Some comments Introducing my present reading project

[Willie T]

In The Greatness of the Great Commission, Dr. Gentry makes it clear that the gospel's scope of authority is as broad as the fall of man. The gospel has the power to heal every area of life that man's sin has corrupted. This means that God's kingdom in history is as extensive as Satan's kingdom in history. Furthermore, as surely as Satan's human representatives can rule in history as his kingdom's agents, so are Christians called on by God to exercise dominion in His name. As surely as Satan does not need to sit upon an earthly throne in order to exercise his kingdom's rule through his covenantal agents, so Jesus Christ does not need to sit upon an earthly throne in order to exercise His kingdom's rule through His covenantal agents. Simple, isn't it? But this simple suggestion is emphatically rejected by modern evangelicals. Premillennialists implicitly (and sometimes even explicitly) insist that the power of sin in history is so great that without Jesus' bodily presence on an earthly throne, sin will remain culturally dominant. Amillennialists say the same thing, except that they deny that He will ever sit on an earthly throne in history. Amillennialists are, in R. J. Rushdoony's classic phrase, premillennialists without earthly hope.

Premillennial and amillennial theologians are suspiciously silent regarding the social effects in history of Christ's historical ascension to heaven. This is because they do not want to say in public what they believe in private, namely, that the bodily ascension of Jesus Christ in history has left His people in a less influential position in history than they were in national Israel under Joshua and David. They believe that the Davidic throne in Israel possessed more authority and power than Jesus' throne in heaven. They do not deny that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to the Church to lead the Church into all truth after His ascension,' yet they believe that the Church possesses far less authority or ability to speak to the daily affairs of life than the Old Covenant's Mosaic priesthood did. But because they are so embarrassed — as well they should be — by this theologically necessary conclusion from their views regarding both biblical law and biblical eschatology, they refuse to say any of this in public. They believe it, but they refuse to admit it. Discretion is the better part of pessimillennial valor.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Thanks Willie T. I'll ad this to the books I wish to look up.

 

[Willie T]

Thanks Willie T. I'll ad this to the books I wish to look up.

Well, the book I am actually reading right now (in preparation for Gentry's) is He Shall Have Dominion. It's FREE online.

 

[Truthfrees]

In The Greatness of the Great Commission, Dr. Gentry makes it clear that the gospel's scope of authority is as broad as the fall of man. The gospel has the power to heal every area of life that man's sin has corrupted. This means that God's kingdom in history is as extensive as Satan's kingdom in history. Furthermore, as surely as Satan's human representatives can rule in history as his kingdom's agents, so are Christians called on by God to exercise dominion in His name. As surely as Satan does not need to sit upon an earthly throne in order to exercise his kingdom's rule through his covenantal agents, so Jesus Christ does not need to sit upon an earthly throne in order to exercise His kingdom's rule through His covenantal agents. Simple, isn't it? But this simple suggestion is emphatically rejected by modern evangelicals. Premillennialists implicitly (and sometimes even explicitly) insist that the power of sin in history is so great that without Jesus' bodily presence on an earthly throne, sin will remain culturally dominant. Amillennialists say the same thing, except that they deny that He will ever sit on an earthly throne in history. Amillennialists are, in R. J. Rushdoony's classic phrase, premillennialists without earthly hope.

Premillennial and amillennial theologians are suspiciously silent regarding the social effects in history of Christ's historical ascension to heaven. This is because they do not want to say in public what they believe in private, namely, that the bodily ascension of Jesus Christ in history has left His people in a less influential position in history than they were in national Israel under Joshua and David. They believe that the Davidic throne in Israel possessed more authority and power than Jesus' throne in heaven. They do not deny that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to the Church to lead the Church into all truth after His ascension,' yet they believe that the Church possesses far less authority or ability to speak to the daily affairs of life than the Old Covenant's Mosaic priesthood did. But because they are so embarrassed — as well they should be — by this theologically necessary conclusion from their views regarding both biblical law and biblical eschatology, they refuse to say any of this in public. They believe it, but they refuse to admit it. Discretion is the better part of pessimillennial valor.

very interesting - thank you

 

[dirtfarmer]

