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Talking back

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JohnDB

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#21
Not talk back in a mean way, but if you're accused of something you didn't do, then you'd do well to speak up --- but not enough to start a war.

Here's my thought.
YOU always be nice to your parents. They won't appreciate it right now because they, like you, are in the same forest.

When you grow older and this conflicts finally ends (and it will) they'll be remembering how unworthy they were with you and how nicely you took it and treated them well anyway.

Boy, that's the best revenge you'll have!!!

Kill them with kindness!

Sounds mean? It's actually the right thing to do.
Do you know what it means to turn the other cheek?

It doesn't mean to let people smack you around. Back in the era of Jesus, slapping someone was a great insult. Speaking of adults here. So Jesus said that if anyone slaps you on one cheek, give them also the other. Why? To show them that you don't care that they slapt you. To show them that you have higher morals than they do. And to show them that your master is God, and anything they do to you is of no consequence when you're friendly with the creator of the universe! This is actually more of an insult back to them, than if you slapped them back out of anger.

Think about it.
:thinking
Funny you should mention that one quote of Jesus'.
Remember when Paul got slapped for "disparaging" the High Priest or was it Ruler of the Synagogue?
That was the standard "punishment" for improper etiquette... AKA being rude.

When Jesus was saying that if someone feels like you are being rude and is offended that you should offer up both cheeks to be punished to take back the insult.
(The gospel message being offensive enough in it's own right)

The big IOW is that we shouldn't be rude in any respect. It's contrary to extending grace in our speech. Respecting Authority figures is commanded by Jesus because He was the one who placed them there. God sets up leaders or deposes them. It's not our job to do God's job or to advise Jesus of what we think of His leaders.
 
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#22
Either way respect is earned not something you give to people just based off of who they are to you.
Yes respect is earned. What are you doing to earn respect? Do you finish your chores? Doyou put your best to your school work? When mom/dad ask you a question or require something to be done do you reply respectfully?
 
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#23
Funny you should mention that one quote of Jesus'.
Remember when Paul got slapped for "disparaging" the High Priest or was it Ruler of the Synagogue?
That was the standard "punishment" for improper etiquette... AKA being rude.

When Jesus was saying that if someone feels like you are being rude and is offended that you should offer up both cheeks to be punished to take back the insult.
(The gospel message being offensive enough in it's own right)

The big IOW is that we shouldn't be rude in any respect. It's contrary to extending grace in our speech. Respecting Authority figures is commanded by Jesus because He was the one who placed them there. God sets up leaders or deposes them. It's not our job to do God's job or to advise Jesus of what we think of His leaders.
OK. I think we need to describe what respect is.

I respected Obama AS THE PRES of the U.S.
But I did NOT respect him as a person. I did not respect his beliefs, his methods, or anything about him.

We must respect our parents as PARENTS.
But no one can force me to respect anyone personally, except that person. And the resepect must be earned, it does not come cheap.

Does my husband respect me? Yes. As a wife, AND as a person because he learned many years ago that I deserve his respect.

It's like the heart with God.
I could respect someone with my mind,
but that does not move it into my heart unless they deserve it.

See? Do you agree?
 

JohnDB

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#24
OK. I think we need to describe what respect is.

I respected Obama AS THE PRES of the U.S.
But I did NOT respect him as a person. I did not respect his beliefs, his methods, or anything about him.

We must respect our parents as PARENTS.
But no one can force me to respect anyone personally, except that person. And the resepect must be earned, it does not come cheap.

Does my husband respect me? Yes. As a wife, AND as a person because he learned many years ago that I deserve his respect.

It's like the heart with God.
I could respect someone with my mind,
but that does not move it into my heart unless they deserve it.

See? Do you agree?
Nope...
Because God sets up leaders and deposes them.
There are many things about him that seem "anti-Christian" and against common sense. But God set him up as President for a reason...and as such I know that I don't know the future and what ultimate effect that God had in mind.
So I can honestly say that Obama was God's appointed president and believe that God did it for our benefit without hesitation. What exactly those reasons were are not known by me at this time. But I believe that God is Sovereign.
God also said not to disparage our leaders... because He doesn't like the back talk.
Where I sincerely doubt that I would ever go to Obama for Spiritual advice...he is the guy chosen for civil leadership. And I have faith that God knew what he was doing when He did it.
Now we have Trump...and the same applies to him as did Obama. I personally don't like either. But I think the same way about both men...God chose them.
 
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#25
Nope...
Because God sets up leaders and deposes them.
There are many things about him that seem "anti-Christian" and against common sense. But God set him up as President for a reason...and as such I know that I don't know the future and what ultimate effect that God had in mind.
So I can honestly say that Obama was God's appointed president and believe that God did it for our benefit without hesitation. What exactly those reasons were are not known by me at this time. But I believe that God is Sovereign.
God also said not to disparage our leaders... because He doesn't like the back talk.
Where I sincerely doubt that I would ever go to Obama for Spiritual advice...he is the guy chosen for civil leadership. And I have faith that God knew what he was doing when He did it.
Now we have Trump...and the same applies to him as did Obama. I personally don't like either. But I think the same way about both men...God chose them.
We're not understanding each other.
So we should end it here.
BTW, I do respect Trump because I've known him from NY.
I respect him as president and as a person.
He's no saint, but that's not even for me to determine.
His children are bright and intelligent and well formed.
He takes care of all of them.
His wives have been in good relationship with him even after leaving each other he has maintained a good rapport with them.

