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Senate tackles gay marriage ban

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Lewis

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The founders of this country would have never went for gay marriage. And the Republican party, which just happens to be my party of choice, is doing the right thing on this issue. Really this is not a political issue, it is a God issue.

Senate tackles gay marriage ban. (USA TODAY)
Posted 6/5/2006 4:16 AM ET
WASHINGTON (AP)  President Bush and congressional Republicans are aiming the political spotlight this week on efforts to ban gay marriage, with events at both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue  all for a constitutional amendment with scant chance of passage but wide appeal among social conservatives.

"Ages of experience have taught us that the commitment of a husband and wife to love and to serve one another promotes the welfare of children and the stability of society," Bush said in his Saturday radio address. "Government, by recognizing and protecting marriage, serves the interests of all."

The president was to make further remarks Monday in favor of the amendment as the Senate opened three days of debate.

ANALYSIS: Bush tries to regain his footing on once-rock-solid conservative base

All but one of the Senate Democrats  the exception is Ben Nelson of Nebraska  oppose the measure and, with moderate Republicans, are expected to block an up-or-down vote, killing the measure for the year.

Democrats say the amendment is a divisive bow to religious conservatives, and point out that it conflicts with the GOP's opposition to big government interference.

"A vote for this amendment is a vote for bigotry pure and simple," said Democratic Sen. Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, where the state Supreme Court legalized gay marriages in 2003.

The House also is expected to take up the measure this year.

Fueled by election-year politics, the gay marriage issue is the most volatile Congress will consider as it returns from a weeklong Memorial Day recess.

Other legislation has better chances for success, particularly a record-size emergency spending bill to continue U.S. military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and provide hurricane relief along the Gulf Coast.

The Pentagon says it needs its money  about $66 billion  right away or delays could begin to affect the conduct of the war in Iraq. The Senate added new relief for farmers and other aid to the package, swelling its cost to more than $100 billion. Bush is demanding that the price tag stick within his $92.2 billion request, plus $2.3 billion to combat avian flu.

An agreement could be passed this week.

The House is expected to consider a $32 billion spending bill would give the Homeland Security Department $1.8 billion more in 2007 than this year. It also is likely to send Bush a Senate-approved bill to raise indecency fines tenfold, to $325,000 per violation, for television and radio broadcasters.

Meanwhile, the Senate Judiciary Committee will hold a hearing Tuesday on government surveillance of journalists who publish classified information, the result of probes into published reports on secret prisons overseas and the Bush administration's domestic wiretapping program.

An election-year debate on the constitutional amendment to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman was never in doubt, however doomed the legislation. As Republicans geared up to defend their majorities in the House and Senate, conservative groups earlier this year let them know that they were dissatisfied with the GOP's efforts on several social issues, including gay marriage.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a possible presidential candidate in 2008, promptly placed the amendment on the floor schedule, with Bush's promotion central to the plan.

In his Saturday radio address, Bush cast the amendment as a defense of the stability of society and a strike back at judges who have overturned state laws similar in intent to the proposed legislation.

"In our free society, people have the right to choose how they live their lives," Bush said. "And in a free society, decisions about such a fundamental social institution as marriage should be made by the people, not by the courts."

Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., said Sunday that the amendment is unnecessary. "We already have a law, the Defense of Marriage Act. ... Nobody has violated that law. There's been no challenge to that law. Why do we need a constitutional amendment?" Biden said on NBC's Meet the Press.

Parliamentary maneuvers were likely to sink the amendment for the year. Senate procedure requires two days of debate before the 100-member Senate decides  60 votes are required  whether to consider the amendment on an up-or-down vote.

Even the amendment's proponents don't expect it to survive this first step, let alone Senate passage by the two-thirds majority needed in both houses to send it to states for ratification.

"This is important throughout the country," Sen. George Allen, R-Va., said Sunday on CNN's Late Edition. "The fact that we'll have a majority vote but not a two-thirds vote doesn't mean that you don't try."
 
Lewis W said:
The founders of this country would have never went for gay marriage. And the Republican party, which just happens to be my party of choice, is doing the right thing on this issue. Really this is not a political issue, it is a God issue.

.
When they bring the issue up in order to draw fire away from Bush and the more important issues it is a political issue. Although I don't believe in gay marriage I think the immigration issue, reliables sources of fuel, the quagmire in Iraq, the potential for disaster in Iran , the idiot Bush just put into place at the Fed (Bernanke) are far more important issues than whether or not gays want to get married. Gays will never even be on the radar where most people are concerned and will never consume the resources of our society like the ones I just mentioned.
 
Bush is an idiot. This is another reason why I love England, truly the land of the free. Gay marriages are legal and are also now a legal contract, just not done in a church. I don’t believe in the act but I have gay friends and I believe strongly in freedom of a person, I refuse to allow people to dictate other peoples lives, god gave us freedom and free will. They choose theirs by being gay, I choose mine by letting them continue, they are not hurting me. Plus I have more important things to worry about then people getting married which is none of my business. Freedom Forever!
 
