Good luck there. I predict this thread will take the path of the innumerable others before it.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
salvation......
- Thread starter gr8grace3
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To put an end to all the nonsense of going back and forth, about what biblical words and phrases mean, could the Staff define the meaning of these words and phrase once and for all?
Yes, I have a dream, that we will stand on the the whole counsel of scriptures. The most critical doctrine in the scriptures: The salvation of the soul; eternal life.
This will start with defining what biblical phrases actually mean:
Act_2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
JLB
Yes, I have a dream, that we will stand on the the whole counsel of scriptures. The most critical doctrine in the scriptures: The salvation of the soul; eternal life.
This will start with defining what biblical phrases actually mean:
- Inherit the kingdom of God.
- Believe
- Lost vs Found
- Salvation through Faith
- Death; The context of eternal death vs natural death
- The resurrection of the dead in Christ
- The Judgement seat of Christ
- His own servants
- Departing from the faith
Act_2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
JLB
Only the staff can put an end to the never ending circular reasoning that ensues from misrepresenting of foundational biblical doctrine, and the definitions of bible words and phrases.
Invitation to any and all Mod's and Staff at CF.Net to evaluate this post and the scripture presented, please comment.
Please will the staff comment.
4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7
Can one of His sheep become lost?
Jesus uses plain speech so everyone will understand:
This is just one on many teachings from the Lord that put's an end to the OSAS doctrine.
Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.
Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.
Luke 15:10
Luke 15:32
JLB
Invitation to any and all Mod's and Staff at CF.Net to evaluate this post and the scripture presented, please comment.
Please will the staff comment.
4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7
Can one of His sheep become lost?
- I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Jesus uses plain speech so everyone will understand:
- A lost sheep has returned to being sinner [unbeliever] in need of repentance.
- The sheep must repent in order to be "found" or "saved", just like an unbeliever must repent to "saved" or "found"
- Jesus does not force the lost sheep to repent, any more that an unbeliever.
This is just one on many teachings from the Lord that put's an end to the OSAS doctrine.
Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.
Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.
- Lost Sheep:
- Lost Coin:
Luke 15:10
- Prodigal Son
Luke 15:32
JLB
Good luck there. I predict this thread will take the path of the innumerable others before it.
Only the staff can put an end to this never ending debate over salvation, and whether one of His sheep can indeed become lost, and what and what one of His sheep must do, to be reconciled back to Him, by making this teaching to be a permanent part of the Statement of Faith.
Thanks, JLB
really ? It is not up to staff to interpret Scripture to the membership. This site is open to opposing views that fall under the umbrella of Christianity.
This is my view not necessarily CFnet's. Having seen/read Scriptures that can be interpreted to support either side of OSAS , both views are with in the realms of Christianity...
Follow the TOS have a discussion with out treating the Scriptures as if they are politics and members as they are the enemy. Both sides along with anyone in between
This is my view not necessarily CFnet's. Having seen/read Scriptures that can be interpreted to support either side of OSAS , both views are with in the realms of Christianity...
Follow the TOS have a discussion with out treating the Scriptures as if they are politics and members as they are the enemy. Both sides along with anyone in between
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
I'm not going to directly engage with anything others post other than to say what I say and leave it at that. I honestly believe there's a lot of misunderstanding going on when it comes to this issue and it happens on both sides. You will never settle this. But it seems you must be right so you won't let it go. I have a view I'm happy with. God saves, God keeps, and I'm not going to entertain changing that view. It's unproductive and in many ways, destructive. How many babies in Christ have you discouraged with your words of losing salvation? I prefer to encourage my brothers and sisters into the faith unto good works. I rather prefer putting my focus on running the race with endurance and encouraging others to do likewise. Keep on keeping on. Stay in the word. Renew your mind. Do the things worthy of your calling. Don't get locked up in endless controversies. They produce strife. Have you noticed it's the same players that engage with this topic over and over? Where has it gotten you other than endless hours of wasted time? And yet here we are once again.
Theologians have argued this issue for many years and have gotten nowhere. It's funny that one poster suggests we consider the whole council of God in this issue as if he is the only one to do so. People deserve more credit than that. We do have to try to sort out verses that seem to say different things. If I'm adopted as a son, I'm in the family. I'm grafted in. I'm sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. There are so many verses that scream out eternal security. Then there are others that seem to suggest the opposite. And yet each side thinks they have a slam dunk case. Nothing is ever that easy when it comes to God's word. I think he wants us to struggle and do the work to understand the depth of His plan of salvation.
There's a book, Four Views Of Eternal Security, which I own and have read parts of and am currently reading again. It's interesting to see how thought on this issue has developed over the years. And yet it's still not settled. That should inform us of the difficulty of getting the questions before us right. People who spend their lives studying God's word in depth cannot agree on this issue! What makes you think you have it all wired?
No one has a perfect theology. If you think you do, you are deceived. Stop this endless nonsense and arguing over something that you will never settle. (I know you won't take this advice). Find the positives in the body and encourage one another. Respect the differences in the body. It's not your job to correct every "perceived" error. Your call is to love one another. Do that.
Here is a good book to read. "Rethinking Retirement by John Piper." I read it and will read it again. I want to "finish well" the race. So now that I'm retired, what has God in store for me to further serve? Interestingly, I read this book (32 pages) because I am thinking about what to do with myself now that I am no longer teaching school. But Piper actually goes into this topic. It's interesting how he handles it.
