Saved by Grace not of works !

[savedbygrace57]

Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The bible teaches and from this very passage, the doctrine of Salvation by Grace excluding any merit or works, or conditions and requirements to be performed on the part of man to secure it. Once a condition has been set, any condition, in order to get saved, something man must perform, such as to believe, to repent or anything else, Salvation by Grace through Faith is denied, and a work salvation is erected in its place. Rom 11:6

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

The Main reason why Salvation by Grace through Faith is denied by the religious world is because, Salvation by Grace means Salvation by being of the Election of Grace Rom 11:5-7

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

You see,Salvation by Grace means that God hath only purposed to save only some out of lost humanity by Grace and to dam and confirm in blindness the rest !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Saved by Grace not of works !

You see,Salvation by Grace means that God hath only purposed to save only some out of lost humanity by Grace and to dam and confirm in blindness the rest !

So what the False Teachers have done, they make Faith or Believing as conditions for Salvation, to be performed by men, instead of acknowledging that Faith or Believing are evidences of Salvation. Once this prospers in our thinking, we have a Salvation by works or by what we do Gospel, which denies Salvation by Grace !

You see anything we make a condition, a requirement to do is classified as a work !

God's Glory is manifested in the Eternal Salvation of His Chosen People, by His Sovereign and Reigning Grace in the accomplishment of their Salvation through Jesus Christ. Rom 5:21

21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

In Salvation by Grace, Grace Reigns through or because of Righteousness. That is the imputed Righteousness of Christ. God imputed the sins of the Elect unto Him, and in turn imputed His Righteousness unto them. 2 Cor 5:21, and this Righteousness laid to their account because of His Death for them, demands Eternal life for them. Prov 11:19 Christ's Death gives Justification to life Rom 5:18b

even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

All the men Jesus Christ represented as their Surety, through His death, He procured unto them Justification of life, which is Eternal Life, so Grace reigns because of Righteousness unto Eternal Life for God's Chosen in Christ, the Election of Grace.

 

[kjb1769]

But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. -Romans 11:4

Seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. -Romans 11:31. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. -Romans 11:32

Sounds like the ones who would repent from unbelief could be saved if they would believe Paul's Gospel which was kept secret since the world began!

 

[savedbygrace57]

kjb

Sounds like the ones who would repent from unbelief could be saved if they would believe Paul's Gospel which was kept secret since the world began!

Repent and believe, things men do, that's salvation by works that concept is against the Truth. Eph 2:8-9

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Saved by Grace not of works !

The proclamation " For by Grace are ye saved" is very plain speech which should not be mistaken, as so expressed in Eph 2:5 as well Eph 2:5

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

Now we want to point out who it is Paul is saying to them, you are saved by Grace ! BTW This Saved by Grace in both vs 5 and 8 are in the Perfect Tense in the Greek, which denotes the permanency of their Salvation [Future Salvation ensured], as well as being in the passive voice meaning someone else outside of themselves done the Saving !

Paul is directing His comments to Eph 1:1

1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Now though at the time he was writing specifically to the Saints at Ephesus, it should not be limited to them alone, but its applicable to all and any who are in Christ Jesus, for we are Saints or Holy One's or Set Apart Ones in Him !

Now these here in Christ Jesus in Ephesus we are told in vs 4 Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

We are told that they were Chosen in Him before the Foundation of the World [ Rom 11:5], and in the 10th verse of Eph 2 they are described as God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works Eph 2:10

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. -Romans 11:4

Seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. -Romans 11:31. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. -Romans 11:32

Sounds like the ones who would repent from unbelief could be saved if they would believe Paul's Gospel which was kept secret since the world began!

Kinda sounds like that huh...

 

[Grubal Muruch]

kjb



Repent and believe, things men do, that's salvation by works that concept is against the Truth. Eph 2:8-9

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Nope, sorry, One "cannot be saved, without faith." That's a fact!!!

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Saved by Grace not of works !

The proclamation " For by Grace are ye saved" is very plain speech which should not be mistaken, as so expressed in Eph 2:5 as well Eph 2:5

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

Now we want to point out who it is Paul is saying to them, you are saved by Grace ! BTW This Saved by Grace in both vs 5 and 8 are in the Perfect Tense in the Greek, which denotes the permanency of their Salvation [Future Salvation ensured], as well as being in the passive voice meaning someone else outside of themselves done the Saving !