RichardE40K said:
Bush is an idiot. This is another reason why I love England, truly the land of the free. Gay marriages are legal and are also now a legal contract, just not done in a church. I don’t believe in the act but I have gay friends and I believe strongly in freedom of a person, I refuse to allow people to dictate other peoples lives, god gave us freedom and free will. They choose theirs by being gay, I choose mine by letting them continue, they are not hurting me. Plus I have more important things to worry about then people getting married which is none of my business. Freedom Forever!

I pretty well agree with you, Richard. So ...everyone of us should mind our own business and let God be the judge, eh? What a great and novel idea!
 
I didn’t mean that. I meant that it is between the two consenting adults, I cant see how it affects us in any way. So what if they are gay, not hurting me, nether are they affecting me. Intervening in any way wont do any good to me nor them, so I don’t see the problem. I mean there is gay priests and gay vicars, men and women. Of course we should take interest in subjects that are important, I just don’t see this one of them, I think bush should be more interested in the murder he has committed in Iraq to American troops and Iraqi civilians. Just like my Priminister should, but according to both of them, it was god that told them to do it.
 
Lewis, it baffles me beyond belief the lack of discernment among some Christians here.

1 - This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act.... Active promotion of sinful behavior will not be permitted. This includes promotion of homosexual behavior. Individual restrictions may apply on a Forum to Forum basis. Please check the announcements and stickeys at the top of each Forum.
 
Well just because it is a christian site does not mean we can't have our own minds. To some christians it may be seen as sinful but I don't see it that way, I dont belive its right but I dont see it as a sin. Iv'e never promoted homosexual acts but niether will I condemn them. It's there god given right to do so, as it is for people to disagree with the act. Like I said, not hurting me, so no problem.
 
vic said:
Lweis, it baffles me beyond belief the lack of discernment among some Christians here.

1 - This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act.... Active promotion of sinful behavior will not be permitted. This includes promotion of homosexual behavior. Individual restrictions may apply on a Forum to Forum basis. Please check the announcements and stickeys at the top of each Forum.

What about promoting Free Will?
 
peace4all said:
vic said:
Lweis, it baffles me beyond belief the lack of discernment among some Christians here.

1 - This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act.... Active promotion of sinful behavior will not be permitted. This includes promotion of homosexual behavior. Individual restrictions may apply on a Forum to Forum basis. Please check the announcements and stickeys at the top of each Forum.

What about promoting Free Will?

Those involved in the sin of homosexuality are enslaved by it and do not have free will. Those who support them support their continued enslavement and do not love them.
 
Free Will is what makes us human. Anyone who does not alow it is as low as a dictator. And its not an enslavement, they cant help the way they are born, Id rather someone be gay than live a lie, its thier life.
 
RichardE40K said:
Well just because it is a christian site does not mean we can't have our own minds. To some christians it may be seen as sinful but I don't see it that way, I dont belive its right but I dont see it as a sin. Iv'e never promoted homosexual acts but niether will I condemn them. It's there god given right to do so, as it is for people to disagree with the act. Like I said, not hurting me, so no problem.
If you are a true Christian, it hurts you in ways you may not even realize yet.

Please familiarize yourself with the Terms you supposedly aggreed to when signing up here:

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=9219

What I posted above is rule #1. If you cannot agree to our TOS, then may we suggest you find a site more suitable to your liking or maybe even a unmoderated site.

Peace,
Vic
 
Well I'm not promoting it niether am I against christian teachings. All I belive in is free will, I find it very sad that, that true gift from god would be bound by someone.
 
RichardE40K said:
Free Will is what makes us human. Anyone who does not alow it is as low as a dictator. And its not an enslavement, they cant help the way they are born, Id rather someone be gay than live a lie, its thier life.

It is a lie to live as a gay man because it frustrates one of the main purposes for which God has created us male and female. "be fruitful and multiply". Homosexuals cannot do this. Homosexuality is against nature and therefore it is not free. It is a byproduct of the corruptoin of our will and not the freedom of it. Free will is not freedom to choose between good and evil. It is the freedom to choose good and that is what the redemption by Jesus Christ on the cross did for us. It gives us the grace to not be enslaved by sin, which the scripture do say is enslavement. I would rather do good by the grace of God than be enslaved.

Heterosexuals get involved in promiscuity, having multiple partners because they are "attracked to" multiple people. Is this fine for you as well? Is someone who is addicted to sex (ie. it's called a nymphomanic) "free". Is an alcoholic who has to have a drink "free"? or is the alcohol his master? Is the man who works all day and half the night at the expense of time with his family "free" or is money his master?

God bless
 
All good points, Thess.

Free will comes with responsibilities and a price. Do you agree that Adam and Eve had this so-called free will? What happened to them? What happened to Jonah when he exercized his free will? Did Jesus exercize His free will to its fullest extent or was He more concerned with doing the will of the Father?
 
Anyone to do what they want in my eyes is a free person. We do have to remember that the bible was written 2000 years ago and the views of the times were very different to today’s modern way of life, I mean homosexuals have been around for as long as history can go back, even some animals are gay. Of course just because you bare free does not mean you can just go and say, kill someone and not face the consequences, but you have the freedom to do so.

