Sinless for as long as God lives

[Kidron]

The Blood of Christ, is able to SAVE YOU and KEEP YOU SAVED, based on 2 things.

1.) Romans 5:9 : ""And since we have been made right in God's sight by the blood of Christ""

Now do you see the tense, of this verse?...its "have BEEN".,
This means, its DONE......Its FINISHED... its COMPLETED.....for you.
So, there you have your SALVATION status....."completed for you".

2.) Hebrews 7:25....""So Jesus is able to >save completely< those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Now, did you notice how Jesus SAVES you?
He saves you '"completely"...as that is his POWER, that is His AUTHORITY.
This means JESUS is in heaven right now saving you, keeping you saved, and this is because he is interceding for you, BECAUSE His Blood has made you sinless, "in God's sight".

So, do you see any works you need to do for Jesus to have "made you acceptable in God's Sight", (Romans 5:9).. while Jesus is currently in Heaven "saving you completely because He lives to intercede for you"...Heberws 7:25?

So, ALL THIS is how you are saved, why you are saved, and WHO SAVED YOU and How HE KEEPS YOU SAVED"....which IS GOSPEL Salvation.

So, when someone tries to tell you that you are to keep commandments, and worry about works, so that you can endure to then end and hope you end up in heaven if you work hard enough and keep enough commandments.........Then tell them.....NO, Jesus's BLOOD has made me RIGHTEOUS in God's eyes, and Jesus in in Heaven right now interceding for me and KEEPING ME SAVED.
And THAT is why you are saved yesterday, today, and tomorrow, and forever.
Because of what JESUS has done for you and is currently STILL DOING FOR YOU.

 

[reba]

What i understand the above post to be saying is you can do works of the flesh and be saved..
I believe the Scriptures say other wise
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Kidron]

What i understand the above post to be saying is you can do works of the flesh and be saved..
I believe the Scriptures say other wise
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

_

Can a Christian smoke and drink alcohol (works of the flesh) and be saved?
Well, ask nearly any Catholic Priest for your final answer, i guess.
There are many of you here who are Catholic, and your Priest will be smoking and drinking this afternoon.
I personally am fine with this, as long as you agree that you cant just cherry pick and choose the works of the flesh that send you to hell, as long as smoking and drinking do not send your Priest to Hell this afternoon.
Does this make you angry?
Then ask your Priest why he smokes and drinks, instead of being angry at me.
Be honest, ok?

Also,
How you could possibly get the idea that i said that we are to enjoy our sinning once we are saved????
I didnt say this, didnt imply it, and certainly i didnt write it, in the Thread, or in any Thread.
What i wrote has nothing to do with living in sin, or sinning, or doing works of the flesh.
I strictly stated that you are (by Faith) born again by the Blood Atonement, and Kept saved by the Lord.
Posted the Scriptures.
And when i continue to write in a lot of threads about works and commandment keeping........do you ever see me write that you are to not do works, or keep commandments and just live like the devil?
Of course not.
All im relaying is that we are not to try to keep ourselves saved by keeping commandments or by doing good works.
We are to do good works, and we are to live clean holy lives, but not to be saved or stay saved, but because we ARE saved.
There are a few posters here like Jethro and Wondering who continually teach that you are to work and keep commandments to keep yourself saved.....That your blood atonement is based on YOU......and its not.......Its based on Jesus's blood and God's Grace.
You cant save yourself or keep yourself saved with works and commandment keeping, but you are to do good works and especially Jesus's 2 commandments because you ARE Saved..
If you could save yourself then keep yourself saved by doing good works and keeping commandments, then Jesus didnt need to bleed out and hang and die.

Listen, here is the distinction between Wondering and Jethro Bodine and JLB and what they believe and teach, and what Im sharing.
Those 3 teach that Jesus saves you, then you keep yourself saved by your behavior, by your works, and by "continuing to believe"< and "holding on to the end".
So, if this is Math, then they teach, ...The Cross + commandments and works saves you.

If you read what im saying, im saying that Jesus blood atonement and intercession takes your sins and maintains your salvation.
Im saying that Salvation is a completed process once it is applied to you.
Im saying that Jesus gets all the credit for saving us, and we take none of the credit by pretending that we can help out the cross with our works, deeds, and lifestyle.