Paul is directing His comments to Eph 1:1

1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Now though at the time he was writing specifically to the Saints at Ephesus, it should not be limited to them alone, but its applicable to all and any who are in Christ Jesus, for we are Saints or Holy One's or Set Apart Ones in Him !

Now these here in Christ Jesus in Ephesus we are told in vs 4 Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

We are told that they were Chosen in Him before the Foundation of the World [ Rom 11:5], and in the 10th verse of Eph 2 they are described as God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works Eph 2:10

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

By Grace are we saved "through" faith. Can't get around that!!!

 

[Grubal Muruch]

kjb



Repent and believe, things men do, that's salvation by works that concept is against the Truth. Eph 2:8-9

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is the "gift" which is spoken of in that verse, "not faith" Faith has to come from the believer...

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Saved by Grace not of works !

The proclamation " For by Grace are ye saved" is very plain speech which should not be mistaken, as so expressed in Eph 2:5 as well Eph 2:5

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

Now we want to point out who it is Paul is saying to them, you are saved by Grace ! BTW This Saved by Grace in both vs 5 and 8 are in the Perfect Tense in the Greek, which denotes the permanency of their Salvation [Future Salvation ensured], as well as being in the passive voice meaning someone else outside of themselves done the Saving !

Paul is directing His comments to Eph 1:1

1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Now though at the time he was writing specifically to the Saints at Ephesus, it should not be limited to them alone, but its applicable to all and any who are in Christ Jesus, for we are Saints or Holy One's or Set Apart Ones in Him !

Now these here in Christ Jesus in Ephesus we are told in vs 4 Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

We are told that they were Chosen in Him before the Foundation of the World [ Rom 11:5], and in the 10th verse of Eph 2 they are described as God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works Eph 2:10

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

If you, take faith out of the picture, you cannot be saved...

 

[Drew]

Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The bible teaches and from this very passage, the doctrine of Salvation by Grace excluding any merit or works, or conditions and requirements to be performed on the part of man to secure it.

It is indeed true that good works that have their origin in the efforts of man, unaided by the Holy Spirit, do not save.

But Paul is quite clear here in Romans 2 - good works are indeed needed for final salvation:

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.â€[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Paul certainly does believe that good works "save", but only when those works are generated by the Holy Spirit.

Now to this famous text from Ephesians 2, so deeply misunderstood:

Here is Ephesians 2:8-9 from the NASB:

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that (Y)no one may boast.

In verse 9, the writer is denying the salvific power of doing the works of Law of Moses, and not the more general category of “good worksâ€.

A point of method: It simply will not do to declare up front that the writer is talking about good works here. That begs the question, since the term “works†is not qualified by the term “good†or anything else that would rule out the possibility that the “works†of the Law of Moses is the subject. The fair-minded reader needs to ask which of the following views makes more sense given both the local context and the broader context of the whole letter:

1. The salvific power of doing good works is being denied;

2. The salvific power of doing the works of the Law of Moses is being denied.

Explanation 2 is the one that makes sense in light of what the writer goes on to say in verse 11.

Proceeding to an examination of Ephesians 2:11 and following, Paul uses the "therefore" to show us that he is now going to fill out the implications of his denial of salvation by “worksâ€

Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

The writer is clearly now talking about the Jew-Gentile divide, and how the actions of Jesus have brought Jew and Gentile together. Doing the works of Law of Moses, of course, is what demarcates Jew from Gentile in terms of covenant membership and shuts the Gentile out of citizenship in Israel. The writer continues:

14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations

How much more clear could the writer be? What has divided the Jew from the Gentile and been the barrier? Good works? Obviously not, both Jew and Gentile are on “the same side†of any good works barrier (first 20 or so verses of Romans 3). It is doing the works of Law of Moses, of course, that is the very thing that the Jew might otherwise boast in and which is now being declared to not be salvific.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

It is indeed true that good works that have their origin in the efforts of man, unaided by the Holy Spirit, do not save.