An addiction is not the same, it is that. An addiction that requires help to get out of. Being gay or lesbian is not about any addiction, it is the core programming of their bodies which they themselves cannot help and to act otherwise would be against their nature. Having gay friends, male and female I suppose makes me less condemning, I still will never believe the act is right, but I wont say it is as far as a sin, or should be stopped, they get enough persecution from the neo-nazis and gay bashers in the world and others, I really don’t need to add another person to the intolerance list. Just as group sexual acts, its their life, they are consenting adults to do so, as long as they are not harming anyone. I don’t believe that is right either but its their freedom. And like I have said, its my freedom to allow these things to happen without attacking them, I mean I have had partners and have not been married, so I suppose I am a great sinner, however I do this as I have not found the right person yet to bond with.

And god bless you too.
 
It is a lie to live as a gay man because it frustrates one of the main purposes for which God has created us male and female. "be fruitful and multiply". Homosexuals cannot do this

Which is why the Christian advice of being celibate (if you are homosexual) makes a WHOLE LOT MORE SENSE. God knows how much life is generated by celibacy. :o

Secondly, St. Paul doesn't seem to heed the "be fruitful and multiply" command when he says that he wishes "all were like he" (in regards to his celibacy) but says that marriage is permissible so that our lusts are vented and we are not consumed with unspiritual passion. To St. Paul, marriage was for the weak...so much for the most sacred institution.

“It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.â€Â

“Now, to the unmarried and the widows I say “It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am, but if they cannot control themselves, they should marry for it is better to marry than to burn with passionâ€Â
1 Corinthians 7:11

“as for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they will want to marry.â€Â1 Timothy, 5:11
 
AHIMSA,

I thought you were athiest: you certainly understand the Bible IMHO :biggrin
 
I don't get it!

I am non-trinitarian and being ostracized by mainstream churches but some mainstream churches are condoning clearly sinful practices. ???
 
thessalonian said:
RichardE40K said:
Free Will is what makes us human. Anyone who does not alow it is as low as a dictator. And its not an enslavement, they cant help the way they are born, Id rather someone be gay than live a lie, its thier life.

It is a lie to live as a gay man because it frustrates one of the main purposes for which God has created us male and female. "be fruitful and multiply". Homosexuals cannot do this.
Neither can sterile males or females, so, by your logic, they should not be allowed to marry
Homosexuality is against nature and therefore it is not free. It is a byproduct of the corruptoin of our will and not the freedom of it.
yet, homosexuality and homosexual tendencies are found ALL thro out the animal kingdom, and in countries and places that have never even heard of God, or the Bible.

Free will is not freedom to choose between good and evil. It is the freedom to choose good and that is what the redemption by Jesus Christ on the cross did for us.
Obviously, there is only one path to choose, so what fredom is that?> you have free will to do exactly as god says, if you don't then you dont have free will anymore? That makes no sense.

Heterosexuals get involved in promiscuity, having multiple partners because they are "attracked to" multiple people. Is this fine for you as well?
yes
Is someone who is addicted to sex (ie. it's called a nymphomanic) "free". Is an alcoholic who has to have a drink "free"? or is the alcohol his master? Is the man who works all day and half the night at the expense of time with his family "free" or is money his master?
sure, they are all doing what they want with their lives. Sex feels good, because god made it that way apparently. Alchol gives you a pretty decent feeling (if used responsibly) and the man that works all day, hopefully is working for the good of his familly, so he can provide them with clothing, shelter, and a college education (I sure wish my father did this, because I have to pay college out of pocket, and am working 65+ hours a week this summer so I can do that, while havign to balance my familly, friends, girl-frined and fraternity brothers)

Everyone is free to do as they will. Jesus saw sinners, and realized they did not want his help and his grace, so he let them sin.
Follow in teh path of Jesus.
Forcing someone to god, will just leave their heart closed. For someone to truly find god, they have to open their own heart, willingly.
 
I second that. This is why the Christian faith is getting such bad press in some areas, most of my friends are Atheist, and you know why. Because they get the finger pointed at them by some Christian saying "you sin, you’re bad, I'm good and holy so I'm better than you, and the bible is the only way to save yourself". It's so, frustrating that people do this, we have really got to get with the times. I’m not directing this at anyone I’m just saying, this is what I hear from a lot of my friends, they don’t want to be part of a religion that casts people out and condemns them before they even find Jesus. And it worries me.

Where I live we have an open church, a new idea which I think is pretty cool. Any race, sex, religion, sexual orientation or any person really, poor or rich can come and pray and talk to the community. No one, not a single person is unwelcome, weather good or sinner. Now I love it, using this method, more and more people of the streets have found god and let Jesus into their lives. But what do you expect to happen if you just class homosexuals as sinners and use the bible to cast them out. We get bad press and less and less followers, due to the fact, people don’t want to be dictated by people. Let god decide who is right for his kingdom. I say everyone is, as long as they can be good to their fellow man and love god. anyone, they want to choose a good life, not be forced.
 
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