Spiritual survival in the endtime

[Endtime_Survivors]

Hi all,

When it comes to survival, the physical is usually the most immediate and practical. But there's a lot in the Gospels and the Revelation relating to spiritual survival, too and often in the context of the physical actually being a distraction to the spiritual. One definition of "survive" which is rarely used these days is that of "living above". This is especially true when we talk about spiritual suvival. There is a spiritual life beyond this physical. Things like pain, suffering, and death are very real, but they are temporary. Jesus said, "those who seek to gain their life will lose it and those who lose thier life will gain it" and "not a hair of your head will be harmed" just after teaching about how we will be betrayed, hated, and killed for the gospel's sake.

He believed that the spiritual, immortal life was more important than the temporary, physical life and that in order to appreciate the spiritual we must be willing to let go of the physical. In the Revelation, the saints are only able to overcome the Beast because they "loved not their lives unto the death" (Revelation 12:11).

No amount of physical preparation will make a difference if we are not spiritually prepared. In Revelation 19:10 an angel tells John, "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" which makes perfect sense since the Revelation is a revelation of Jesus (Revelation 1:1). If we want to be spiritually prepared then we must interpret the Revelation through the life and teachings of Jesus.

My friends and I have created an animated video series which we believe will do this. I'll post the trailer below. The channel will contain a variety of videos both on physical and spiritual preparation for the endtime. I look forward to hearing what you all think.

 

[Eugene]

.
Hi, and I would have to ask if you're speaking of Christians we see that are caught up to God's throne out of great tribulation in Rev 7:14? There are also those of the world that will be looking to the wrong source for their deliverance.
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Thanks.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi all,

When it comes to survival, the physical is usually the most immediate and practical. But there's a lot in the Gospels and the Revelation relating to spiritual survival, too and often in the context of the physical actually being a distraction to the spiritual. One definition of "survive" which is rarely used these days is that of "living above". This is especially true when we talk about spiritual suvival. There is a spiritual life beyond this physical. Things like pain, suffering, and death are very real, but they are temporary. Jesus said, "those who seek to gain their life will lose it and those who lose thier life will gain it" and "not a hair of your head will be harmed" just after teaching about how we will be betrayed, hated, and killed for the gospel's sake.

He believed that the spiritual, immortal life was more important than the temporary, physical life and that in order to appreciate the spiritual we must be willing to let go of the physical. In the Revelation, the saints are only able to overcome the Beast because they "loved not their lives unto the death" (Revelation 12:11).

No amount of physical preparation will make a difference if we are not spiritually prepared. In Revelation 19:10 an angel tells John, "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" which makes perfect sense since the Revelation is a revelation of Jesus (Revelation 1:1). If we want to be spiritually prepared then we must interpret the Revelation through the life and teachings of Jesus.

My friends and I have created an animated video series which we believe will do this. I'll post the trailer below. The channel will contain a variety of videos both on physical and spiritual preparation for the endtime. I look forward to hearing what you all think.

I can't open videos, but do agree with what you said.

Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[Endtime_Survivors]

.
Hi, and I would have to ask if you're speaking of Christians we see that are caught up to God's throne out of great tribulation in Rev 7:14? There are also those of the world that will be looking to the wrong source for their deliverance.
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Thanks.

Hi Eugene. I'm not quite sure if I understood your references in the context that you meant to apply them.

I believe that Christians will be around for the Great Tribulation. Christians need spiritual preparation in any time period, but especially more so as events in the Revelation start to take shape in the world around us (like the Mark of the Beast and the GT).

 

[Eugene]

Hi Eugene. I'm not quite sure if I understood your references in the context that you meant to apply them.

I believe that Christians will be around for the Great Tribulation. Christians need spiritual preparation in any time period, but especially more so as events in the Revelation start to take shape in the world around us (like the Mark of the Beast and the GT).

Well I certainly believe some Christians will be present on earth and enter the tribulation, and some being sealed unto God during that time as the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb according to Rev 14:4. But I also believe those with Jesus in Rev 4:4 & Rev 4:6 were prepared to be kept from the temptation to come upon all the world as Philadelphia is told in Rev 3:10. They are with Jesus face prior to the tribulation even beginning.