You are to live Holy, but we are never to trust anything but Christ alone to save us and keep us saved.
So, if i tell you that if you dont do this and do that, then i am saying that Christ is not enough to save you, and that salvation is your responsibility and not based on what He accomplished on the cross.........and that would a lie.

 

[reba]

our perceptions are different ..
The Scriptures says this
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

and you said So, when someone tries to tell you that you are to keep commandments, and worry about works, so that you can endure to then end and hope you end up in heaven if you work hard enough and keep enough commandments.........Then tell them.....NO, Jesus's BLOOD has made me RIGHTEOUS in God's eyes, and Jesus in in Heaven right now interceding for me and KEEPING ME SAVED.

 

[Kidron]

our perceptions are different ..
The Scriptures says this
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

and you said So, when someone tries to tell you that you are to keep commandments, and worry about works, so that you can endure to then end and hope you end up in heaven if you work hard enough and keep enough commandments.........Then tell them.....NO, Jesus's BLOOD has made me RIGHTEOUS in God's eyes, and Jesus in in Heaven right now interceding for me and KEEPING ME SAVED.

.

Let me ask you this.

Q1.

If you didnt commit any of those works of the flesh in your entire life, would you be going to heaven if you were not born again?


Q2.

So, what are you trusting to get you to heaven?
Are you trusting Jesus, or are you saying that Jesus plus your lifestyle is "Salvation"?

Here is how im perceiving what you are saying..

"Kidron, i believe that Jesus saved me, but after this i have to never do evil works of the flesh if i want to stay saved".

Is that what you are saying?

Here is Question #3?

What sins can you commit AFTER you are saved, that the Blood of Jesus has not already paid for when God saved you?

 

[Chopper]

The Blood of Christ, is able to SAVE YOU and KEEP YOU SAVED, based on 2 things.

1.) Romans 5:9 : ""And since we have been made right in God's sight by the blood of Christ""

Now do you see the tense, of this verse?...its "have BEEN".,
This means, its DONE......Its FINISHED... its COMPLETED.....for you.
So, there you have your SALVATION status....."completed for you".

2.) Hebrews 7:25....""So Jesus is able to >save completely< those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Now, did you notice how Jesus SAVES you?
He saves you '"completely"...as that is his POWER, that is His AUTHORITY.
This means JESUS is in heaven right now saving you, keeping you saved, and this is because he is interceding for you, BECAUSE His Blood has made you sinless, "in God's sight".

So, do you see any works you need to do for Jesus to have "made you acceptable in God's Sight", (Romans 5:9).. while Jesus is currently in Heaven "saving you completely because He lives to intercede for you"...Heberws 7:25?

So, ALL THIS is how you are saved, why you are saved, and WHO SAVED YOU and How HE KEEPS YOU SAVED"....which IS GOSPEL Salvation.

So, when someone tries to tell you that you are to keep commandments, and worry about works, so that you can endure to then end and hope you end up in heaven if you work hard enough and keep enough commandments.........Then tell them.....NO, Jesus's BLOOD has made me RIGHTEOUS in God's eyes, and Jesus in in Heaven right now interceding for me and KEEPING ME SAVED.
And THAT is why you are saved yesterday, today, and tomorrow, and forever.
Because of what JESUS has done for you and is currently STILL DOING FOR YOU.

You say,

when someone tries to tell you that you are to keep commandments

That someone is Jesus....1 John 5:2 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

 

[Kidron]

You say, That someone is Jesus....1 John 5:2 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

-
Chopper..

Yes, we keep Gods commandments and work for Him because we are saved, but not to keep our salvation as only the Atonement keeps us saved.

Let me show you this..

An unsaved Nun is working the slums of Belize for 49 years...., She's not born again, but she feels that to serve the poorest is to please God.
She believes there is a God.
One night she dies in her sleep there. She is 97.

