SOUL SLEEP - TRUE/FALSE

[DRS81]

I believe soul sleep is truth, because we are not walking around as breath in the third heaven. Let's discuss.

The eyes, ears, brain, arms and legs are all connected to our bodies, and our bodies will be resurrected at the first resurrection. Don't you need eyes, ears, a brain, arms and legs to be in relationship with Jesus in heaven? There is only one resurrection for your body and soul, and that's the first resurrection. The first resurrection is biblical, spirit ghosts are not. The third heaven where Jesus resides right now is not reserved for human spirits. It is only reserved for the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit to heal, convict and obtain sovereignty over the world. Nothing more. 2 Cor 5:3, Eccl 12:7, Rev 20:4-6 does not say that after you die you automatically spring to life. No, it's saying they come to life specifically after the first resurrection and the great white throne. This is your time line. The Bible gives us a time line of when this occurs, but everybody seems to want to ignore this.

2 Cor 5:3 (Edit, 2 Cor 5:3, NLT. Obadiah) For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies.

Eccl 12:7 is referring to your spirit. Your spirit is the breath of God, it is breath. It is not ghostly figures walking around like Hollywood movies portray it. God is not saying that when you die you are walking around the third heaven as breath, that's ludicrous. Breath is a substance FROM GOD that gave your soul and body life! Without your body, breath does not exist. Eccl 12:7 is simply God taking back what is his, and that is HIS breath given to us as a gift. If people say you go straight to heaven after you die then wouldn't you need a brain to talk to Jesus? Wouldn't you need arms and legs to run and hug Jesus?? Wouldn't you need eyes and ears to SEE and HEAR Jesus! You need a brain, eyes, ears, arms and legs to do these things. And our brain, eyes, ears, arms and legs are connected to our body which will be resurrected at the first resurrection.

Eccl 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Rev 20:4-6 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

 

[DRS81]

Gen 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

 

[gr8grace3]

I believe soul sleep is false.I am Just asking questions to better see your position.

Eternal life. It is THE life, HIS life that we have the moment we believe. So I see, soul sleep as distinguishing HIS life. Because our eternal life is HIS life. And eternal means just that. Its eternity. So if we soul sleep when we die, it could not be called eternal LIFE.

SO if our eternal Life, which is HIS life in the first place is put on "hold." I see a contradiction. Can you please explain to me how it is not.

 

[DRS81]

Phil 1:21-23 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. 1:23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;

Verse 21 - Is speaking about dying to flesh and walking in the spirit while you are alive on this earth, putting away sinful desires
Verse 22 - Clearly says, "But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me."

These are two different circumstances, Paul is saying if we die to flesh on this earth we are walking in the spirit. And walking in the spirit produces fruitful labor. Paul can't decide if he wants to continue being blessed by God when he is still alive, or die and be with God himself. Phil 1:21-23 however does not speak of a timeline, it only speaks of Paul's anxious heart.

 

[Kathi]

Soul sleep is false doctrine and it not Biblical.

 

[gr8grace3]

Phil 1:21-23 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. 1:23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;

Verse 21 - Is speaking about dying to flesh and walking in the spirit while you are alive on this earth, putting away sinful desires
Verse 22 - Clearly says, "But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me."

These are two different circumstances, Paul is saying if we die to flesh on this earth we are walking in the spirit. And walking in the spirit produces fruitful labor. Paul can't decide if he wants to continue being blessed by God when he is still alive, or die and be with God himself. Phil 1:21-23 however does not speak of a timeline, it only speaks of Paul's anxious heart.

I agree on the point that Paul is considering the choice of fruitful labor and his death.......1:23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;

To depart~~avaluw 0360 aor act --- -- ---infn I am departing 11.....Aorist tense, it is an instant in time.

Be with(Christ)~~eimi 1510 pres act --- -- ---infn to be 15.....Present tense, Continuous action in the present....face to face with the Lord. And Eimi in the Greek portrays the absolute status quo existence of that situation.

The instant you depart you are Present with the Lord.

 

[DRS81]

I believe soul sleep is false.I am Just asking questions to better see your position.

Eternal life. It is THE life, HIS life that we have the moment we believe. So I see, soul sleep as distinguishing HIS life. Because our eternal life is HIS life. And eternal means just that. Its eternity. So if we soul sleep when we die, it could not be called eternal LIFE.

SO if our eternal Life, which is HIS life in the first place is put on "hold." I see a contradiction. Can you please explain to me how it is not.