Do you like Obama better because he had only one wife?
He's a thief and a liar...corrupted and forces others to be the same.
I have NO respect for him now that he's no longer the president.
God put Hitler in power too?
 
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#26
Funny you should mention that one quote of Jesus'.
Remember when Paul got slapped for "disparaging" the High Priest or was it Ruler of the Synagogue?
That was the standard "punishment" for improper etiquette... AKA being rude.

When Jesus was saying that if someone feels like you are being rude and is offended that you should offer up both cheeks to be punished to take back the insult.
(The gospel message being offensive enough in it's own right)

The big IOW is that we shouldn't be rude in any respect. It's contrary to extending grace in our speech. Respecting Authority figures is commanded by Jesus because He was the one who placed them there. God sets up leaders or deposes them. It's not our job to do God's job or to advise Jesus of what we think of His leaders.
Your selection of the passage you used is profound for it was and is God that has set your parents over you to mold you into what God wants to use you for.

My parents were terrible and it tough to suffer them both. My birth-father denied me in Family Court and he and my mother and stepfather all drank to the point of being Drunks. And as much as I swore never to be like them, I also crawled into the bottle and at a time when alcohol was was the acceptable Drug of Choice.

But as I crept deeper into the Entertainment Circuit I was awarded a number of other drugs was smoking, snorting and shooting up and drinking whiskey all of the time. And until I learned to give respect to my mom and dad I did not get my head cleared out and move close to my LORD.

I fear the course you are trying to set.
 
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#27
JohnDB,
Xin Loi, that message is to Brock! Iĺl leave it stand, as it is, it is the perfect example of getting old.
 

JohnDB

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#28
We're not understanding each other.
So we should end it here.
BTW, I do respect Trump because I've known him from NY.
I respect him as president and as a person.
He's no saint, but that's not even for me to determine.
His children are bright and intelligent and well formed.
He takes care of all of them.
His wives have been in good relationship with him even after leaving each other he has maintained a good rapport with them.

Do you like Obama better because he had only one wife?
He's a thief and a liar...corrupted and forces others to be the same.
I have NO respect for him now that he's no longer the president.
God put Hitler in power too?
And Trump is a bully and hasn't followed/respected the rules of the Government he now wants to represent.

Neither man is a saint by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not going to say that one is better than the other. God obviously wanted both men from both sides of the ideology aisle.

My vote would have been "none of the above"...but God doesn't listen to me in an advisory capacity.

When it comes to Hitler I thought that it would be rather obvious...God chose him for vengeance. But at the same time many many good things came out of that war that has saved many more lives than were lost in it. From the meds that you currently take to the cell phone in your hand to the car that you drive to the groceries in your local grocery store...all were either directly or indirectly a result of the second world war.

Sure, I don't and haven't liked many leaders out there... from Obama to Hitler...they weren't my choices. But I know that I can't see the future. I don't like many aspects of our leaders with the job they do...but it's not my job to say anything about it.
 

JohnDB

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#29
Your selection of the passage you used is profound for it was and is God that has set your parents over you to mold you into what God wants to use you for.

My parents were terrible and it tough to suffer them both. My birth-father denied me in Family Court and he and my mother and stepfather all drank to the point of being Drunks. And as much as I swore never to be like them, I also crawled into the bottle and at a time when alcohol was was the acceptable Drug of Choice.

But as I crept deeper into the Entertainment Circuit I was awarded a number of other drugs was smoking, snorting and shooting up and drinking whiskey all of the time. And until I learned to give respect to my mom and dad I did not get my head cleared out and move close to my LORD.

I fear the course you are trying to set.
In the Old Testament a prophet describing a Potter making pottery that some pots are made for beauty and high visibility jobs and some are made chamber pots...
The broken pots are used to carve both.

The process difference is all about the clay. Some clay just breaks. Some clay won't make a wine carafe but will make chamber pots. The Potter always makes the best possible pots out of the clay He has to work with.

Me?
I'm glad that I'm not a broken pot.
 

WIP

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#30
Yes respect is earned. What are you doing to earn respect? Do you finish your chores? Doyou put your best to your school work? When mom/dad ask you a question or require something to be done do you reply respectfully?
I also believe that too often in our society today, we refuse to offer respect before the other party earns it in our point of view. And therein lies a problem with our society today. We don't respect our parents, law enforcement, government officials, etc. because we have it in our brain that they need to earn our respect before we will give it. Respect for authority has taken a back seat and it shows in our society.