That said, have fun, be respectful, and remember you are talking to brothers and sisters in Christ. I'm not perfect at this either but I do know when I'm not being kind.
This me now me as a mod. Just a reminder. The mods watch these threads very closely. So far, many of the OSAS threads have gotten closed for one reason or another. If you insist on engaging in this conversation, that's fine. BUT, since you are insistent that your position follows God's word, then follow these as well:
Colossians 4:6 Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
Romans 12:10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves.
Romans 14:13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.
1 Corinthians 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.
Ephesians 4:2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.
1 Peter 3:8 Live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble.
Philippians 2:3-5 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus.
Be blessed!
Theologians have argued this issue for many years and have gotten nowhere. It's funny that one poster suggests we consider the whole council of God in this issue as if he is the only one to do so. People deserve more credit than that. We do have to try to sort out verses that seem to say different things. If I'm adopted as a son, I'm in the family. I'm grafted in. I'm sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. There are so many verses that scream out eternal security. Then there are others that seem to suggest the opposite. And yet each side thinks they have a slam dunk case. Nothing is ever that easy when it comes to God's word. I think he wants us to struggle and do the work to understand the depth of His plan of salvation.
There's a book, Four Views Of Eternal Security, which I own and have read parts of and am currently reading again. It's interesting to see how thought on this issue has developed over the years. And yet it's still not settled. That should inform us of the difficulty of getting the questions before us right. People who spend their lives studying God's word in depth cannot agree on this issue! What makes you think you have it all wired?
No one has a perfect theology. If you think you do, you are deceived. Stop this endless nonsense and arguing over something that you will never settle. (I know you won't take this advice). Find the positives in the body and encourage one another. Respect the differences in the body. It's not your job to correct every "perceived" error. Your call is to love one another. Do that.
Here is a good book to read. "Rethinking Retirement by John Piper." I read it and will read it again. I want to "finish well" the race. So now that I'm retired, what has God in store for me to further serve? Interestingly, I read this book (32 pages) because I am thinking about what to do with myself now that I am no longer teaching school. But Piper actually goes into this topic. It's interesting how he handles it.
That said, have fun, be respectful, and remember you are talking to brothers and sisters in Christ. I'm not perfect at this either but I do know when I'm not being kind.
This me now me as a mod. Just a reminder. The mods watch these threads very closely. So far, many of the OSAS threads have gotten closed for one reason or another. If you insist on engaging in this conversation, that's fine. BUT, since you are insistent that your position follows God's word, then follow these as well:
Colossians 4:6 Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
Romans 12:10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves.
Romans 14:13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.
1 Corinthians 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.
Ephesians 4:2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.
1 Peter 3:8 Live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble.
Philippians 2:3-5 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus.
Be blessed!
Many things are simple, but also need explanation in an easy form of understanding. It's hard to fully understand one verse that speaks about believing without giving the whole of the verses above and below it that gives us full understanding of believe, Acts 16:25-34.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
See, just by one verse here in James one could say the devils were saved because they believed in Jesus.
Salvation means to be whole mind, body and soul. Salvation comes by that of John 3:3-6 and Romans 10:9,10 as we confess we are sinners needing Gods grace. It is Gods grace that pardons our sin and it's Gods mercy that loves us unconditionally. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit at that time until the day of redemption, Ephesians 1:13, 14. If we are risen with Christ then we will seek those things from above where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God, Colossians Chapter 3.
I would have to be good with it, because the site would have declared it to be part of their statement of faith.
JLB
It's up to the Staff to set in order the Statement of Faith, and what is and is not sound doctrine, just like in a church, where the pastor and his staff set forth the doctrine that will be taught and the statement of faith.
If not the Staff, then who?
JLB
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
Then we could move on to water baptism and speaking in tongues and when one receives the Holy Spirit and tell you all how to think on these things. You wouldn't even need your Bible anymore, you could just ask us what to believe and we could tell you. Doesn't sound very attractive to me.
The scriptures are definitely not politics.
It would be awesome for the owners and moderators and staff of this site to come into unity about this vital doctrine.
JLB
A statement of faith about the major doctrine of salvation is much needed here at CF.net.
What is your belief about this teaching from Jesus Christ?
Can one of His sheep become lost?
4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7
- I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Jesus uses plain speech so everyone will understand:
- A lost sheep has returned to being sinner [unbeliever] in need of repentance.
- The sheep must repent in order to be "found" or "saved", just like an unbeliever must repent to "saved" or "found"
- Jesus does not force the lost sheep to repent, any more that an unbeliever.
Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.
Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.
- Lost Sheep:
- Lost Coin:
Luke 15:10
- Prodigal Son
Luke 15:32
JLB
chessman
Member
Yes.
Does one of His lost sheep become a goat or does the Biblical Text say (not imply) that this one is found and placed on His shoulders?
If it's one of His 100 sheep, it's a sinning lost sheep of His in need of repentance.
For how long does He go after this one lost sheep of His?
A. "Until He finds it"
B. Until he gives up and admits defeat?
C. Until a wolf comes by and snatches up His sheep and eats it?
Only within someone's case who is unwilling to read the rest of the story and answer a simple little question about it, which in plain language describes the 1/100 being searched for "until He finds it".
Care to answer; For how long does He go after this one?
What is not vital?
A clear SOF about the doctrine of salvation, is not vital to you sir?
JLB