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T.O.E and original sin..

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#1
How does the T.O.E explain original sin?

If it didn't happen like Genesis says...then what happened?
 
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#4
How does the T.O.E explain original sin?
You're still trying to make science cover for your problems understanding Genesis. No scientific theory can say anything about original sin. Science can't address the supernatural. Fortunately, scientists can.

If it didn't happen like Genesis says...then what happened?
You're the one who disapproves of the way Genesis says it happened. So it's your problem, not ours. If you're willing to accept Genesis as it's written, there are no difficulties.

Worth considering.
 
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#6
You seem to be confusing disagreement with ignorance. No scientific theory is going to help you with God. If faith won't do it, then nothing will.
 

Knotical

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#7
There can be no reconciliation between the Creation account in Genesis and any iteration of evolution, so it must be dismissed out of hand.

Science can't address the supernatural. Fortunately, scientists can.
That's an interesting contradiction, right there.
 
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#8
Edited

Imagine a young child in Sunday school asking:
If Adam and Ever were not real people who were created on day 6... and the act of disobedience in the garden didn't really happen....THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

We don't need any scientific theory to explain it Barbarian.
 
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#10
Barbarian....Wake up.....It has nothing to do with a SCIENTFIC THEORY. Got it. Nothing.

Imagine a young child in Sunday school asking:
If Adam and Ever were not real people who were created on day 6... and the act of disobedience in the garden didn't really happen....THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

We don't need any scientific theory to explain it Barbarian.
Hi Cygnus,
I haven't been following your thoughts --- sorry.
But you mentioned Children.
I've taught children.
They accept what you tell them. Till they're older (late teens) then they go to high school and college and start questioning everything because, as I'm sure you must know, they're told to QUESTION EVERYTHING.

So. Science affirms that there was a real first person. Perhaps in Africa.
Did the person make himself? Certainly not. Did the universe make itself? Certainly not.
Something CANNOT come from NOTHING.

I'm not asking you these questions --- I know you know. This is what you tell kids.

It's very believable that God is the first cause --- the Creator.
So, after God so kindly prepared the earth for us, He decided to make the fist person.

Now, if what you're saying is that you cannot accept this, it's OK. Nobody is going to be lost because they cannot accept something that has nothing to do with their salvation.

If the act of disobedience in the bible had never happened, we'd all still have the preternatural gifts that Adam and Eve had.
So? Now what?

No original sin. We'd still be in that garden, walking and talking to God. Like heaven.

I know this is simplistic and I'm not getting your entire question.
I don't really understand T.O.E. (theory of everything??)

What's wrong with Genesis 1 according to you?
 
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#11
Barbarian....Wake up.....It has nothing to do with a SCIENTFIC THEORY. Got it. Nothing.

Imagine a young child in Sunday school asking:
If Adam and Ever were not real people who were created on day 6... and the act of disobedience in the garden didn't really happen....THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

We don't need any scientific theory to explain it Barbarian.
Are you asking what causes evil?
 
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#12
Evolution falls under the umbrella of evolutionism in the same way that cardio-thoracic surgeon falls under the umbrella of physician......it is a very simple concept; surprising that some evolutionists have trouble grasping it.
Hi Cygnus,
I haven't been following your thoughts --- sorry.
But you mentioned Children.
I've taught children.
They accept what you tell them. Till they're older (late teens) then they go to high school and college and start questioning everything because, as I'm sure you must know, they're told to QUESTION EVERYTHING.

So. Science affirms that there was a real first person. Perhaps in Africa.
Did the person make himself? Certainly not. Did the universe make itself? Certainly not.
Something CANNOT come from NOTHING.

I'm not asking you these questions --- I know you know. This is what you tell kids.

It's very believable that God is the first cause --- the Creator.
So, after God so kindly prepared the earth for us, He decided to make the fist person.

Now, if what you're saying is that you cannot accept this, it's OK. Nobody is going to be lost because they cannot accept something that has nothing to do with their salvation.

If the act of disobedience in the bible had never happened, we'd all still have the preternatural gifts that Adam and Eve had.
So? Now what?

No original sin. We'd still be in that garden, walking and talking to God. Like heaven.

I know this is simplistic and I'm not getting your entire question.
I don't really understand T.O.E. (theory of everything??)

What's wrong with Genesis 1 according to you?
You said "
If the act of disobedience in the bible had never happened, we'd all still have the preternatural gifts that Adam and Eve had.
So? Now what?"

The Theo-Evo sect tells us there was no garden to walk and talk to God in.
 
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#14
Nope. I'm asking what causes us to sin.
I know the biblical answer...what I want to know is what is the Theo-Evo answer.
I'm not sure of what Theo-Evo is.
Theistic Evolutionists?

I will tell you this:
NOBODY KNOWS.

Who was there when God created the first man?
NO ONE.

So, we have to believe that God inspired man to write what HE wanted us to know about the beginning.
We do not know everything about it --- only what God believes is beneficial to us.
Is it a metaphore? Maybe.
Does that mean there wasn't a first man?
Does that mean he wasn't made perfectly?
Does that mean he didn't choose to obey satan?

Maybe it's a metaphonre in the sense that it's a LARGE scale story that does not take into account many small details that God didn't feel was important for us to know.

Also, I asked you if you wonder where evil comes from.
You said No.
Then you said you wonder what causes us to sin.
You want the theo-evo answer.

What makes you think THAT answer is any more valid than the one we already have?

I believe what you're wondering is, how come there's good and evil in the universe.
Where does the bad come from --- is it implanted somehow in our dna? Are we getting better or worse?
Does it have something to do with how we "evolved"?

