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you used niv - i used nkjv - it is a difference of translation - if you are talking about pedagogue then i can look closer at that post and reply again

TF,

This is your reply to my question which was:

I provided exegesis from the Greek text. Is your meaning from the NKJV more correct than the Greek text of Gal 3:24-25???​

You demonstrate again that you refuse to answer the question I ask. If you continue like this, I'll not engage further with you on this topic.

Avoidance is a non-answer.

Oz
 
show me where God said only israelites were to eat like this

and not only eat but live like this -

of all the things God said were good to do and bad to do show me where God said only israelites were to live like this

TF,

I've already done that with Lev 11:1-3 but you are not listening.

Oz
 
TF,

This is your reply to my question which was:

I provided exegesis from the Greek text. Is your meaning from the NKJV more correct than the Greek text of Gal 3:24-25???​

You demonstrate again that you refuse to answer the question I ask. If you continue like this, I'll not engage further with you on this topic.

Avoidance is a non-answer.

Oz
i'm sorry but i don't know what you are talking about specifically
 
i don't see it as an order - and paul didn't say God says

But to each one as the Lord has apportioned. As God has called each one, thus let him live—and thus I order in all the churches. Was anyone called after being circumcised? He must not undo his circumcision. Was anyone called in uncircumcision? He must not become circumcised.
1 Corinthians 7:17-18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 7:17-18&version=LEB

Paul attributes this particular “order” to “as God has called” and “as the Lord appointed”. Couldn’t be much plainer what he means, really.

https://biblehub.com/greek/1299.htm

It’s where we get our English word for ‘doctor’s order’ (prescription) from.

i don't see this as a command from God - i see this as paul talking to people who have some kind of issue that needs to be settled
And he settled it in a way that explicitly means Gentile Christians couldn’t possibly keep the Torah Law.

this is clearly not a torah issue it is something else
Are you suggesting circumcision isn’t a Torah issue???


paul also said best to stay single
Actually no he told a particular group of people (widows and sexually self-controlled unmarried men) to remain that way. To others (which is kinda the point) he told them they “should marry”:

But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with sexual desire.
1 Corinthians 7:9 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 7:9&version=LEB
 
show me where God said ONLY israelites are to eat or live like this

the thing is if God shows you to live like this then great

if God does not show you to live like this then great

but God did not ever say this is only for israelites

TF,

I've done it already. See Lev 11:1-3.

Experience never is the determinant of God's Law. The text IS.

Your claim is:

God did not ever say this is only for israelites

In Lev 11:1-3 (NIV) God said:

The Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron. He said to them, 2 “Speak to the Israelites. Tell them, ‘Many animals live on land. Here are the only ones you can eat. 3 You can eat any animal that has hooves that are separated completely in two. But it must also chew the cud...​

The Lord did NOT say: 'The Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron. He said to them, 2 “Speak to the Israelites AND THE GENTILES...'

This message of kosher food and dietary restrictions was for the Israelites only. So says the Bible!

This is from a Messianic Perspective (Jewish Roots of Christianity):

Is that Kosher?
The only time most people encounter the expression “is that kosher?” is as a euphemism for “is that ‘legit’ “ but the word kosher has a very specific meaning in the Tanakh (Old Testament). The term kosher comes from the Hebrew word כָּשֵׁר (kasher) meaning “fit” – as in ‘fit for consumption’ and refers to food that is fit to eat according to Jewish dietary law.
The Torah (the Law of God as recorded by Moses) outlines the Jewish dietary laws in Leviticus 11:1-47 and Deuteronomy 14: 3-20, with the passage in Deuteronomy beginning and ending with the underlying reason for them;​
“…you are a holy people belonging to the Lord your God. The Lord has chosen you to be His own possession out of all the peoples on the face of the earth.”​
Leviticus 14:2​

The Jews were called over and over again throughout the Old Testament to live in a manner that distinguished them from the nations [Gentiles] around them; not to go after their gods and not to practice their customs that God described as abominations.​
The Jewish dietary laws, along with circumcision and the practices involving Sabbath and the Feasts delineate the Jews as a people. Jews were to be distinctive so that the nations around us would see us as set apart as a holy people.​
The laws associated with how we as Jews conduct ourselves are collectively known as halakha and are divided into laws of diet, purity and idolatry. Much of the confusion by the early Church Fathers in interpreting texts to do with Jewish dietary laws had to do with a failure to understand that in the Jewish mind of the first century there was a distinction between laws of purity and dietary laws and the laws of idolatry and dietary laws. We will elaborate on this further on in this article as well as a future article on whether Christianity evolved from the Judaism of the second Temple period.​
For Jews, not eating certain foods was never a matter of salvation; eating foods that were unclean was not a sin requiring atonement.​
Leviticus 11 refers to the foods the Jews were not to eat not as unclean or detestable – but as “unclean for you” (Lev 11:8) or “detestable to you” (Lev 11:12, 13a, 20 & Deut 14:7, 14:10, 14:19). In the construct of the phrase “detestable to you” (l’chem hem t’meh-im), the l’ denotes purpose, intention or result. These animals did not possess an objective property called “impurity”; they were not in and by themselves unclean – they were to be considered unclean to us, as Jews – to be considered detestable to us, as Jews. The purpose, intention or result was to delineate us from the nations around us.​
In case we missed it, the reason why were to not eat these foods is repeated again at the end of the lists of animals, fish, birds and insects in Deuteronomy 14:21a.​
“…For you are a holy people belonging to the Lord your God.”​
Deuteronomy 14:21a​