But Paul is quite clear here in Romans 2 - good works are indeed needed for final salvation:

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.â€[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Paul certainly does believe that good works "save", but only when those works are generated by the Holy Spirit.

Now to this famous text from Ephesians 2, so deeply misunderstood:

Here is Ephesians 2:8-9 from the NASB:

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that (Y)no one may boast.

In verse 9, the writer is denying the salvific power of doing the works of Law of Moses, and not the more general category of “good worksâ€.

A point of method: It simply will not do to declare up front that the writer is talking about good works here. That begs the question, since the term “works†is not qualified by the term “good†or anything else that would rule out the possibility that the “works†of the Law of Moses is the subject. The fair-minded reader needs to ask which of the following views makes more sense given both the local context and the broader context of the whole letter:

1. The salvific power of doing good works is being denied;

2. The salvific power of doing the works of the Law of Moses is being denied.

Explanation 2 is the one that makes sense in light of what the writer goes on to say in verse 11.

Proceeding to an examination of Ephesians 2:11 and following, Paul uses the "therefore" to show us that he is now going to fill out the implications of his denial of salvation by “worksâ€

Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

The writer is clearly now talking about the Jew-Gentile divide, and how the actions of Jesus have brought Jew and Gentile together. Doing the works of Law of Moses, of course, is what demarcates Jew from Gentile in terms of covenant membership and shuts the Gentile out of citizenship in Israel. The writer continues:

14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations

How much more clear could the writer be? What has divided the Jew from the Gentile and been the barrier? Good works? Obviously not, both Jew and Gentile are on “the same side†of any good works barrier (first 20 or so verses of Romans 3). It is doing the works of Law of Moses, of course, that is the very thing that the Jew might otherwise boast in and which is now being declared to not be salvific.

Salvation is not earned by works, it is a gift from God and received through our faith...

 

[Drew]

Salvation is not earned by works, it is a gift from God and received through our faith...

This a statement.

I supplied a detailed argument supporting my position.

Do you not feel obliged to actually engage arguments that challenge your position?

 

[Grubal Muruch]

This a statement.

I supplied a detailed argument supporting my position.

Do you not feel obliged to actually engage arguments that challenge your position?

No, I feel obliged to speak the truth when I read or hear "untruth."

 

[savedbygrace57]

If you, take faith out of the picture, you cannot be saved...

You are making Faith a Saviour instead of Christ, thats teach against Christ. You are promoting Salvation by works..

 

[savedbygrace57]

Grace is the "gift" which is spoken of in that verse, "not faith" Faith has to come from the believer...

Faith is a Gift also, Salvation by Grace through Faith is the Gift of God. Man believes through Grace Acts 18:27

27And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace

You are promoting a Salvation by works, that is contrary to scripture..

 

[Drew]

No, I feel obliged to speak the truth when I read or hear "untruth."

This is not really an acceptable answer, if, repeat if, we are engaged in serious debate.

I trust that I need not state the obvious: unwillingness to engage a clear counter-argument to one's position will be seen as a sign the position in question has some serious flaws.

If you want this to be a serious discussion, you simply cannot simply declare that an argument is false - you need to show how it is false.

 

[glorydaz]

This is not really an acceptable answer, if, repeat if, we are engaged in serious debate.

I trust that I need not state the obvious: unwillingness to engage a clear counter-argument to one's position will be seen as a sign the position in question has some serious flaws.

If you want this to be a serious discussion, you simply cannot simply declare that an argument is false - you need to show how it is false.

You're coming in late. It's been debated, and backed up with scripture. Grubal, especially, has gone out of his way to speak the truth in clear and concise language over and over again.

 

[Drew]

You're coming in late. It's been debated, and backed up with scripture. Grubal, especially, has gone out of his way to speak the truth in clear and concise language over and over again.

Please identify specific threads and posts numbers in which Grubal, or anyone else, has actually engaged the argument that I have put forward in respect to this famous text from Ephesians 2.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Faith is a Gift also, Salvation by Grace through Faith is the Gift of God. Man believes through Grace Acts 18:27

27And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace

You are promoting a Salvation by works, that is contrary to scripture..

The ability to place our faith as we choose is created within ALL of mankind. God created us so...