What you're really asking is Where Does Evil Come From?
You don't agree?
 
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#15
Who was there when God created the first man?
NO ONE.
Hello calvin here
I like this proverb::
Pro 8:1 Does not wisdom call? Does not understanding raise her voice?
Pro 8:2 On the heights beside the way, at the crossroads she takes her stand;
Pro 8:3 beside the gates in front of the town, at the entrance of the portals she cries aloud:
Pro 8:4 “To you, O men, I call, and my cry is to the children of man.
Pro 8:5 O simple ones, learn prudence; O fools, learn sense.
Pro 8:6 Hear, for I will speak noble things, and from my lips will come what is right,
Pro 8:7 for my mouth will utter truth; wickedness is an abomination to my lips.
Pro 8:8 All the words of my mouth are righteous; there is nothing twisted or crooked in them.
Pro 8:9 They are all straight to him who understands, and right to those who find knowledge.
Pro 8:10 Take my instruction instead of silver, and knowledge rather than choice gold,
Pro 8:11 for wisdom is better than jewels, and all that you may desire cannot compare with her.
Pro 8:12 “I, wisdom, dwell with prudence, and I find knowledge and discretion.
Pro 8:13 The fear of the LORD is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate.
Pro 8:14 I have counsel and sound wisdom; I have insight; I have strength.
--------------------------------------


Pro 8:22 “The LORD possessed me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old.
Pro 8:24 When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water.
Pro 8:25 Before the mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth,
Pro 8:26 before he had made the earth with its fields, or the first of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,
Pro 8:28 when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep,
Pro 8:29 when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth,
Pro 8:30 then I was beside him, like a master workman, and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always,
Pro 8:31 rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the children of man.
--------------
Pro 8:34 Blessed is the one who listens to me, watching daily at my gates, waiting beside my doors.
Pro 8:35 For whoever finds me finds life and obtains favor from the LORD,
Pro 8:36 but he who fails to find me injures himself; all who hate me love death.”Esv

I think whatever the Lord did, however He did it, there was wisdom in His ways.
 
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#16
Hello calvin here
I like this proverb::
Pro 8:1 Does not wisdom call? Does not understanding raise her voice?
Pro 8:2 On the heights beside the way, at the crossroads she takes her stand;
Pro 8:3 beside the gates in front of the town, at the entrance of the portals she cries aloud:
Pro 8:4 “To you, O men, I call, and my cry is to the children of man.
Pro 8:5 O simple ones, learn prudence; O fools, learn sense.
Pro 8:6 Hear, for I will speak noble things, and from my lips will come what is right,
Pro 8:7 for my mouth will utter truth; wickedness is an abomination to my lips.
Pro 8:8 All the words of my mouth are righteous; there is nothing twisted or crooked in them.
Pro 8:9 They are all straight to him who understands, and right to those who find knowledge.
Pro 8:10 Take my instruction instead of silver, and knowledge rather than choice gold,
Pro 8:11 for wisdom is better than jewels, and all that you may desire cannot compare with her.
Pro 8:12 “I, wisdom, dwell with prudence, and I find knowledge and discretion.
Pro 8:13 The fear of the LORD is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate.
Pro 8:14 I have counsel and sound wisdom; I have insight; I have strength.
--------------------------------------


Pro 8:22 “The LORD possessed me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old.
Pro 8:24 When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water.
Pro 8:25 Before the mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth,
Pro 8:26 before he had made the earth with its fields, or the first of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,
Pro 8:28 when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep,
Pro 8:29 when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth,
Pro 8:30 then I was beside him, like a master workman, and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always,
Pro 8:31 rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the children of man.
--------------
Pro 8:34 Blessed is the one who listens to me, watching daily at my gates, waiting beside my doors.
Pro 8:35 For whoever finds me finds life and obtains favor from the LORD,
Pro 8:36 but he who fails to find me injures himself; all who hate me love death.”Esv

I think whatever the Lord did, however He did it, there was wisdom in His ways.
Yes. And this reminds me of Job 38:4-...

It starts out: "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth"
NASB
 
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#17
Our puny 'knowledge' is as insignificant as a grain of sand in the desert when compared against God. I guess that is why it always amazes me that humans believe that God did not mean what He said and said exactly what He means; we must somehow 'improve' upon His word.
 
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#18
I'm not sure of what Theo-Evo is.
Theistic Evolutionists?

I will tell you this:
NOBODY KNOWS.

Who was there when God created the first man?
NO ONE.

So, we have to believe that God inspired man to write what HE wanted us to know about the beginning.
We do not know everything about it --- only what God believes is beneficial to us.
Is it a metaphore? Maybe.
Does that mean there wasn't a first man?
Does that mean he wasn't made perfectly?
Does that mean he didn't choose to obey satan?

Maybe it's a metaphonre in the sense that it's a LARGE scale story that does not take into account many small details that God didn't feel was important for us to know.

Also, I asked you if you wonder where evil comes from.
You said No.
Then you said you wonder what causes us to sin.
You want the theo-evo answer.

What makes you think THAT answer is any more valid than the one we already have?

I believe what you're wondering is, how come there's good and evil in the universe.
Where does the bad come from --- is it implanted somehow in our dna? Are we getting better or worse?
Does it have something to do with how we "evolved"?

What you're really asking is Where Does Evil Come From?
You don't agree?
Yes, Theo-Evo is short for Thiestic-Evolutonism.
As far as why we sin...the Bible tells us why. Adam disobeyed God and ate from the tree. Adam fell and because of that one man all men now sin.
The ironic thing is, the Theo-Evos disagree with what the Bible says. That's why I asked the question.
 
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