Then, there was a man who was born again when he was 16, went to seminary, got married, started a church, preached for 12 years and then his 3 month pregnant wife was attacked one night as she was leaving the local gym by a rapist who took her to some nearby woods, raped her, and then kicked her to death which also killed the pregnancy......it would have been a boy.
He (the Preacher-Husband) never recovered, bitterly blamed God, became a drunk for 30 years, and died on a bed in a seedy Louisana hotel that was bug infested and smelled like urine and rot.

Who went to heaven, and who didnt?

Hint....(not the nun).

 

[Chopper]

-
Chopper..

Yes, we keep Gods commandments and work for Him because we are saved, but not to keep our salvation as only the Atonement keeps us saved.

Let me show you this..

An unsaved Nun is working the slums of Belize for 49 years...., She's not born again, but she feels that to serve the poorest is to please God.
She believes there is a God.
One night she dies in her sleep there. She is 97.

Then, there was a man who was born again when he was 16, went to seminary, got married, started a church, preached for 12 years and then his 3 month pregnant wife was attacked one night as she was leaving the local gym by a rapist who took her to some nearby woods, raped her, and then kicked her to death which also killed the pregnancy......it would have been a boy.
He (the Preacher-Husband) never recovered, bitterly blamed God, became a drunk for 30 years, and died on a bed in a seedy Louisana hotel that was bug infested and smelled like urine and rot.

Who went to heaven, and who didnt?

Hint....(not the nun).

I see the point that you're making. A man who responds to a tragedy like what you mentioned, is different from someone by their own choice is in open rebellion against Salvation and departs from the faith.

 

[GodsGrace]

-
Chopper..

Yes, we keep Gods commandments and work for Him because we are saved, but not to keep our salvation as only the Atonement keeps us saved.

Let me show you this..

An unsaved Nun is working the slums of Belize for 49 years...., She's not born again, but she feels that to serve the poorest is to please God.
She believes there is a God.
One night she dies in her sleep there. She is 97.

Then, there was a man who was born again when he was 16, went to seminary, got married, started a church, preached for 12 years and then his 3 month pregnant wife was attacked one night as she was leaving the local gym by a rapist who took her to some nearby woods, raped her, and then kicked her to death which also killed the pregnancy......it would have been a boy.
He (the Preacher-Husband) never recovered, bitterly blamed God, became a drunk for 30 years, and died on a bed in a seedy Louisana hotel that was bug infested and smelled like urine and rot.

Who went to heaven, and who didnt?

Hint....(not the nun).

Who are we to say who is saved and who isn't?
I thought that was God's job!

If the nun believes there is a God and she's working for him,AND NUNS KNOW ABOUT JESUS,
why wouldn't she be saved?

.
Judging souls, is not our job..

 

[GodsGrace]

I see the point that you're making. A man who responds to a tragedy like what you mentioned, is different from someone by their own choice is in open rebellion against Salvation and departs from the faith.

Who is in open rebellion in the 2 stories?

I don't think we should be trying to figure out who's saved and who isn't.

 

[Chopper]

In thinking and meditating on what you are teaching, I really don't have an argument on what you're saying, I think it's how you say it. I have always believed that if a Believer in Christ Jesus is biblically saved, then all you have to say is true. What Christ Jesus accomplished on the Cross, saves eternally, those who place their faith and belief on His finished work, period!!

As a result, works that prove his relationship with the Son of God, automatically follow. It's the life of a new creation in Christ Jesus. Old things have passed away, and all things are new. I believe that the sermon on the mount in Matthew chapter five, are the Commandments that Jesus teaches that the born again Believer's lifestyle will become if according to John 2 is true in that He commits Himself to the one who believes in Him. Notice that Jesus does not commit Himself to those who believe in Him for some reason other than receiving Him as their Master Owner.

John 2:23 "Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
2:24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
2:25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man"

What I don't like about your teaching, and will stand against what I believe is false is, it appears to me that you want to disregard "works of obedience" altogether. Now, what is being argued here is, do works of obedience keep us saved, right? My answer is NO!! Works of obedience simply follow a true biblical Believer in Jesus the Son of God Who died on the cross. Works of obedience are simply an identifying means of pointing out a Believer in Christ Jesus, that's all. They don't keep us saved, Jesus does that. Am I clear?

