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The 144,000 and the current Christian population in Israel

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#1
I was interested in knowing what the current population of Christians would be in the nation of Israel. In Dec 2016, the Christian population was about 170,000. Considering the fact that some of these are Gentile Christians, that could be pretty close to the 144,000 figure given in the book of Revelation, 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes.

I thought it was interesting..
 
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#2
I was interested in knowing what the current population of Christians would be in the nation of Israel. In Dec 2016, the Christian population was about 170,000. Considering the fact that some of these are Gentile Christians, that could be pretty close to the 144,000 figure given in the book of Revelation, 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes.

I thought it was interesting..
It might be interesting to some but we are no at the first Rapture yet.
 
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#3
I know, but it serves as an indicator of how close the rapture could be. It may be useful in apologetics to convince a skeptic. That's more why I think it's interesting.
 
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#4
I was interested in knowing what the current population of Christians would be in the nation of Israel. In Dec 2016, the Christian population was about 170,000. Considering the fact that some of these are Gentile Christians, that could be pretty close to the 144,000 figure given in the book of Revelation, 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes.
I thought it was interesting..
Hi Brother DougK.
I’ll just give my belief as to the 144,000, and the manner of their being caught up unto Jesus.

We read in Revelation where John describes himself being shown different segments of the Church being caught up at different times.
They are the 24 elders & the 4 beasts, or living ones shown him in Rev 4:4 & Rev 4:6.
Next are the Great Multitude of Rev 7:9.
Last are the 144,000 of Rev 14:1

Each rapture or being caught up group will occur the same: the dead in Christ first (1 Thes 4:16), and then we who remain alive (1 Thes 4:17). To me this indicates only a limited amount of the 144,000 if that is their actual number need be alive in present day Israel. You might find the fact interesting that when the 144,000 stand before the throne in Rev 14:3, the 4 beasts and the 24 elders are already there.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
 
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#5
I know, but it serves as an indicator of how close the rapture could be. It may be useful in apologetics to convince a skeptic. That's more why I think it's interesting.
Not really, the 144,000 are saved of the 12 Tribes of Israel, after the two witnesses appear and I am not at all convinced they can appear before or after the Rapture. We have been alerted to be ready, every day because, on God's time scale, Eternal, the second advent was only two days away and it has been about two of God's days.
 
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for_his_glory

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#7
Revelation 7:1-8
John is given another vision after these things, meaning after the first six seals that are revealed to him. He now sees four angels standing on the four corners of the earth holding the four winds of the earth in order that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree until Gods servants were sealed.

These servants are the generational 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel, except for the tribe of Dan and Ephraim as they fell to idol worship and allowed God to be removed from them, Judges 18:30; 1 Kings12:25-33. To keep it twelve tribes since Dan and Ephraim are not mentioned in vs. 4-8 the tribe of Joseph appears twice, once under his own name and once under the name of his son Issachar/Manasseh. Judah is mentioned first as Messiah was to come from the lineage of David.

This is the importance of the 144,000 of the house of Israel and their generations unto the end of days. There were those of the old covenant that were faithful to God in keeping all his commandments and repented of their idol worshiping. Their generations who have also come back to Gods grace that are still alive during the seven trumpet sounds will continue to preach to the Jews as it was with the twelve disciples in Matthew 10:6. The generations of the 144,000 that are still alive have the seal of God on them which are the seven Spirits of God as they will have to endure much persecution until the end of days before the return of Jesus.
(Seven Spirits of God are found in Isaiah 11:2 and mentioned in Rev 1:4.
Spirit of the Lord, wisdom, understanding, counsel, power, knowledge and fear/respect of the Lord.)
 
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#8
I am sorry, FHG, but I càn not see your conclusion from Judges 18:30 &. 1Kings 12:25-33. I just don't get there, can you help?
 
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#9
I was interested in knowing what the current population of Christians would be in the nation of Israel. In Dec 2016, the Christian population was about 170,000. Considering the fact that some of these are Gentile Christians, that could be pretty close to the 144,000 figure given in the book of Revelation, 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes.

I thought it was interesting..
When the time comes, God will choose and anoint (seal) The 144,000. They will not do it of their own power. (Rev. 7:3-4)
 

for_his_glory

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#10
I am sorry, FHG, but I càn not see your conclusion from Judges 18:30 &. 1Kings 12:25-33. I just don't get there, can you help?
In Genesis 49:1, 16, 17 Jacob gathers all his sons and then tells them what will befall them in the last days. Jacob calls Dan a serpent by the way and an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward. This prophecy of Jacob was fulfilled when the tribe of Dan fell to idol worshipping as they made graven images and bowed down to them, Judges 18:30; 1 Kings 12:25-33. This is the same with the tribe of Ephraim as they did not keep the covenant of God as they continued to sin against Him and pursued idols, Hosea 5:9, 11;Psalms 78:9-17, 65-67.
 
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#11
In Genesis 49:1, 16, 17 Jacob gathers all his sons and then tells them what will befall them in the last days. Jacob calls Dan a serpent by the way and an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward. This prophecy of Jacob was fulfilled when the tribe of Dan fell to idol worshipping as they made graven images and bowed down to them, Judges 18:30; 1 Kings 12:25-33. This is the same with the tribe of Ephraim as they did not keep the covenant of God as they continued to sin against Him and pursued idols, Hosea 5:9, 11;Psalms 78:9-17, 65-67.
Thank you, I see now.
 
