthood is that of the communion of saints which includes those on earth who are members of the body of Christ, those in purgatory (also members of the body, for death does not separate from the love of God) and those in heaven.

 

[Gary]

So by your logic only the RCC can decide who is in heaven.

Secondly, your attempted explanations means that Paul was wrong in addressing fellow-believers as saints while they were still alive. Did Paul know which of them was to "persevere in grace"? He addressed them all as saints.

No wonder we get so many Roman Catholics who join our church who had no idea about assurance, being born-again.... and who were trying to earn their salvation.

.

 

[Gary]

The Catholic doctrine regarding sainthood is that of the communion of saints which includes those on earth who are members of the body of Christ, those in purgatory (also members of the body, for death does not separate from the love of God) and those in heaven.

Has this always been true? Can anyone be a saint if they are OUTSIDE the RCC? i.e. can you be saved outside the RCC? Can you be a "member of the body of Christ" without being a member of the RCC?

Please explain.

.

 

[thessalonian]

So by your logic only the RCC can decide who is in heaven.

Secondly, your attempted explanations means that Paul was wrong in addressing fellow-believers as saints while they were still alive. Did Paul know which of them was to "persevere in grace"? He addressed them all as saints.

No wonder we get so many Roman Catholics who join our church who had no idea about assurance, being born-again.... and who were trying to earn their salvation.

.

Gary, your rattling off the propaganda that Protestants have pumped in to their heads in order to decieve them. Now I believe I have an outstanding question or two from you so I am not going to waste my time with yours. Especially since you did not bother to read my post close enough to represent it correcly. You took it upon yourself to twist it and distort it. This is how you win Catholics over to your little sect and fill the collectoin baskets along with the lie of OSAS. Go to the OSAS thread. I've made enough arguements there and have dozens more as to why OSAS is a lie.

May God Bless you and enlighten you to the fullness of the truth.

 

[thessalonian]

The Catholic doctrine regarding sainthood is that of the communion of saints which includes those on earth who are members of the body of Christ, those in purgatory (also members of the body, for death does not separate from the love of God) and those in heaven.

Has this always been true? Can anyone be a saint if they are OUTSIDE the RCC? i.e. can you be saved outside the RCC? Can you be a "member of the body of Christ" without being a member of the RCC?

Please explain.

.

Your baiting in order to twist and distort some more. Answer the outstanding questions I have for you in the blessed among women thread. I'll not waste my time further otherwise.

 

[Gary]

The RCC obviously have to make arguments that OSAS is not true... how else did the RCC get followers into the confessional and get its members to pay penance (with money) to secure their salvation!

Very sad. The RCC "god" is so weak that he cannot protect His own.

But Paul thought differently.

And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. ROMANS 8:30

.

 

[Gary]

So by your logic only the RCC can decide who is in heaven.

Secondly, your attempted explanations means that Paul was wrong in addressing fellow-believers as saints while they were still alive. Did Paul know which of them was to "persevere in grace"? He addressed them all as saints.

No wonder we get so many Roman Catholics who join our church who had no idea about assurance, being born-again.... and who were trying to earn their salvation.

.

Gary, your rattling off the propaganda that Protestants have pumped in to their heads in order to decieve them. Now I believe I have an outstanding question or two from you so I am not going to waste my time with yours. Especially since you did not bother to read my post close enough to represent it correcly. You took it upon yourself to twist it and distort it. This is how you win Catholics over to your little sect and fill the collectoin baskets along with the lie of OSAS. Go to the OSAS thread. I've made enough arguements there and have dozens more as to why OSAS is a lie.

May God Bless you and enlighten you to the fullness of the truth.

God blesses me every time you insult me Thessalonian.... so thanks!

I notice you never addressed my original posts in the OSAS thread. But it matters not.... many others showed that your arguments did not hold water.

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 262#186262
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 263#186263

 

[thessalonian]

God blesses me every time you insult me Thessalonian.... so thanks!

Sigh.

[/quote]I notice you never addressed my original posts in the OSAS thread. But it matters not.... many others showed that your arguments did not hold water.[/quote]

They have? Of course you would think so. There's alot I have posted you have not addressed and in fact you have addressed none of it adequately. You have either distorted Catholic teaching or rather than address what I have asked slid off in to tangential issues. I suppose you will say that is another insult.

 

[thessalonian]

The RCC obviously have to make arguments that OSAS is not true... how else did the RCC get followers into the confessional and get its members to pay penance (with money) to secure their salvation!

Very sad. The RCC "god" is so weak that he cannot protect His own.

Very sad that sinners repent of their sins to Christ isn't it. So sad that there is great rejoicing in heaven over one repentant sinner who enters that confessional and asks God's mercy. It is not our God who is weak. It is us and he makes us stronger day by day. Do you claim that you don't sin. That God doesn't allow you to. I hope not. So is Peter Kreft's God weak? No avoidance please.

But Paul thought differently.

And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. ROMANS 8:30

So there is no need to repent from sin is what you are saying. ? I sure hope not.