Something that got to me

[jesus lover]

In genesis 35:18 it says her soul was departing.Not she was departing.But in psalms 90:10 it says we fly away.Not "our soul flies away".Sorry if i have posted this before.

A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

The above passages are consistent because they mention either the spirit or soul. We should expect all passages about death to follow the same design, yet we do not see this in two favorite proof texts against soul sleep. In Luke 23:43, for example, Jesus does not tell the thief that his soul will be with Jesus. Paul also ignores this pattern because he does not say his soul will be with Christ in Philippians 1:23. These two texts are clearly different from passages that emphasize death.

Instead, Luke 23:43 and Philippians 1:23 resemble Scriptures that emphasize the resurrection. Numerous passages say we will be with Christ when He returns (e.g. John 5:28-29, 6:39-40, 44, 54, 11:24, 1 Corinthians 15:22-23, Colossians 3:4, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). Why are Luke 23:43 and Philippians 1:23 different from these other texts?

Soul sleep follows a consistent pattern of interpretation. When the passage does not mention spirit or soul, it talks about the whole person. In Luke 23:43, Jesus makes the promise that day about the resurrection; in Philippians 1:23, Paul ignores the time of unconsciousness between death and resurrectionbecause it is irrelevant. These two inconclusive passages should not be overemphasized at the expense of numerous other verses that support soul sleep.

Traditionalists are very subjective and inconsistent when they interpret these passages. If the passage could support conditionalism, they insist it is only talking about the body; if the passage could support continued consciousness, they insist it is talking about the soul outside the body. Since their minds are already made up, God's Word is of no effect (Mark 7:13)

And in case anybody was wondering my info came from this site:http://wordonly.net/CI07.html

 

[Eugene]

.
Hi Jesus Lover and welcome. All I can add to your comments here is that which the Apostle Paul said in:
2Co 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. (And he did in Gal 1:12)
2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

A similar occurence may have been when we read in Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet. This shows John to have caught forward to the time of the Day of our Lord when Jesus shall receive His own throne in heaven beginning His 1000 year reign in Rev 4:2. and that to be approximately 2000+ years future from the time he was on Patmos for the word of God. Rev 1:10.

Another thought is that of:
2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[Jim Parker]

In genesis 35:18 it says her soul was departing.Not she was departing.But in psalms 90:10 it says we fly away.Not "our soul flies away".Sorry if i have posted this before.

A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

The above passages are consistent because they mention either the spirit or soul. We should expect all passages about death to follow the same design, yet we do not see this in two favorite proof texts against soul sleep. In Luke 23:43, for example, Jesus does not tell the thief that his soul will be with Jesus. Paul also ignores this pattern because he does not say his soul will be with Christ in Philippians 1:23. These two texts are clearly different from passages that emphasize death.

Instead, Luke 23:43 and Philippians 1:23 resemble Scriptures that emphasize the resurrection. Numerous passages say we will be with Christ when He returns (e.g. John 5:28-29, 6:39-40, 44, 54, 11:24, 1 Corinthians 15:22-23, Colossians 3:4, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). Why are Luke 23:43 and Philippians 1:23 different from these other texts?

Soul sleep follows a consistent pattern of interpretation. When the passage does not mention spirit or soul, it talks about the whole person. In Luke 23:43, Jesus makes the promise that day about the resurrection; in Philippians 1:23, Paul ignores the time of unconsciousness between death and resurrectionbecause it is irrelevant. These two inconclusive passages should not be overemphasized at the expense of numerous other verses that support soul sleep.

Traditionalists are very subjective and inconsistent when they interpret these passages. If the passage could support conditionalism, they insist it is only talking about the body; if the passage could support continued consciousness, they insist it is talking about the soul outside the body. Since their minds are already made up, God's Word is of no effect (Mark 7:13)

And in case anybody was wondering my info came from this site:http://wordonly.net/CI07.html

Take a step back.
BY wanting "consistency" you are actually wanting to impose modern, western, English language and culture upon the literature and culture of ancient, near eastern poetry and prose.
It's not the writing that has a problem,; it is your assumption that the translation should make that ancient literature from an ancient, eastern culture fit into modern western culture and the English language.

iakovos the fool

 

[Watching Thomas]

In genesis 35:18 it says her soul was departing.Not she was departing.But in psalms 90:10 it says we fly away.Not "our soul flies away".Sorry if i have posted this before.

HI Jesus lover, you do seem to like to pose curly questions. Unfortunately, the Bible presents plenty of material on which to base tricky questions. I do not have any answer for you regarding your topic of soul sleep. Personally, when I am dead I trust Jesus 100% to get me to heaven (John 14:2). How he does it holds no interest for me, the outcome is assured and it makes no difference to how I live now.

Just a general point about the Bible, it has 66 books and maybe 35 authors and was written over a huge time span and in three languages. Some of the ancient words used in the Bible in the other languages were scorned for a time as being 'made-up' by the writers but later research on old languages found that those words were not made up but common words of the time. So as research continues, various 'problems' with the Bible have been found not to be problems at all. No point getting flustered about minor aspects that may seem inconsistent as the key things are clear.

The Bible is God's word and God is perfect. However, I believe God has made the Bible seem inconsistent in places to encourage us to put our faith in Him and our trust in Him and our hope in Him. We are not to love the Bible more than Him. No Bible died to save us from our sins. The Bible is the Lord's tool and not to be worshiped. We can have an awesome relationship with God even if some parts of Scripture may not make as much sense to us now as we may prefer. When we are in heaven I am confident the Lord can give us insight into the tricky bits in the Bible and we will be amazed. Until then, as Paul said, we see as if into a glass darkly 1 Corinthians 13:12.

Watching Thomas

 

[Jim Parker]

I believe God has made the Bible seem inconsistent in places to encourage us to put our faith in Him and our trust in Him and our hope in Him.

God's word is not inconsistent.
Our understanding is limited and flawed.
And translating His word to an ancient near eastern culture into something that we can understand in a modern, western culture is a very difficult task.

Remember you are reading literature. It is history, poetry, narrative, metaphor, parable, pun, tradition, and every literary device used by man in written communication.

 

[Watching Thomas]

God's word is not inconsistent.
Our understanding is limited and flawed.
And translating His word to an ancient near eastern culture into something that we can understand in a modern, western culture is a very difficult task.

Remember you are reading literature. It is history, poetry, narrative, metaphor, parable, pun, tradition, and every literary device used by man in written communication.

Yup, that's what I wus meaning. Thank you Jim

Watching Thomas