In The Greatness of the Great Commission, Dr. Gentry makes it clear that the gospel's scope of authority is as broad as the fall of man. The gospel has the power to heal every area of life that man's sin has corrupted. This means that God's kingdom in history is as extensive as Satan's kingdom in history. Furthermore, as surely as Satan's human representatives can rule in history as his kingdom's agents, so are Christians called on by God to exercise dominion in His name. As surely as Satan does not need to sit upon an earthly throne in order to exercise his kingdom's rule through his covenantal agents, so Jesus Christ does not need to sit upon an earthly throne in order to exercise His kingdom's rule through His covenantal agents. Simple, isn't it? But this simple suggestion is emphatically rejected by modern evangelicals. Premillennialists implicitly (and sometimes even explicitly) insist that the power of sin in history is so great that without Jesus' bodily presence on an earthly throne, sin will remain culturally dominant. Amillennialists say the same thing, except that they deny that He will ever sit on an earthly throne in history. Amillennialists are, in R. J. Rushdoony's classic phrase, premillennialists without earthly hope.

Premillennial and amillennial theologians are suspiciously silent regarding the social effects in history of Christ's historical ascension to heaven. This is because they do not want to say in public what they believe in private, namely, that the bodily ascension of Jesus Christ in history has left His people in a less influential position in history than they were in national Israel under Joshua and David. They believe that the Davidic throne in Israel possessed more authority and power than Jesus' throne in heaven. They do not deny that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to the Church to lead the Church into all truth after His ascension,' yet they believe that the Church possesses far less authority or ability to speak to the daily affairs of life than the Old Covenant's Mosaic priesthood did. But because they are so embarrassed — as well they should be — by this theologically necessary conclusion from their views regarding both biblical law and biblical eschatology, they refuse to say any of this in public. They believe it, but they refuse to admit it. Discretion is the better part of pessimillennial valor.

hello Willie T, dirtfarmer here

Are you a "Word of Faith" person? As a premillennial believer, I am not predisposed to say or believe that the "Church" is less influential in history. I believe that God's promise to Abraham was an earthly kingdom and a heavenly kingdom. There are prophesies that Israel will be re-established as a nation and we have seen those prophesies come to fruition. They are in the condition mentioned in Ezekiel 37, dry bones.

I understand that scripture also tells us of the "snatching out" of the body of believers before the time tribulation . In you concerns about the "Church" having less authority or ability to speak about the daily affairs of life; everyday God give strength to the believer, through the Holy Spirit, to live out the righteousness of Christ. I understand that Christ made the statement that His kingdom was not of this world. Do believers have to live life among the children of Satan? the answer was given by Christ; He prayed that believers would not be taken from this world but that they would not be overcome by the "world system" that Satan is the god of.

I am not a "faith healer", but I do believe in divine healing. I have seen, experienced, divine healing in members of churches that I have pastored. I am not talking about legs being lengthened, nor people throwing down crutches. I am talking about tumors that disappeared the day of surgery and etc. I have seen people receive the exact amount of money needed to pay bills or meet an emergency in their lives. I don't believe in "miracles" but I do believe in divine intervention.

 

[Willie T]

hello Willie T, dirtfarmer here

Are you a "Word of Faith" person? As a premillennial believer, I am not predisposed to say or believe that the "Church" is less influential in history. I believe that God's promise to Abraham was an earthly kingdom and a heavenly kingdom. There are prophesies that Israel will be re-established as a nation and we have seen those prophesies come to fruition. They are in the condition mentioned in Ezekiel 37, dry bones.

I understand that scripture also tells us of the "snatching out" of the body of believers before the time tribulation . In you concerns about the "Church" having less authority or ability to speak about the daily affairs of life; everyday God give strength to the believer, through the Holy Spirit, to live out the righteousness of Christ. I understand that Christ made the statement that His kingdom was not of this world. Do believers have to live life among the children of Satan? the answer was given by Christ; He prayed that believers would not be taken from this world but that they would not be overcome by the "world system" that Satan is the god of.

I am not a "faith healer", but I do believe in divine healing. I have seen, experienced, divine healing in members of churches that I have pastored. I am not talking about legs being lengthened, nor people throwing down crutches. I am talking about tumors that disappeared the day of surgery and etc. I have seen people receive the exact amount of money needed to pay bills or meet an emergency in their lives. I don't believe in "miracles" but I do believe in divine intervention.

To begin with, I would say I am Postmillennial because I believe the great times of tribulation the Bible speaks of occurred from about AD 66-70. And though I believe in faith in the Word, I am not of the "Name-It-And-Claim-It" persuasion.

I probably believe around ten times more strongly in "Healing" than you do, simply because it is not only a daily part of the denomination I align with (The Vineyard Fellowship), but also because both my wife and I have received it and have also been used to empower it to help others.

