Saved by Grace Through Faith, Not by Works

[Cygnus]

The point I have constantly made is that every believer will be judged by his works.
James challenged the church to show their faith without works and said he would demonstrate his faith BY his works.

We know.

The point that is being made to you is that this judgement is not a judgement concerning salvation.

1 For 3: 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as one being snatched from the fire.

What is presented above is called the Bema Seat Judgement.

 

[Jim Parker]

Please explain how a saved person, one who has received eternal life, CAN perish. That would be interesting.

I have repeatedly posted the scriptures which warn believers that eternal life can be lost and you showed absolutely no interest whatsoever.
"Been there. Done that."

 

[Jim Parker]

It's not nice to refer to the teaching of Jesus as "unsound doctrine".

That is very true.
OSAS is NOT Jesus' teaching.

 

[Nathan]

When John 10:28 is also considered, we learn that those who HAVE eternal life have it because Jesus GAVE it to them. I suspect you're not really following the logic of this discussion.

Oh, I am following just fine. I think you changed a word in that verse. Its not "GAVE" its "Give".

Jhn 10:27-28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Maybe your translation says differently?

We know that Jesus gives eternal life to His sheep. The same sheep that hear Him and follow Him. If you do not hear Him or follow Him then you are not His sheep and He does not give you eternal life.

Why is there any need to add anymore to that passage than what is clearly stated?

 

[Gregg T]

I don't set a lot of value in arguments based on grammar since the grammar of the ancient Koine Greek and that of modern, American English differ so much. The conclusions reached by such efforts invariably focus on a set of "proof-texts" and require that many passages of scripture be totally ignored.

The point I have constantly made is that every believer will be judged by his works.
James challenged the church to show their faith without works and said he would demonstrate his faith BY his works.

The evidence of our faith is our works. They don't just happen automatically; we have to choose to do them and, to a greater or lesser degree, doing them requires that we exert effort, that is, we "work" at it. The church has been infiltrated by Gnostic-sounding, antinomian (Lit., “against the law”) teachers, who teach that faith saves apart from repentance, works or virtue. That is a false teaching.

Scripture explicitly states that we will be judged by our good works and that those who have no good works will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

See: Mat 25:31-46; Jhn 3:36; 5:28-29; 8:51; Ro 6:2-10; 8:12-14; 2Cor 5:10; 1 Pet 1:17; 1 John 2:17; Rev 20:12-13; 22:12 -14

iakov the fool

We, those saved, will not be judged so as to keep or lose salvation. That is a done deal. Our obedience, works, condition of our heart will be judges so as to have or not have certain rewards, but we will not perish by that judgement as we have eternal.

Now I understand somewhat why you think the things you do, according to your first paragraph - nevermind every little word that come from God's mouth, or the grammer He inspired.

 

[Cygnus]

That is very true.
OSAS is NOT Jesus' teaching.

I just went to my pen drawer and removed a black sharpie. I just lined out the following verse...

John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

After all, Jesus NEVER taught OSAS

 

[Cygnus]

Jhn 10:27-28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Here's what the verse REALLY says.....

Jhn 10:27-28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. If my sheep stop listening, or following Me, I will remove them from eternal life and they will now perish.

 

[Gregg T]

Here's what the verse REALLY says.....

Jhn 10:27-28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. If my sheep stop listening, or following Me, I will remove them from eternal life and they will now perish.

Cyg, I've never heard the Holy Spirit say that until . . but wait, He still has not said or implied that.

Do you not know that a house divided against itself will not stand.

 

[Nathan]

Here's what the verse REALLY says.....

Jhn 10:27-28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. If my sheep stop listening, or following Me, I will remove them from eternal life and they will now perish.

I've personally never encountered one who professes to be a believer in Christ, who purposefully changes Bible verses to try and prove a point - especially when the point they are trying to make about someone is false.

I hope one day you do understand.

 

[Nathan]

Here's what the verse REALLY says.....

Jhn 10:27-28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. If my sheep stop listening, or following Me, I will remove them from eternal life and they will now perish.

Do you consider the impact you are making on young ones in the faith, and those who are weak? Is it just a flippant thing for you to rewrite words that the One who you claim as Lord said?

Is Jesus your Lord?

 

[FreeGrace]

I have repeatedly posted the scriptures which warn believers that eternal life can be lost and you showed absolutely no interest whatsoever.

I have no interest in verses that do NOT plainly say that eternal life can be lost.