How were they prepared? Smyrna for instance in Rev 2:10 remained faithful unto death, and Philadelphia in Rev 3:10 was commended for faithfully keeping the word of God. The remainder of the Church was told to repent.
Paul said it this way concerning our preparation in:
2 Cor 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
2 Cor 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Now I ask how this applies to the order presented us in 1 Th 4:15-17? Does Smyrna represent those whose bodies sleep, and Philadelphia that remain alive until Jesus coming in the air for them?
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And then lastly, is there a difference of reward due to preparation other than the timing of our departure? Those saints of Rev 4:4 and Rev 4:6 are redeemed by Jesus' blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation, and they shall be kings and priests over the earth.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
How does this differ from those caught up to God's throne out of great tribulation?
Rev 7:14 . . These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God (Not around the throne as those of Rev 4:4, or in the midst of the throne as them in Rev 4:6), and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

 

[Endtime_Survivors]

Well I certainly believe some Christians will be present on earth and enter the tribulation, and some being sealed unto God during that time as the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb according to Rev 14:4. But I also believe those with Jesus in Rev 4:4 & Rev 4:6 were prepared to be kept from the temptation to come upon all the world as Philadelphia is told in Rev 3:10. They are with Jesus face prior to the tribulation even beginning.

How were they prepared? Smyrna for instance in Rev 2:10 remained faithful unto death, and Philadelphia in Rev 3:10 was commended for faithfully keeping the word of God. The remainder of the Church was told to repent.
Paul said it this way concerning our preparation in:
2 Cor 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
2 Cor 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Now I ask how this applies to the order presented us in 1 Th 4:15-17? Does Smyrna represent those whose bodies sleep, and Philadelphia that remain alive until Jesus coming in the air for them?
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And then lastly, is there a difference of reward due to preparation other than the timing of our departure? Those saints of Rev 4:4 and Rev 4:6 are redeemed by Jesus' blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation, and they shall be kings and priests over the earth.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
How does this differ from those caught up to God's throne out of great tribulation?
Rev 7:14 . . These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God (Not around the throne as those of Rev 4:4, or in the midst of the throne as them in Rev 4:6), and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

As I understand it, it sounds like you're taking a pre-trib rapture stance. I disagree with that position, but I also think that position requires preparation. If the return or Jesus really could be a surprise return at any moment then all the more reason to be prepared for it.

However, I believe there is some pretty good evidence that Jesus' return won't be a surprise (like the pre-trib theory suggests) and that a good many people are not actually preparing because they believe they will be gone. Jesus and Paul both likened Jesus' return as a thief in the night for many, but that it should not take us as a thief. We'll have some warning if we're watching as Jesus told us to.

In some of his teachings about the end time he described a scenario in which people appeared to be panicking. In Matthew 24:21 he says there will be Great Tribulation (such as has never been nor ever will be seen again i.e. "The" Great Tribulation).

Then (in verses 23-27) he immediately follows that up with a scenario where false prophets claim that Jesus returned secretly to the "secret chambers" or out in the desert. Why would false prophets make those kind of claims if, as Jesus said, the world would have already seen his return like lightening across the whole sky (and millions of people suddenly disappeared as the theory suggests)? It sounds a lot like a situation where people who expected to be "kept from the temptation to come" suddenly find themselves in the thick of it. But rather than change their understanding to conform with reality, they will instead convince themselves that Jesus returned to some secret location which they only need reach in order to be raptured. It may sound unbelievable now but when people are desperate they suddenly find a whole new motivation to believe or do what they never thought they would in the past.

Jesus performed miracles in front of thousands of witnesses and people still found it difficult to believe or follow him. When it comes to religious pride and/or fear the human mind is completely capable of ignoring all reason.

How much better to believe in pre-trib rapture now (if that's what you want to believe), but to also actively prepare to face the Mark, the Beast and near-certain death for our faith just in case.

The irony of the pre-trib theory is that it tends to work against preparation in the sense that the more strongly one believes it, the less need they see for preparation. By the time the rapture doesn't happen and the trouble starts, they will be like the householder surprised by the thief.