My message to you is, stop downplaying works of obedience, they are important, and are commanded by Christ Jesus. God bless you for defending the finished work that Jesus accomplished with His Cross Work. Those who are truly saved need nothing more added to what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross. I like this verse....

Colossians 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power"

That says it all for me, "Ye are complete in Him"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[iLOVE]

Your Salvation is a gift from God. You simply have to believe and accept that the Lord Jesus Christ died on Calvary to pay the price for your redemption.

The Scripture says: “For by Grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is a gift of God; not of works lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8-9)

Salvation through the Blood of Jesus Christ (Mat. 26:28; Acts 20:28; Col. 1:20; Heb. 9:22; I Pet. 1:18-19).

A victorious, overcoming Christian life. This means victory over sin in every capacity (Rom 6:11; I Cor. 15:57-58; Eph. 6:10-13; James 1:22; I Jn.5:4-5; Rev. 2:7).

• Divine Healing according to the Word of God (Ex. 15:26; Ex. 23:25; Isa. 53:5; Mk. 6:13; James 5:14-15, I Pet. 2:24).

God only awards imputed righteousness by maintaining faith exclusively in Christ and his finished work (Romans 4:5). God only recognize the blood of Jesus on the door post of our hearts. That Believer is now under the strongest law in the universe, " The Law Of The Spirit Of Life In Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2)." This law is stronger than "The Law Of Sin And Death (Romans 8:1-2)." So when you do miss the mark and sin, you still have imputed righteousness. Which means: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Sin has no dominion over you. (The Believer must confess their sins 1 John 1:9)

The Law Of The Spirit Of Life In Christ Jesus gives the Believer victory over the world, the flesh, and the devil.

Victory over the world: Galatians 6:14 ; 1 John 5:4
Victory over the flesh: Galatians 5:24
Victory over the devil: Hebrews 2:14 ; Colossians 2:15

FAQ's Brother Jimmy Swaggart

 

[Chopper]

Who is in open rebellion in the 2 stories?

I don't think we should be trying to figure out who's saved and who isn't.

Hi there Wondering Woman. Boy, I didn't mean to alarm you, sorry. I agree with you. Perhaps it's that I didn't make my statement very clear. I simply answered a scenario that Kidron posed. To Judge or discern a person's Salvation? Please look at....
1John 2:3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

Probably, you're trying to obey "Judge not lest ye be judged". I can appreciate that. Something you should realize is that certain Church leaders are called by God to discern the works of folk who profess Jesus as their Savior. I'm one of them because of the call on my life to be a Pastor/Teacher. One of my obligations is....James 5:19 "Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."

For 40+ years of serving my Lord as a Pastor/Teacher and Counselor to those in trouble, I've had to make the distinction as to whether a person is saved or unsaved, demon possessed or demon oppressed. Only God judges, all I can do is discern.

 

[Kidron]

Who are we to say who is saved and who isn't?
I thought that was God's job!

If the nun believes there is a God and she's working for him,AND NUNS KNOW ABOUT JESUS,
why wouldn't she be saved?

Judging souls, is not our job..

-

IN the case of the nun, she's in hell.
This is the status of every unsaved person, nun, priest, pope, pastor, tycoon, soccer mom, YMCA manager, politician, dog catcher, bible translator, guitarist in rock band, banker, 1st grade teacher......this is the status of any and all and everyone whose is not born again, and they die.
This nun in the story is not born again...She's just a RELIGIOUS do-gooder trying to work her way into heaven, who was never saved.
She's knows about God, she is familiar with the baby in the manger story, but she died, LOST., as do all who have not turned to Christ after hearing the gospel and been born again. Jesus said "you MUST BE Born again", and that does not mean water, it means a new birth in your SPIRIT MAN.
The drunken pastor who never recovered, is in heaven, and this is because the Lord Jesus The Christ bore all His sins when He saved him when the drunken pastor was 16, and because Jesus was already JUDGED for the Pastor's sins, the Pastor was not JUDGED for them after he died..
God will never Judge you if Christ has ALREADY died for your SINS.
Ditto: The drunken Pastor

The moral of this story is....
"born again" or NOT.
Being saved "born again" is a one way ticket to heaven for all who come to the Cross and believe on the Lord Jesus The Christ.
If you dont, then all your good deeds cant save you, or keep you out of hell.......just ask the lost Nun.