But we are resurrected into eternal life at the first resurrection. By accepting Jesus as your Savior you are given the gift of eternal life. And we receive this eternal life at the first resurrection.

 

[Kathi]

You guys need to let it go.You are never going to agree

 

[DRS81]

You guys need to let it go.You are never going to agree

Discussing things is how we learn.

 

[Kathi]

Discussing things is how we learn.

Or it can get....argumentive.Where neither is going to give up because they think they are right.

 

[gr8grace3]

But we are resurrected into eternal life at the first resurrection. By accepting Jesus as your Savior you are given the gift of eternal life. And we receive this eternal life at the first resurrection.

1 John 5:13~~NASB~~These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

ecw 2192 pres act ind 2p ---verb *esteems/have ......Present tense.Continuous action in the present. "I am washing."

 

[gr8grace3]

Or it can get....argumentive.Where neither is going to give up because they think they are right.

No, Hes a brother in Christ. I believe scripture shows that soul sleep is false and am willing to show it. If I see something from scripture to change my mind I am willing to back off and reconsider.

 

[DRS81]

I agree on the point that Paul is considering the choice of fruitful labor and his death.......1:23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;

To depart~~avaluw 0360 aor act --- -- ---infn I am departing 11.....Aorist tense, it is an instant in time.

Be with(Christ)~~eimi 1510 pres act --- -- ---infn to be 15.....Present tense, Continuous action in the present....face to face with the Lord. And Eimi in the Greek portrays the absolute status quo existence of that situation.

The instant you depart you are Present with the Lord.

Departing is describing yourself leaving this old world. To go away leave.

verb (used without object) http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/depart?s=t
1. to go away; leave: She departed from Paris today. The train departs at 10:52.
2. to diverge or deviate (usually followed by from):
The new method departs from the old in several respects.
3. to pass away, as from life or existence; die.

Or it can get....argumentive.Where neither is going to give up because they think they are right.

That's why it's in the apologetics forum.

1 John 5:13~~NASB~~These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

ecw 2192 pres act ind 2p ---verb *esteems/have ......Present tense.Continuous action in the present. "I am washing."

Yup, and we receive eternal life at the first resurrection. What is ecw 2192?

 

[DRS81]

Be with(Christ)~~eimi 1510 pres act --- -- ---infn to be 15.....Present tense, Continuous action in the present....face to face with the Lord. And Eimi in the Greek portrays the absolute status quo existence of that situation.

The instant you depart you are Present with the Lord.

What is eimi 1510. What reference are you getting this from.

 

[Eugene]

My question would be how John was able to see those slain, how without some form they could speak, if asleep why they would care what was occurring, their non-bodies were adorned with white robes, and on top of that they were told more or less to not worry about it?

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

[Deborah13]

My question would be how John was able to see those slain, how without some form they could speak, if asleep why they would care what was occurring, their non-bodies were adorned with white robes, and on top of that they were told more or less to not worry about it?

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

lol, non-bodies wearing robes of white. I agree with you.
I have heard someone say that spirits without bodies could not be clothed. What?
Are angels running around naked?

 

[DRS81]

My question would be how John was able to see those slain, how without some form they could speak, if asleep why they would care what was occurring, their non-bodies were adorned with white robes, and on top of that they were told more or less to not worry about it?

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Rev 6:9 is simply a vision give to John in regards to every single christian who was persecuted for 2,000 years.
Rev 6:10 - From the same vision continued from verse 9.
Rev 6:11 - From the same vision continued from verse 9 and 10.

These souls under the alter are not crying from the third heaven right now. No, this is a vision. A vision is a vision is a vision is a vision etc etc etc....

 

[JLB]

Soul Sleep is completely False.


JLB

 

[DRS81]

Soul Sleep is completely False.


JLB

Prove it.

 

[jasonc]

Rev 6:9 is simply a vision give to John in regards to every single christian who was persecuted for 2,000 years.
Rev 6:10 - From the same vision continued from verse 9.
Rev 6:11 - From the same vision continued from verse 9 and 10.

These souls under the alter are not crying from the third heaven right now. No, this is a vision. A vision is a vision is a vision is a vision etc etc etc....

so god doesn't exist because he is a vision? I don't take visions of things to be literal but there are something seen that are shown to be literal place to be shown as best as we can understand it.

show me how on earth the Hebrews in their own tounge, call sheol a grave? I have laid to rest three of my kin. they don't believe in soul sleep.