Theologically, I differ from almost everyone on this forum because I do not believe we live in a "failed attempt" by God to create a following. Most here believe Satan's power in this present age is stronger than God's. If they did not, they would believe that God does not have to wait till the final moment to triumph over Satan. But, that is not the predominate belief. Most people feel God is pretty helpless to do much of anything in the here-and-now, but sit and wait till He is forced to destroy all of His beautiful creation. If you had to put a label on it, I guess you could say I lean more toward Christian Reconstructionism than anything else.... though I can't go as far as they seem to want to go in returning to Liturgy and retributive laws.

That "Defeatism" and "Retreatism" is not my belief. I believe God's power TODAY is the stronger....... and that it is only US who are failing (on a daily basis) in carrying out His Great Commission to us. We build churches and hide inside them, satisfying ourselves that the small amount of money we drop into a gold plate each Sunday is our sufficient effort toward "supporting" a missionary or two who are off somewhere among the natives, supposedly doing that work Jesus gave US to do.

 

[dirtfarmer]

To begin with, I would say I am Postmillennial because I believe the great times of tribulation the Bible speaks of occurred from about AD 66-70. And though I believe in faith in the Word, I am not of the "Name-It-And-Claim-It" persuasion.

I probably believe around ten times more strongly in "Healing" than you do, simply because it is not only a daily part of the denomination I align with (The Vineyard Fellowship), but also because both my wife and I have received it and have also been used to empower it to help others.

Theologically, I differ from almost everyone on this forum because I do not believe we live in a "failed attempt" by God to create a following. Most here believe Satan's power in this present age is stronger than God's. If they did not, they would believe that God does not have to wait till the final moment to triumph over Satan. But, that is not the predominate belief. Most people feel God is pretty helpless to do much of anything in the here-and-now, but sit and wait till He is forced to destroy all of His beautiful creation. If you had to put a label on it, I guess you could say I lean more toward Christian Reconstructionism than anything else.... though I can't go as far as they seem to want to go in returning to Liturgy and retributive laws.

That "Defeatism" and "Retreatism" is not my belief. I believe God's power TODAY is the stronger....... and that it is only US who are failing (on a daily basis) in carrying out His Great Commission to us. We build churches and hide inside them, satisfying ourselves that the small amount of money we drop into a gold plate each Sunday is our sufficient effort toward "supporting" a missionary or two who are off somewhere among the natives, supposedly doing that work Jesus gave US to do.

hello Willie T, dirtfarmer here

It is my belief that Satan was issued defeat at the resurrection of Christ. When Satan usurped the right to rule over the earth from Adam, this world became his. That is why when Jesus was carried into the wilderness to be tempted Satan could offer him all the kingdoms of this world. The tribulation is Christ taking back the title deed to this earth from Satan and making it part of his kingdom. Never forget that God is sovereign.

As to "Christian Reconstructionism", if that is making all thing new, then I could be classified as that.

As to creation, we are told that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom( 1 Corinthians 15:50), therefore, it is my belief that Adam and Eve were created subject to physical death.

As to Matthew 28:18- 20, the "Great Commission", that was spoken to "the eleven" and speaks of the earthly kingdom that is to established after the "tribulation" period. I am not J.W. but I do see from scripture a saving of all Israel after that period of tribulation; the 12,000 from the 12 tribes mentioned in Revelation.

The building with steeples are not the church. The Church is his body that is saved during "the times of the Gentiles". God is not interested in the money that people donate to organization of church, but he is interested in "the living sacrifice that is to be daily and should be done to His glory. If you only worship on Sunday then you are failing God. We are to worship daily by the life that Christ lives through us or should live through us.

As to missionaries, that is another subject to be discussed, but my belief is that we are missionaries everyday by the way we live our life in our surroundings. Most people don't know or understand that we (believers) are the only bible that a lost and dying world ever reads. We should ask:" What is the world reading by the way that I live among them?"
dirtfarmer

 

[ezra]

I believe God's power TODAY is the stronger....... and that it is only US who are failing (on a daily basis) in carrying out His Great Commission to us. We build churches and hide inside them, satisfying ourselves that the small amount of money we drop into a gold plate each Sunday is our sufficient effort toward "supporting" a missionary or two who are off somewhere among the natives, supposedly doing that work Jesus gave US to do.

i can agree with this....our biggest enemy is not the devil but US yes us he Has given us all things 2 peter 1;3 His divine power has given us everything required for life and godliness through the knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.