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Son of Man coming in clouds of "judgement?"

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#1
The following is Isaiah's symbolism of the coming of the Lord upon a swift cloud against Egypt:

"The burden of Egypt. Behold, the Lord rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it." (Isaiah 19:1)

The "Lord" in that event is actually the armies of the king of Assyria:

"So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt. And they shall be afraid and ashamed of Ethiopia their expectation, and of Egypt their glory. And the inhabitant of this isle shall say in that day, Behold, such is our expectation, whither we flee for help to be delivered from the king of Assyria: and how shall we escape?" (Isaiah 20:4-5)


We had the similar situation in Jesus's prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, where we have the armies coming against the city, and the Lord coming in the clouds with power:

"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory." (Luke 21:27)

"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:20-22)

We also have this parable of a similar event where the "king" sent forth his armies in vengeance for the murder of his servants:

"But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city." (Matthew 22:7)


Question: was the "Son of man coming in the clouds with power" in reality the Lord sending the Roman Armies against Jerusalem in vengeance and judgement?

Dan
 
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#2
Maybe this will kickstart this thread:

This is another example of the Lord "coming with clouds" that may have something other than a literal meaning:

Pslams 104
1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.


Note that verse 5 also questions the literal translation of the "no more sea" prophecy in the Revelation:

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Rev 21:1)

Another verse that significantly reduces the chance that the verse above is literal is:

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy." (Rev 13:1)

And there are these which, along with Psalms 104:5 from above, tend to refute the notion that the final judgement is the end of life as we know it

"One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever." (Eccl 1:4)

"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." (Rev 22:2)


And there is always this supporting verse to consider:

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." (John 3:17)

Dan
 

JLB

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#3
Maybe this will kickstart this thread:

This is another example of the Lord "coming with clouds" that may have something other than a literal meaning:

Pslams 104
1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.


Note that verse 5 also questions the literal translation of the "no more sea" prophecy in the Revelation:

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Rev 21:1)

Another verse that significantly reduces the chance that the verse above is literal is:

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy." (Rev 13:1)

And there are these which, along with Psalms 104:5 from above, tend to refute the notion that the final judgement is the end of life as we know it

"One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever." (Eccl 1:4)

"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." (Rev 22:2)


And there is always this supporting verse to consider:

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." (John 3:17)

Dan
There is absolutely no comparison what so ever in these two scriptures.

They will see the son of Man and mourn. This is from Zechariah 12:10.

"And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10

Unmistakable. It is clear and plain, from the reaction from those who see Him, they will mourn!

This scripture is also, referred to in Revelation.

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7

Jesus Christ will be revealed to the whole world when He Comes.

This is the safeguard He gave us against deception, in the last days.

Look at what He taught...

Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Matthew 24:23-27


Can you see what He is saying?

Don't be fooled by those claiming to be The Christ. If anyone tries to tell you, The Christ is here or there, don't be deceived.

For when The Son of Man Comes and is revealed, no one will have to tell you I'm have returned, for all will see Me.

Ever eye will see Me!


JLB
 
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#4
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

What is the significance of the sun, moon, and stars? Was it hyperbole, and exageration? What did they signify in the OT? More importantly what would the apostles have understood them to signify?

Here is what Isaiah said when he prophesied the destruction of Babylon by the Medes in 539 B.C. Notice the world that is punished, is it the whole world, or is it the Babyloian world? Their government, their system,(sun, moon, stars)

Isa 13:1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

and here... Isaiah prophesied the fall of Edom....

Isa 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
Isa 34:5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

and here Amos prophesied the destruction of Samaria ...

Amo 8:8 Shall not the land tremble for this, and every one mourn that dwelleth therein? and it shall rise up wholly as a flood; and it shall be cast out and drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.
Amo 8:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:

Here's Ezekiel prophesying about the destruction of Egypt...

Eze 32:7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
Eze 32:8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD.

"I shall put out" the Lord put out their lights and left them in darkness, in each case above.
So in Matthew 24:29, we can see and understand just what the apostles, hearing these prophets read in the synagogues through out their lives, would have understood. The prophetic language used by the prophets.
The sun, moon, and stars signified Israel, just as Joseph's dream did.
And it was their world (government, system) that was over.
 

JLB

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#5
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

What is the significance of the sun, moon, and stars? Was it hyperbole, and exageration? What did they signify in the OT? More importantly what would the apostles have understood them to signify?