Here is something else.
A person, unsaved, says...."well, i'll get to heaven if you get to heaven, as im as good as YOU".
And God says, yes you are even better then Wondering, but compared to JESUS what are you?
So, thats the problem.
The problem is RIGHTEOUSNESS, as that is center line of the New Testament. That is the purpose of The Christ's coming and the only way to heaven.
To end up in Heaven.....Your RIGHTEOUS has to be EQUAL to GOD's Righteousness , as without this, you are not going to heaven to stay.
Heaven is HOLY< and all UNRighteousness is NOT ALLOWED IN to stay.
So, works wont make you righteous, and keeping all the commandments that you can find to keep wont make you RIGHTEOUS.
And this is why precious Nuns scrubbing streets are still just lost sinners scrubbing streets, if they are not SAVED <> Born again.
But once saved, they are transformed into the very Holiness of Jesus, as THAT is what we are given when we are born again.
We are given the "Gift of Righteousness", and now because have been made SINLESS <> Righteous, we are THEN ALLOWED TO LIVE WHERE ONLY RIGHTEOUSNESS IS ALLOWED TO LIVE....and that place is with GOD, in HEAVEN, as only the Righteous get in to stay.
And to become righteous, you have to become sinless, and to become sinless you have to be washed sinless in the BLOOD OF THE LAMB at some point in your life.
Works cant wash you sinless.....Commandments cant wash you sinless, and that is why those are useless with regard to making you HOLY <> Righteous.
So, if you want to go to heaven and not go to Hell......then become as Righteous and Sinless as GOD.
There is only one WAY, (John 14:6) and HIS NAME is Jesus, as only HIS BLOOD can wash you as CLEAN as GOD.
And THAT, is Salvation.....Salvation is >being made< as Righteous as God by receiving the very Righteousness of Christ as a "free gift".
The nun didnt have it.
Make sure you do.......reader...

 

[reba]

Any one here agreeing the point that works will save you?

 

[iLOVE]

Any one here agreeing the point that works will save you?

Matthew 7:21-23 New King James Version (NKJV)

I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Jesus is speaking about the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil." Genesis 2:17

That tree has GOOD WORKS that is independent from God...with NO RELATIONSHIP!

 

[Chopper]

Any one here agreeing the point that works will save you?

Works will not save anyone!!

 

[Kidron]

our perceptions are different ..
The Scriptures says this
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

and you said So, when someone tries to tell you that you are to keep commandments, and worry about works, so that you can endure to then end and hope you end up in heaven if you work hard enough and keep enough commandments.........Then tell them.....NO, Jesus's BLOOD has made me RIGHTEOUS in God's eyes, and Jesus in in Heaven right now interceding for me and KEEPING ME SAVED.

-
Let me ask you these....

Q1.

If you didnt commit any of those works of the flesh in your entire life, would you be going to heaven if you were not born again?


Q2.

So, what are you trusting to get you to heaven?
Are you trusting Jesus, or are you saying that Jesus plus your lifestyle is "Salvation"?

Here is how im perceiving what you are saying..
"Kidron, i believe that Jesus saved me, but after this i have to never do evil works of the flesh if i want to stay saved".

Is that what you are saying?

Here is Question #3?

What sins can you commit AFTER you are saved, that the Blood of Jesus has not already paid for when God saved you?

 

[Kidron]

Any one here agreeing the point that works will save you?

Think of it like this.
If works and commandments that you do and keep, if these wont save you, then how can not doing works and commandments cause you to lose your salvation if you dont do them after you are saved?

How can something that cant save you, .....be taught, that if you dont do it after you are actually SAVED, you will lose your salvation?

God accepts our FAITH to then redeem us, he does not accept our works or our lifestyle or our commandment keeping.
So, if works, lifestyle, and commandment keeeping are not accepted to BE saved, then these same, if you dont do them cant possibly cause God to take away your salvation.

 

[reba]

try again