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#13
I like how they used two numbers taken from Babylonian astronomy texts on eclipse mathematics for the book of Revelation

666 and 144,000

Good stuff

:)
 
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#15
Good question, I guess it depends on if you think John was the sole author of Revelation

By my study, the author/s of Revelation were well-schooled in the same mathematical astronomy that a High Priest would have been trained in ( Those poor priest-less Sanhedrin, lol ), which Abraham himself was said to have studied prior to being called out of Ur, Babylon ( Where Chaldean priests were renowned mathematical astronomers, most well known for detailing and recording eclipse cycles, the Saros in particular )

It's said that John was in exile on Patmos, but that more accurately sounds like the " keritot " ( Excision - Cutting off ) of the High priest as defined in the Kodashim, dealing with the Temple and the items within it ( 7th tractate in the Kodashim ) which is really just the tradition known as " bit meseri " ( House of detention ) of earlier priests

Being that a High Priest was always revealed " hidden knowledge " by a tutelary deity, in Judaism it was the Holy Spirit which indwelt prophets ( Ruach Hakodesh as opposed to ruach ), so " John ", whoever he was, was likely part of this ancient line of priests who also functioned as the court astronomer, and dating back to the Sumerian High Priest - king who functioned as chief astronomer as the " head gardener " in the " Garden of the Gods "

This is the reason that the mathematical value of a " seal " ( 400 ) itself is derived from the same set of numbers ( 666 and 144,000 ), because it gives you a dimensionless number describing the size ratio between the Sun and Moon ( 400% ) that produces the eclipse during syzygy
 

for_his_glory

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#16
Good question, I guess it depends on if you think John was the sole author of Revelation

By my study, the author/s of Revelation were well-schooled in the same mathematical astronomy that a High Priest would have been trained in ( Those poor priest-less Sanhedrin, lol ), which Abraham himself was said to have studied prior to being called out of Ur, Babylon ( Where Chaldean priests were renowned mathematical astronomers, most well known for detailing and recording eclipse cycles, the Saros in particular )

It's said that John was in exile on Patmos, but that more accurately sounds like the " keritot " ( Excision - Cutting off ) of the High priest as defined in the Kodashim, dealing with the Temple and the items within it ( 7th tractate in the Kodashim ) which is really just the tradition known as " bit meseri " ( House of detention ) of earlier priests

Being that a High Priest was always revealed " hidden knowledge " by a tutelary deity, in Judaism it was the Holy Spirit which indwelt prophets ( Ruach Hakodesh as opposed to ruach ), so " John ", whoever he was, was likely part of this ancient line of priests who also functioned as the court astronomer, and dating back to the Sumerian High Priest - king who functioned as chief astronomer as the " head gardener " in the " Garden of the Gods "

This is the reason that the mathematical value of a " seal " ( 400 ) itself is derived from the same set of numbers ( 666 and 144,000 ), because it gives you a dimensionless number describing the size ratio between the Sun and Moon ( 400% ) that produces the eclipse during syzygy
Where does your reasoning come from?
 
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#17
Good question, I guess it depends on if you think John was the sole author of Revelation
Actually, I believe that Jesus was the sole author of Revelation.....it is, after all, called the Revelation of Jesus Christ. John was simply His instrument recording only what he saw and heard......though he did leave out some upon command.
By my study, the author/s of Revelation were well-schooled in the same mathematical astronomy that a High Priest would have been trained in ( Those poor priest-less Sanhedrin, lol ), which Abraham himself was said to have studied prior to being called out of Ur, Babylon ( Where Chaldean priests were renowned mathematical astronomers, most well known for detailing and recording eclipse cycles, the Saros in particular )

It's said that John was in exile on Patmos, but that more accurately sounds like the " keritot " ( Excision - Cutting off ) of the High priest as defined in the Kodashim, dealing with the Temple and the items within it ( 7th tractate in the Kodashim ) which is really just the tradition known as " bit meseri " ( House of detention ) of earlier priests

Being that a High Priest was always revealed " hidden knowledge " by a tutelary deity, in Judaism it was the Holy Spirit which indwelt prophets ( Ruach Hakodesh as opposed to ruach ), so " John ", whoever he was, was likely part of this ancient line of priests who also functioned as the court astronomer, and dating back to the Sumerian High Priest - king who functioned as chief astronomer as the " head gardener " in the " Garden of the Gods "

This is the reason that the mathematical value of a " seal " ( 400 ) itself is derived from the same set of numbers ( 666 and 144,000 ), because it gives you a dimensionless number describing the size ratio between the Sun and Moon ( 400% ) that produces the eclipse during syzygy
John was no more a 'high priest' than anyone here.....I believe he would have said he was a fisherman, both literally and figuratively and most likely without education enough to have understood anything about Babylonian astronomy.
 
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#18
Reasoning ?

Don't think I understand what you're asking

Did you mean " How did you arrive at your particular exegesis ? "
 
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#19
Actually, I believe that Jesus was the sole author of Revelation.....it is, after all, called the Revelation of Jesus Christ. John was simply His instrument recording only what he saw and heard......though he did leave out some upon command.

John was no more a 'high priest' than anyone here.....I believe he would have said he was a fisherman, both literally and figuratively and most likely without education enough to have understood anything about Babylonian astronomy.

Interesting

I would have to disagree, primarily for the reason that Revelation quotes, word for word, Babylonian astronomy texts on Venus

In fact, it uses rather standard phrasing found in just about any Babylonian " Omen " text ( Eclipses / signs in the sky ) , which themselves preserve Sumerian writing written in Akkadian cuneiform

But that much is plainly obvious to any student of Mesopotamian literature

:)
 
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#20
Also, saying that " nobody here is a high priest " seems to miss what's stated in verses like Revelation 1:6 as well as the numerous other associated verses found on any online Bible study site

But's that just my opinion