Here is what Isaiah said when he prophesied the destruction of Babylon by the Medes in 539 B.C. Notice the world that is punished, is it the whole world, or is it the Babyloian world? Their government, their system,(sun, moon, stars)

Isa 13:1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

and here... Isaiah prophesied the fall of Edom....

Isa 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
Isa 34:5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

and here Amos prophesied the destruction of Samaria ...

Amo 8:8 Shall not the land tremble for this, and every one mourn that dwelleth therein? and it shall rise up wholly as a flood; and it shall be cast out and drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.
Amo 8:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:

Here's Ezekiel prophesying about the destruction of Egypt...

Eze 32:7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
Eze 32:8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD.

"I shall put out" the Lord put out their lights and left them in darkness, in each case above.
So in Matthew 24:29, we can see and understand just what the apostles, hearing these prophets read in the synagogues through out their lives, would have understood. The prophetic language used by the prophets.
The sun, moon, and stars signified Israel, just as Joseph's dream did.
And it was their world (government, system) that was over.

How does one "see" a Hyperbole?

Jesus said when you "see" all these things.

32 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the door Matthew 24:32-33


Jesus said all the tribes of the earth will see The son of Man coming in the clouds, and mourn.

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15-21


When you see the Abomination of Desolation.

When you see the signs in the heavens.

You will see The son of Man coming in the clouds...

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

This same Jesus will come in like manner, as you saw Him go!

JLB



 
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#6
How does one "see" a Hyperbole?

Jesus said when you "see" all these things.

32 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the door Matthew 24:32-33


Jesus said all the tribes of the earth will see The son of Man coming in the clouds, and mourn.

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15-21


When you see the Abomination of Desolation.

When you see the signs in the heavens.

You will see The son of Man coming in the clouds...

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

This same Jesus will come in like manner, as you saw Him go!

JLB
Totally different scripture than what you have quoted.
And no, none of it is hyperbole, that was a rhetorical question. :blush
 
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#7
Jesus said we will never see him again:

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;" (John 16:7-10)

If we never see Jesus again, how does He come in the clouds?

Dan
 

JLB

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#8
Jesus said we will never see him again:

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;" (John 16:7-10)

If we never see Jesus again, how does He come in the clouds?

Dan
13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. 16 "A little while, and you will not see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me, because I go to the Father." John 16:13-16

and again a little while, and you will see Me, because I go to the Father."

and again -

"A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. John 14:19


JLB
 
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#9
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

What is the significance of the sun, moon, and stars? Was it hyperbole, and exageration? What did they signify in the OT? More importantly what would the apostles have understood them to signify?

Here is what Isaiah said when he prophesied the destruction of Babylon by the Medes in 539 B.C. Notice the world that is punished, is it the whole world, or is it the Babyloian world? Their government, their system,(sun, moon, stars)

Isa 13:1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

and here... Isaiah prophesied the fall of Edom....

Isa 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
Isa 34:5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

and here Amos prophesied the destruction of Samaria ...

Amo 8:8 Shall not the land tremble for this, and every one mourn that dwelleth therein? and it shall rise up wholly as a flood; and it shall be cast out and drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.
Amo 8:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:

Here's Ezekiel prophesying about the destruction of Egypt...

Eze 32:7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
Eze 32:8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD.

"I shall put out" the Lord put out their lights and left them in darkness, in each case above.
So in Matthew 24:29, we can see and understand just what the apostles, hearing these prophets read in the synagogues through out their lives, would have understood. The prophetic language used by the prophets.
The sun, moon, and stars signified Israel, just as Joseph's dream did.
And it was their world (government, system) that was over.
Excellent examples!:salute
 

JLB

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#12
Prophetic symbolic apocalyptic biblical language that came to pass, just as prophesied.:woot2
Which would make the phrase " when you see the armies surround Jerusalem" symbolic as we'll.

JLB
 
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#14
Luke 21:20 was written largely for Gentiles, so it spells out what the 'abomination of desolation' spoken of by Daniel is exactly. This was not necessary in Matt 24:15 which describes the very same conversation, but to a largely Jewish audience that would have been familiar with the OT imagery, thus only the reminder to 'understand'.

