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Tankless Water Heaters

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Knotical

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This question is for you DIY gurus. I am buying a new to me house that has a regular 40 gallon water heater. It is most likely nearing the end of its life and I will of course be looking to replace it. It is located in a small closet in the laundry room which is an interior room of the house. I would rather replace it with a tankless one, but need to know if it is even possible in the current location.

Thoughts? Suggestions?
 
Good capacity tankless tend to be gas. If your current water heater is electric, it will be complicated to pipe in gas and vent the exhaust. Otherwise, it should be doable. Might have to replace the current gas line with a larger one, as tankless need additional energy when running. Check venting capacity too. There are electric tankless, but they are best for limited capacity use. Might have to upgrade wiring for them, as they can use a lot of power when running. More than tank heaters.

If in doubt, have a pro do it. They are dangerous if not installed correctly.

They may require some maintenance such as cleaning the inlet filter, and descaling the unit. More complicated than just draining sediment from the bottom of a tank every so often.
 
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The current one is gas, so it is plumbed for that. One thing I am concerned about is venting. There is the traditional chimney stack going through the roof, but I am unsure if that is sufficient.

Really, what I am wondering is if this should be installed on an outside wall. This will be a bit of an undertaking as the laundry room is an interior room, and between that and the outside of the house is a bathroom. We will eventually want to remodel that area of the house to convert the half bath into a full bath by installing a shower. I am thinking that in order to go tankless I may want to swap the rooms around and possibly add a little space to both. Right now the laundry room is pretty cramped.

Right now the quick and simple solution is to just change out the existing one with one the same capacity, though I may just knock out one of the walls in that closet. The water heater really should have a pan underneath it, but the closet is too small to install one right now.
 
Tankless water heaters are extremely efficient.
Most of the ones I have installed have been at the sink and electric. No hot water line is needed.

Recirculation systems are also efficient. But will require more plumbing and the pump.

But actually...the cheapest and fairly efficient way to go (if the tank isn't leaking) is replacing the whole silanoid and burner system valves.

Or just replacing the whole thing with a new one.
Good gas water heaters last a really long time.
 
JohnDB, you just sparked an interesting idea. Why do we bother having a single massive tank stored somewhere in the house to handle all the hot water when we could just have smaller units under each sink.

Would it be possible to setup the same kind of thing for a bath/shower?
 
JohnDB, you just sparked an interesting idea. Why do we bother having a single massive tank stored somewhere in the house to handle all the hot water when we could just have smaller units under each sink.

Would it be possible to setup the same kind of thing for a bath/shower?
Yes and I have. Occasionally I do a shower but most offices and industrial plants don't have them.
You will need 208/240 and @ 20-30Amps to operate each one in an electric panel.
A bit of plumbing is is usually needed as the heaters have a "flow switch" meaning that as soon as water starts flowing the thing turns on and heats water. There are a bunch of the lower voltage and wattage ones out there for cheaper...but you get what you pay for.

The elements do burn out in them and switches go bad...but it's smaller and cheaper and easier to replace the parts than a whole unit for a house. But enough tankless units to do every sink and shower in a house is more expensive than a single water heater of the 40-50 gallon variety.
The electric bill makes it cheaper and more efficient in the long run. (Less water and hot water is wasted)

But usually these sorts of savings are best had during construction. (Less copper pipe is used because you don't run a hot water line anywhere) and the tankless units costs are offset by the lower installation costs of not running the pipe. But the electricial installation costs rise a bit due to wire and panel needs.

My 2 bedroom 2 ba apartment would need 5 tankless units and 10 breaker spaces in the electricial panel. (Kitchen doing double duty for the dishwasher)
 
It would be quite the DIY project to install a tankless at each sink and shower. Plumbing and electrical. Much easier and cheaper to just buy a new tank.

Still, if you are going to extensively remodel anyway... An outside tankless might give you the most space inside, if the winters are relatively mild there. Something that fits under the sinks might be convenient, if you don't need to store stuff there. I don't know how cramped your new house is right now, and whether you would be happy keeping the current arrangement.

You could also add an addition onto the house, if you really need the space.
 
Congratulations on the purchase of a new home BTW. (Forgot to say that earlier)

What Michael74 said above is true. You are going to be doing a lot of stuff to try and replumb and rewire the house. Lots of walls and possibly ceilings will have to be accessed. (Single floor with crawl space is easiest)

But you have to determine if the cost is going to come back to you.