We know these foods were not unclean in and by themselves, because it says in Deuteronomy 14:21b that we can give them to a “temporary resident living within your gates and he may eat it or you may sell it to a foreigner [a Gentile]”. The Law was abundantly clear that we were not to mistreat Gentiles in any way; if these creatures were unclean in themselves and unfit for people to eat, God would not have permitted us to give them or sell them to Gentiles to eat.
So, this Jewish source considers that ...

The Torah (the Law of God as recorded by Moses) outlines the Jewish dietary laws in Leviticus 11:1-47 and Deuteronomy 14: 3-20, with the passage in Deuteronomy beginning and ending with the underlying reason for them;​
“…you are a holy people belonging to the Lord your God. The Lord has chosen you to be His own possession out of all the peoples on the face of the earth.”​
Leviticus 14:2

The Jews were called over and over again throughout the Old Testament to live in a manner that distinguished them from the nations [Gentiles] around them; not to go after their gods and not to practice their customs that God described as abominations.​
With respect, you are the one out of step with what the Jews consider is kosher for Jews only and NOT for the Gentiles.

Oz'
 
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i'm sorry but i don't know what you are talking about specifically

i am replying to more than one person and i don't know if you are talking about the pedagogue post or the 2 different translations

there is no purposeful avoidance on my part - i read what you say and i reply to what stands out to me - if i missed a point that is important to you and posted about something that is important to me then that is a perception issue not avoidance

my pastor says all the time i answered a question he didn't ask - i'm not sure what he is talking about because i thought i was answering his question - him and i are working on this - but so far i still don't know what he is talking about - so i apologize if i see something different than what you meant - if this causes you frustration i understand -

TF,

My question was:

I provided exegesis from the Greek text. Is your meaning from the NKJV more correct than the Greek text of Gal 3:24-25???

Your reply in #122 was:

you used niv - i used nkjv - it is a difference of translation - if you are talking about pedagogue then i can look closer at that post and reply again​

You didn't answer my Q about the Greek text of Gal 3:24-25. I didn't ask about NIV vs NKJV, but that's what you wanted to talk about.

If you don't want to answer my Q re the Greek text, just say so and I'll move on - instead of avoiding the topic and diverting to NIV vs NKJV.

Oz
 
TF,

With me, I'm asking you to read what I write carefully. If need be, please ask me for clarification. At times - no matter what my topic - you are off and running with what you thought I asked but it is really an answer you seem to be comfortable with.

Do you know what that is called?

Oz
 
Correction:

In #165 above, I gave a quote from a Messianic Jewish perspective of kosher food for Jews only and not for Gentiles.

The quote gave an incorrect Bible reference. It stated:

“…you are a holy people belonging to the Lord your God. The Lord has chosen you to be His own possession out of all the peoples on the face of the earth.”​
Leviticus 14:2

The correct reference is Deuteronomy 14:2.

At the time I noticed this error, I tried to correct it on CFnet and I was not allowed to do it, hence the need for this post.

I have advised the website of this reference error.

Blessings,
Oz
 
you could help me if when you make a comprehensive post at the end of the post do a brief recap/highlight - that way i know what exactly you are looking for and can focus my reply - otherwise my attention is caught by something else you said that inspires and impassions me

TF,

I'll try to remember to do this if my posts are a bit long. When I preach I often end the sermon with a summary of the message and then ask a few questions, waiting for the congregation to respond.

I often do that with articles on my homepage, Truth Challenge. I make the summary my 'Conclusion'. See the article, Belief in fate is false doctrine.

Oz
 
TF,

I'll try to remember to do this if my posts are a bit long. When I preach I often end the sermon with a summary of the message and then ask a few questions, waiting for the congregation to respond.

I often do that with articles on my homepage, Truth Challenge. I make the summary my 'Conclusion'. See the article, Belief in fate is false doctrine.

Oz
ok - awesome - then i look forward to giving better answers to your questions

so can you do that now with whichever post you wanted me to reply to while i read your article?
 