Literal language for ignorant Gentiles:
Luk 21:20

And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21

Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Symbolic language for understanding Jews:
Mat 24:15

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
And again:
Mar 13:14

But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
 

JLB

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#15
Luke 21:20 was written largely for Gentiles, so it spells out what the 'abomination of desolation' spoken of by Daniel is exactly. This was not necessary in Matt 24:15 which describes the very same conversation, but to a largely Jewish audience that would have been familiar with the OT imagery, thus only the reminder to 'understand'.

Literal language for ignorant Gentiles:
Luk 21:20

And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21

Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Symbolic language for understanding Jews:
Mat 24:15

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
And again:
Mar 13:14

But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

This is a literal statement meant to be taken literally.

"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.

This is also a literal statement meant to be taken literally -

"Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),


The problem Preterism has is, these are two different sets of instructions.

One is when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies... meaning the armies are still outside of the city.

There other instruction is given when a person is inside the temple area, and has access to visually see the Holy Place inside the Temple area.

One warning has to do with the physical destruction of the city.

The other has to do with the defilement of the temple.

Two different sets of instructions involving the same place, Jerusalem.

Daniel gives us understanding to know these things.

Zechariah 12 is the prophecy that Jesus is referring to in The Olivet Discourse. This prophecy has both the surrounding of Jerusalem and the return of The Lord, whereby He is seen by the people and they mourn. -

1 The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: 2 "Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of drunkenness to all the surrounding peoples, when they lay siege against Judah and Jerusalem.
10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:1-2,10


This Event is FUTURE!


JLB
 
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#16
The verses are all of the Olivet Discourse, and describe the same conversation; literally to ignorant Gentiles, and figuratively to understanding Jews (with parenthetical instructions to 'slower' Jews). From a 'chosen people' perspective, pagan armies in the Holy Land, surrounding your capital which includes the temple of your God, is itself an abomination that, given historical precedent, usually leads to the desolation of said capital. Daniel 11:31 correctly prophesied the desolation of Jerusalem due to Antiochus IV Epiphanes. In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus is telling them to expect a similar catastrophe, yet worse.
 

JLB

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#17
The verses are all of the Olivet Discourse, and describe the same conversation; literally to ignorant Gentiles, and figuratively to understanding Jews (with parenthetical instructions to 'slower' Jews). From a 'chosen people' perspective, pagan armies in the Holy Land, surrounding your capital which includes the temple of your God, is itself an abomination that, given historical precedent, usually leads to the desolation of said capital. Daniel 11:31 correctly prophesied the desolation of Jerusalem due to Antiochus IV Epiphanes. In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus is telling them to expect a similar catastrophe, yet worse.
He will come once more at the end of the age.

As it is written -

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

The scriptures clearly teach He will come a second time.

Now, if you believe He already came in 70 AD, then that means He will not come again.

Is that what you believe Sinthesis?

JLB
 
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#18
This is a literal statement meant to be taken literally.

"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.

This is also a literal statement meant to be taken literally -

"Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),


The problem Preterism has is, these are two different sets of instructions.

One is when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies... meaning the armies are still outside of the city.

There other instruction is given when a person is inside the temple area, and has access to visually see the Holy Place inside the Temple area.

One warning has to do with the physical destruction of the city.

The other has to do with the defilement of the temple.

Two different sets of instructions involving the same place, Jerusalem.

Daniel gives us understanding to know these things.

Zechariah 12 is the prophecy that Jesus is referring to in The Olivet Discourse. This prophecy has both the surrounding of Jerusalem and the return of The Lord, whereby He is seen by the people and they mourn. -

1 The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: 2 "Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of drunkenness to all the surrounding peoples, when they lay siege against Judah and Jerusalem.
10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:1-2,10


This Event is FUTURE!


JLB
This is how I see this book.

Zechariah is about returning to Jerusalem from the Babylonian captivity. The building of the second temple.
The coming of Messiah (first advent), His death, (Father forgive them they know not what they do), the pouring out of His Spirit (many see now what they did), the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70, God continuing to fight for His remnant and all those of His Body (v. 3 is a difficult verse), and the future coming of our Lord. From this point I think it is future.
Zechariah compares to Matthew 24. It's been partially fulfilled.
 
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#20
Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

These be the days of vengeance, "that all things which are written may be fulfilled" Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

All things which are written haven't been fulfilled yet..The powers of heaven haven't been shaken yet.. as we speak all of the nations of the world are planning their battle strategy in order to wipe Israel off the map or so they'd like to think.. Then as it says in Zechariah..

Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

tob
 

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