The biggest things to purchase well for houses are usually the appliances that you use regularly. A nice fridge and a great stove are precious to me. For those I will spend great money (but Not stupid amounts) for good functional items. Having my refrigerator text or email me that we are out of ice cream isn't my idea of a good time. Nor is my texting to the stove top to start cooking my bacon. These things are kinda creepy IMHO. (Even though I do know how to wire this up)

Since I moved out of my house into an apartment I miss my stove and refrigerator the most. I use the crummy ones in the apartment every day like I did in the house where I had great ones that were work horses. These anemic dogs are a pain to work with. Fridge is too small and the oven heat isn't even and isn't convection. The electric burners aren't instant like my gas stove. *Sigh*

Good shower heads in the shower, great lighting in the bathroom and front porch...
HDMI cables and power put up for the wall mounted television...these things are going to do more for the average home owner than anything. Electrical plugs in convenient locations inside and outside (Christmas lights) are huge.
 
Some of the things I have planned after we move in is to run ethernet cable so I won't have to use wifi all over the place. The crawl space under the house (it is pier and beam) is rather cramped, so I will need to dig out some of the soil under there to make it more accessible. I also need to get some vents going under the house as there are none at the moment to allow air flow. For some reason when the current owners had the siding redone a year or more ago, whoever did the job did not install actual vents, they just attached the vent covers to the siding in a couple spots to make it look like there are actual vents. I will have to take a closer look at the water heater to see what kind of warranty it has, but I do know it was installed in 2012, so I am confident it is at least at the near side of the end of its life.

I like tankless water heaters as they are more efficient, but I may need to at least install a recirc pump underneath the farthest fixture so that waiting for the hot water to get there won't be a problem.
 
Some of the things I have planned after we move in is to run ethernet cable so I won't have to use wifi all over the place. The crawl space under the house (it is pier and beam) is rather cramped, so I will need to dig out some of the soil under there to make it more accessible. I also need to get some vents going under the house as there are none at the moment to allow air flow. For some reason when the current owners had the siding redone a year or more ago, whoever did the job did not install actual vents, they just attached the vent covers to the siding in a couple spots to make it look like there are actual vents. I will have to take a closer look at the water heater to see what kind of warranty it has, but I do know it was installed in 2012, so I am confident it is at least at the near side of the end of its life.

I like tankless water heaters as they are more efficient, but I may need to at least install a recirc pump underneath the farthest fixture so that waiting for the hot water to get there won't be a problem.
Yeah...just a bit of running a new return line back to the water heater. You will have to insulate the lines as well as buy a water heater that works with a recirculation pump. (Or just put a "T" in the line after the cold water cutoff)
Be sure to label the lines.
I hate plumbing so I use flex lines on both sides and cutoff's on both sides. Because if I have to do something with the hot water I don't have to kill the water to the whole house.
Be sure to fill a new hwh completely and the return lines before starting it up or you won't be happy with the results.
 
Yeah...just a bit of running a new return line back to the water heater. You will have to insulate the lines as well as buy a water heater that works with a recirculation pump. (Or just put a "T" in the line after the cold water cutoff)
Be sure to label the lines.
I hate plumbing so I use flex lines on both sides and cutoff's on both sides. Because if I have to do something with the hot water I don't have to kill the water to the whole house.
Be sure to fill a new hwh completely and the return lines before starting it up or you won't be happy with the results.
Interesting. I have seen where you use the cold water line from that farthest fixture as the return line, you just either put a check valve between the cold and hot under the sink, or there are recirc pumps that will have that built in. It senses the temperature of the water and will shut off as soon as it reaches the right temp. No additional lines need to be run.
 
Interesting. I have seen where you use the cold water line from that farthest fixture as the return line, you just either put a check valve between the cold and hot under the sink, or there are recirc pumps that will have that built in. It senses the temperature of the water and will shut off as soon as it reaches the right temp. No additional lines need to be run.
Recirc pumps keep the hot water in the lines hot all the way out to the farhest fixture. They keep the water in the lines hot as it is constantly moving the water through the lines through the heater.
So hot water is instantly available and a lower temperature is needed at the heater but up to twice the water is heated. It works best in cold weather climates as the small amount of heat lost through the insulation is useful for heating under the house.
 
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