But anyway, I fail to see (which doesn’t mean it’s not true of course) how Paul’s instructions to the new Corinthian converts is not plain and simple. And it prohibits circumcising newly called Gentiles. Which means it prohibits following Torah Law completely anyway.
here is a site that lists the 25 scriptures that say the law is for the israelites and the aliens that live with them
 
here is a site that lists the 25 scriptures that say the law is for the israelites and the aliens that live with them

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Foreigners-Included-In-The-Law

TF,

Please read that list of 25 Scriptures carefully. It talks about those who live among the Israelites that they live according to one law.

See this example from the List:

'If an alien sojourns with you, or one who may be among you throughout your generations, and he wishes to make an offering by fire, as a soothing aroma to the LORD, just as you do so he shall do.​


This does not state that the Israelite laws were designed for the Gentiles as well as Jews. Lev 11:1-3 contradicts that.

It states something similar to what happens in the dominant Australian culture. If immigrants, refugees, etc come to this land, they are required to live according to Australian law.

Even so, Gentiles who lived among a dominant Jewish culture, needed to adhere to Jewish laws.

It seems to me that you don't want to hear that information and are raising all kinds of objections to make us believe that the Mosaic Law was for both Jew and Gentile. Not so!

Oz

 
here is a site that lists the 25 scriptures that say the law is for the israelites and the aliens that live with them
Cool. Are you an alien living with the pre-Christian Israelites? I’m not. Thus I don’t see the relevance to my point. But I do think it is and was great to live a life as prescribed by God for you to live.

So, getting back to my point, given the following prescription for how to live a called Christian’s life, should an uncircumcised Christian become circumcised? (Yes or no)

Was anyone called after being circumcised? He must not undo his circumcision. Was anyone called in uncircumcision? He must not become circumcised.
1 Corinthians 7:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 7:18&version=LEB
 
Cool. Are you an alien living with the pre-Christian Israelites? I’m not. Thus I don’t see the relevance to my point. But I do think it is and was great to live a life as prescribed by God for you to live.

So, getting back to my point, given the following prescription for how to live a called Christian’s life, should an uncircumcised Christian become circumcised? (Yes or no)

Was anyone called after being circumcised? He must not undo his circumcision. Was anyone called in uncircumcision? He must not become circumcised.
1 Corinthians 7:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 7:18&version=LEB
should? - no one should

can they? - yes
 
TF,

Please read that list of 25 Scriptures carefully. It talks about those who live among the Israelites that they live according to one law.

See this example from the List:

'If an alien sojourns with you, or one who may be among you throughout your generations, and he wishes to make an offering by fire, as a soothing aroma to the LORD, just as you do so he shall do.​


This does not state that the Israelite laws were designed for the Gentiles as well as Jews. Lev 11:1-3 contradicts that.

It states something similar to what happens in the dominant Australian culture. If immigrants, refugees, etc come to this land, they are required to live according to Australian law.

Even so, Gentiles who lived among a dominant Jewish culture, needed to adhere to Jewish laws.

It seems to me that you don't want to hear that information and are raising all kinds of objections to make us believe that the Mosaic Law was for both Jew and Gentile. Not so!

Oz
if you read the scriptures in context - like Exodus 12:43-49 - you will find that aliens/non-jews are circumcised - keep sabbath - make offerings - and keep the laws of God
 
should? - no one should

can they? - yes

TF,

There are some consequences from adult circumcision:

Adult circumcision can be performed under local or regional anesthesia. Medical indications for this procedure include phimosis, paraphimosis, recurrent balanitis and posthitis (inflammation of the prepuce). Nonmedical reasons may be social, cultural, personal or religious. The procedure is commonly performed using either the dorsal slit or the sleeve technique. The dorsal slit is especially useful in patients who have phimosis. The sleeve technique may provide better control of bleeding in patients with large subcutaneous veins. A dorsal penile nerve block, with or without a circumferential penile block, provides adequate anesthesia. Informed consent must be obtained. Possible complications of adult circumcision include infection, bleeding, poor cosmetic results and a change in sensation during intercourse (Adult Circumcision, American Family Physician. 1999 Mar 15;59(6):1514-1518).​

Oz
 
TF,

There are some consequences from adult circumcision:

Adult circumcision can be performed under local or regional anesthesia. Medical indications for this procedure include phimosis, paraphimosis, recurrent balanitis and posthitis (inflammation of the prepuce). Nonmedical reasons may be social, cultural, personal or religious. The procedure is commonly performed using either the dorsal slit or the sleeve technique. The dorsal slit is especially useful in patients who have phimosis. The sleeve technique may provide better control of bleeding in patients with large subcutaneous veins. A dorsal penile nerve block, with or without a circumferential penile block, provides adequate anesthesia. Informed consent must be obtained. Possible complications of adult circumcision include infection, bleeding, poor cosmetic results and a change in sensation during intercourse (Adult Circumcision, American Family Physician. 1999 Mar 15;59(6):1514-1518).​

Oz
yes - thanks for this - great to be informed
 
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