I personally try my best to give benefit of doubt and respect all. For me, it isn't about others having to earn my respect but rather that others can earn my disrespect.

Even respect for God has gone by the wayside. When He doesn't fit our own personal definition we refuse to respect Him and His Supreme authority.
 
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#31
Parents-teenage relationships are difficult for most.

The teenager who has massive thought process not yet completely formed vx parents who are unaccustomed to the teenager growing up with more cognitive skills but yet still with "bad habits" is a recipe for arguments.

My son used to receive a report card and view it as a point of negotiation with his teachers in high school...and successfully negotiate higher grades every time with them. And not understand why I didn't like it.

Today when his job requirements are for "business conservative" clothing and he wants to wear something other than slacks, shirt, jacket and tie, I try to tell him that it isn't a negotiation and he doesn't believe me. He doesn't have the skills to succeed in the workplace. Sure, he works hard...but that isn't enough. It never was before and likely won't help today. And that brings out the contention.

And that's what parents are for. But often your young and adolescent adults dismiss the wisdom that they have to offer. When parents fall off the pedestal that their Children placed them on is not a reason to discount every thing they say.
Parents love their children and don't want to argue about everything with them. We are old and tired. They are young and ignorant of the world's mechanisms and especially don't have the logic skills needed to succeed in the areas that they wish.
Which in part starts the arguments.

Then add to the mix the fact that most people don't effectively communicate (especially when emotional)...and Viola...instant arguments that don't make sense.
So....
Talking back to parents will be counter productive to what the teenager needs and wants. But they don't have the cognitive skills to stop themselves at the same time.
So it's all the parents fault for being human and loving their children.

So what you're saying is that it's all the child's fault?
 
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#32
Personally, I do not believe it is ever justified. There were two things I learned early on that were forbidden. First, never lie to my parents. Second, never talk back to them. They demanded these two above all others and at times they backed up their authority as needed, if you know what I mean. Until the day they died, I never did either after my toddler lessons and I had great respect and admiration for them.

There were two things I learned early on that were forbidden. First, never lie to my parents. Second, never talk back to them.
Yeah your parents told you that for they're sake not yours.
 
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#33
So I should disrespect the president? My commanding officer, I should allow my men to talk back.i have obeyed plenty of officers,ncos I had no love for and a low opinion but they out ranked me.I refused to attend one of them retirement ceremony over how he acted partially

I didn't say you had to disrespect them straight to their face what I'm saying is that those who give disrespect don't deserve to be respected in any way shape or form.
 
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#34
I didn't say you had to disrespect them straight to their face what I'm saying is that those who give disrespect don't deserve to be respected in any way shape or form.
So you don't say it but act it out?
Think about it a person in authority whether has to obeyed,respected as a title. In my case used,sir,Sargeant, sergeant major,first sergeant. Mayor, etc.
 
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#35
So you don't say it but act it out?
Think about it a person in authority whether has to obeyed,respected as a title. In my case used,sir,Sargeant, sergeant major,first sergeant. Mayor, etc.
Are you asking me do I think someone deserves respect because of a title?
 
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#36
Are you asking me do I think someone deserves respect because of a title?
Yes,because you have to know you have to obey,pay respect judges,political persons whom you may not like,or are crooks to get what you need.

Case in point,the memorial in my area,and also donations from these .non profit work which in this area I don't do involves political contact, networking. The rich here can be rude,disrespecting.
 
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#37
Yes,because you have to know you have to obey,pay respect judges,political persons whom you may not like,or are crooks to get what you need.

Case in point,the memorial in my area,and also donations from these .non profit work which in this area I don't do involves political contact, networking. The rich here can be rude,disrespecting.

Yes and no like wondering said she respected Obama as a president but not as a person.
 
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#38
Yes and no like wondering said she respected Obama as a president but not as a person.
ok, off topic as this is something I have learned. the problem with politics is that we get only what the media reports on them. If I ran for office( I supported local candidates who I met and two I knew before they ran and still are friends with) that the paid political dirt machine will dig up stories and also some will create lies about me. I'm not saying that politicians don't have dirt, they do but keep that in mind when it comes to persons in office. the farther up the chain they appear to be as they say. I prefer to be fair, it helps that my uncles on both sides of the parents and also spectrum held office. neither would be in agreement with me. one has passed and has a street named after him. he was loved locally yet I bet when he ran , dirt was slung.
 
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#39
I didn't say you had to disrespect them straight to their face what I'm saying is that those who give disrespect don't deserve to be respected in any way shape or form.
Hey Brock, how do your folks disrespect you?
 
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#40
Are you asking me do I think someone deserves respect because of a title?
Brother, that is the way this world works. Try being disrespectful to an Officer of the Law and after you get the cuffs write down how long how long it took him to arrest you ajd put you in Jubie. Write it down because you will aways d well to remember the experience. Oh yeah, not ragging on you but guess who are the only people that can get you out of The Can?
 
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