Furthermore, such an idea is IMPOSSIBLE because Jesus said that those He gives eternal life to will never perish.

So again, IMPOSSIBLE to lose eternal life.

 

[FreeGrace]

That is very true.
OSAS is NOT Jesus' teaching.

John 10:28 is the most clear and direct way to express eternal security.

Everyone who receives eternal life (recipients) will never perish. So said Jesus. John 10:28

 

[FreeGrace]

Oh, I am following just fine. I think you changed a word in that verse. Its not "GAVE" its "Give".

I was referring to the past tense. You know, all the believers who have been given (past tense) eternal life.

Are you arguing that Jesus didn't give eternal life to them????

He, in fact, GAVE them (all of them) eternal life, and He SAYS they shall never perish.

We know that Jesus gives eternal life to His sheep.

That's correct. All of them. And none of them will perish, because He said so.

Why is there any need to add anymore to that passage than what is clearly stated?

Yes, why are you?

Jesus was clear; those He gives eternal life will never perish. Jn 10:28

 

[FreeGrace]

Here's what the verse REALLY says.....

Jhn 10:27-28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. If my sheep stop listening, or following Me, I will remove them from eternal life and they will now perish.

 

[Seabass]

Which is why I followed your theology and crossed out that verse.

John 3:16 does not teach belief only nor do I.

 

[Seabass]

Cygnus said: ↑
I have no clue as to what you're trying to say. But it really doesn't matter because my bible no longer contains John 3:16.

What did Paul teach the jailer about how to be saved?

{hint} Acts 16:31

In v31 Paul had not yet told the jailer what to believe. Not until after v 32 where Paul "spake unto him the word of the Lord" we see the jailer repented and was baptized. So speaking the word of the Lord includes teaching repentance and baptism as the Lord said in Luke 13:3 and Mark 16:16. Which is why we see in verse 33 the jailer was repentant ( as seen with the Jailer washing stripes) and baptized.

Acts 16:34 "And he brought them up into his house, and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, with all his house, having believed in God." The participle "having believed" includes all the jailer had just done in v33 which includes repentance and baptism. So "believed" in Acts 16:34 is being used as a synecdoche where it includes repentance and baptism as it is in John 3:16 where it includes repentance and baptism also.

 

[Cygnus]

In v31 Paul had not yet told the jailer what to believe. Not until after v 32 where Paul "spake unto him the word of the Lord" we see the jailer repented and was baptized. So speaking the word of the Lord includes teaching repentance and baptism as the Lord said in Luke 13:3 and Mark 16:16. Which is why we see in verse 33 the jailer was repentant ( as seen with the Jailer washing stripes) and baptized.

Acts 16:34 "And he brought them up into his house, and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, with all his house, having believed in God." The participle "having believed" includes all the jailer had just done in v33 which includes repentance and baptism. So "believed" in Acts 16:34 is being used as a synecdoche where it includes repentance and baptism as it is in John 3:16 where it includes repentance and baptism also.

Believing is part of repentance....I surely don't want your style of repentance. Your style of repentance is unreachable.

So, He believed and repented. Good for him. He repented from his means of salvation and turned 180 deg's towards God way of salvation.

As far as being baptized to be saved...I'll leave that with the JW's and Mormons.

 

[MarkT]

I've been real clear. There are no conditions for recipients of eternal life. By the mere FACT that they have been given eternal life from Jesus, they will never perish. Because Jesus SAID so.

There absolutely IS a condition for being a recipient of eternal life. One MUST believe in the Savior.

But in John 10:28, Jesus gave NO CONDITIONS to recipients of eternal life for never perishing.

And Arminians, the ones claiming a saved person CAN perish, DO ADD conditions to recipients of eternal life in order to not perish.

So once you are saved, the condition that you believe in the savior doesn't apply anymore? Did you somehow become perfect that you don't need God anymore?

 

[Cygnus]

Cyg, I've never heard the Holy Spirit say that until . . but wait, He still has not said or implied that.

Do you not know that a house divided against itself will not stand.

I agree with you 100%. What I did was show the OSNAS sect just what they're adding to the bible to force it to say what they want it to say.

 

[Cygnus]

I've personally never encountered one who professes to be a believer in Christ, who purposefully changes Bible verses to try and prove a point - especially when the point they are trying to make about someone is false.

I hope one day you do understand.

The changes I made are EXACTLY what your OSNAS sect is saying.